DHS ReDo (August 2014)

[omurice]

Hope they don't do an X-Wing spinner at DHS, there's already at least 4 spinners on property. Unless it's my idea -
Boba Fett's Bounty Hunter Spin: "Race through the stars with your favorite bounty hunters. Strap in for a wild ride as you capture and kill rebel scum! No height requirement"

 

[omurice]

I hate to quote Mongello, but he's right when it comes to this, every attraction is someone's favorite. It sucks when your favorite gets replaced. What I hate is when it's replaced with something inferior.

There are many issues with the choice of Maelstrom/Norway. First and foremost, it is making a leap that sets a dangerous precedent, a fictitious land (Arendele) will be a part of a real land (Norway). I'm not going to pretend that Maelstrom was 100% serious, (remember, there are trolls in the attraction) but it was more representative of the country than the concepts behind Frozen are. It would be like putting the Mine Train or Snow White's Scary Adventures in the Germany pavilion. Yes, a case could be made that it fits but it's not that solid of an argument.

World Showcase is meant to be a romanticized version of the individual countries. The moment you deviate from that it's cheapened.

The other point that should not be ignored is the popularity of the franchise being integrated. Frozen is immensely popular, and they have hour long waits for meet and greets, merchandise, sing alongs and fireworks that showcase that popularity. Yes, it will taper off, but if Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast garner valuable Fantasyland real estate, so too should Frozen. Shoe horning the attraction into an existing area is a short sighted idea. The capacity of Maelstrom is also very low. Sure, it's not in the most popular land in the most popular theme park in the world, but unless something is done to address the capacity issues that ride will instantly become the longest wait in the parks. The good news is, it might allow them to get rid of the Fastpass+ tiers at Epcot when combined with a 3rd Soarin' theater.

The biggest problem that I see with turning Maelstrom into Frozen - the capacity is about 900 per hour.
The ride is short, and it has a fairly low capacity. That's a problem that cannot be overcome if they don't do some combination of these four things : 1) entirely change the load area, 2) completely re-imagine the ride system, 3) expand the footprint of the ride building to make the ride longer, 4) expand the hours for World Showcase (or at least Norway) beyond 10 hours per day.
All but one of those is not an easy fix.

If 60,000 people a day show up to see the new ride, about 51,000 people are going to be sorely disappointed when they cannot get on the new ride because 10 hours times 900 per hour is 9,000 people per day.


The most popular animated film in 20 years (possibly ever), the 5th biggest grossing film of all time, and the plan is to refurb a small attraction that lets 9,000 per day in?

 

[twebber55]

The biggest problem that I see with turning Maelstrom into Frozen - the capacity is about 900 per hour.
The ride is short, and it has a fairly low capacity. That's a problem that cannot be overcome if they don't do some combination of these four things : 1) entirely change the load area, 2) completely re-imagine the ride system, 3) expand the footprint of the ride building to make the ride longer, 4) expand the hours for World Showcase (or at least Norway) beyond 10 hours per day.
All but one of those is not an easy fix.

If 60,000 people a day show up to see the new ride, about 51,000 people are going to be sorely disappointed when they cannot get on the new ride because 10 hours times 900 per hour is 9,000 people per day.


The most popular animated film in 20 years (possibly ever), the 5th biggest grossing film of all time, and the plan is to refurb a small attraction that lets 9,000 per day in?

yeah if the line is over 20 minutes I wont be riding it

 

[Buried20KLeague]

The number that was out there was $1.2 billion, but that did not include World of Color. Was it over $2?

The phrase I remembered seeing routinely was "$2 billion makeover". ?? Maybe I'm off on that.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The biggest problem that I see with turning Maelstrom into Frozen - the capacity is about 900 per hour.
The ride is short, and it has a fairly low capacity. That's a problem that cannot be overcome if they don't do some combination of these four things : 1) entirely change the load area, 2) completely re-imagine the ride system, 3) expand the footprint of the ride building to make the ride longer, 4) expand the hours for World Showcase (or at least Norway) beyond 10 hours per day.
All but one of those is not an easy fix.

If 60,000 people a day show up to see the new ride, about 51,000 people are going to be sorely disappointed when they cannot get on the new ride because 10 hours times 900 per hour is 9,000 people per day.


The most popular animated film in 20 years (possibly ever), the 5th biggest grossing film of all time, and the plan is to refurb a small attraction that lets 9,000 per day in?

I knew it as 1000, but even still your point is well taken. I suspect it would be open 12 hours a day with Akershus also open at 9. The load area should be reconfigured, but I don't know if that's the bottleneck for the attraction. There are track switches and a lift hill in the attraction, both of which could be problems. Having said that, if they eliminate the unload area and make it a dual load area, it would at least create the option of another scene.

 

[NoChesterHester]

So much of the DCA budget went to a big rebuild of the park itself. Studios is a pretty park (for the most part) and just needs some focused effort.

 

[NoChesterHester]

So much of the DCA budget went to a big rebuild of the park itself. Studios is a pretty park (for the most part) and just needs some focused effort.

 

[sWANNISAX]

I was Definately referring to the weaver aa. It's horrible. The aliens are fine. Even replacing her with another alien would be better

 

[lazyboy97o]

The phrase I remembered seeing routinely was "$2 billion makeover". ?? Maybe I'm off on that.

Disney sort of originally pushed a number around $1.7 billion that also included Phase 2. People also tended to lump in World of Color and Toy Story Midway Mania!, which were not part of the project. Numbers also seem to grow inside Disney and inside the Disney fan community.

 

[FigmentJedi]

The biggest problem that I see with turning Maelstrom into Frozen - the capacity is about 900 per hour.
The ride is short, and it has a fairly low capacity. That's a problem that cannot be overcome if they don't do some combination of these four things : 1) entirely change the load area, 2) completely re-imagine the ride system, 3) expand the footprint of the ride building to make the ride longer, 4) expand the hours for World Showcase (or at least Norway) beyond 10 hours per day.
All but one of those is not an easy fix.

If 60,000 people a day show up to see the new ride, about 51,000 people are going to be sorely disappointed when they cannot get on the new ride because 10 hours times 900 per hour is 9,000 people per day.


The most popular animated film in 20 years (possibly ever), the 5th biggest grossing film of all time, and the plan is to refurb a small attraction that lets 9,000 per day in?

World Showcase becoming a 9-9 zone again instead of the half-day stuff would be wonderful.

 

[Gabe1]

I have heard on this site that he does have some inside information. The difference is unlike many insiders who wait to see if something is actually going to happen he takes anything he hears as fact and says it's on it's way rather than waiting. Which can be problematic because plans change quite often.

Would anyone mind sharing if this Jim Hill is any sort of credible? Has he ever broke a rumor(s) which came to life?

This would be nice for the unaware, like myself.

Disney AoA resort. He ran with AoA as suites and that the Phase II project was dead and a new type of resort was going to be built instead. There were all sorts of rotten tomatoes thrown at Hill for that one early on. And then months and months later it was leaked to the balance of those who are often in the know...all forgetting Hill had broke AoA prior.

He seems to have sources that have deeper details than others with inside contacts at times. I've followed him a very long time and he had more creditable info in the earlier years of Iger. I'm not sure if that is more his sources are fewer or if it that Iger thing...project on, project pulled and repeat. My gut is it is more the Iger thing, that man is great at slicing and dicing a budget to hell in a single meeting.

 

[roj2323]

Well first off this isn't really "my plan" this is just a collection of what seem to be the most likely Star Wars land rumors that have been circulating around for the past few years, and I'm assuming they would relocate the restrooms in between Star Tours and the theater if the theater became the new home of the Jedi Training show. Second I have heard that the Backlot Express would be getting transformed into a Star Wars Themed restaurant not the ABC Commissary, and third the backstage area in red was earmarked to be part of the Star Wars expansion initially, and since the parades in DHS are being phased out that area and the parade float building no long have any purpose. Hope that clears things up for you

I can assure you disney would not purposely shoot themselves in the foot, they will want to maintain a parade option. They might move the gate but there will be one in that area no matter what they do. There are also issues with SR access at night, trash removal, and other seemingly minor details which are actually a big deal. One example is Out Door Foods has all of their refreshment / ice-cream freezers and storage in addition to ice makers behind BLX.

 

[Ranch Dressing]

Enough with the ignorant hate towards Iger.He is not spending in Florida compared to other parks but he has done incredible things for the long term growth of the company. The man is a visionary, his successor has a huge hole to dig out from.

And I'm no Disney fanboi, half my family works for Universal Orlando. Facts are facts.

 

[EpcoTim]

his successor has a huge hole to dig out from.

Facts are facts.

You got that right.

 

[Ignohippo]

For me, Great Movie Ride is getting harder and harder to ride. The script is downright painful, several scenes are irrelevant, audio in the scenes where the driver interacts with the audience is awful, and the montage at the end needs to be upgraded both in content and image quality. I think they could easily start with the scenes that either don't work correctly or are no longer relevant. For me these include:

• Footlight Parade (it's not going to be fixed, replace it)
• The Underworld (Probably not the most relevant option)
• Alien (It could stay with an upgrade, but otherwise a new franchise could fit)
• Tarzan (Remove for relevance)
• Generic Horror section (pick a movie or remove it)
  
• Indiana Jones and the Hernia Operation (Either new scene or new franchise)
• Fantasia (Put in last minute 25 years ago, large are that could be replaced)

Considering all that, it would likely be easier to start fresh.

I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to think the Ratatouille ride tech could be coming to the GMR building. Whether it's a completely new version of GMR or something completely new remains to be seen.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Well for starters, 90% of the stuff that Jim Hill mentioned on the most recent Unofficial Guide's Disney Dish, he (or others) have mentioned previously. I track rumors on my site. This is what Jim said on the Sunday show and in paranthesis are when and where the rumor was first heard according to what I have:
Hollywood Studios

• $700 Million investment (June 4, 2013 - Mice Age said DHS changes could be $1 billion+ or a more modest #)
  
• A major overhaul to the park is expected. This will include a selection of new smaller attractions (B/C-ticket level attractions) as well as other more substantial changes and additions. This will also include the removal of any of the former movie making components/history of the park. The timeline for major construction will wait until components of the Animal Kingdom/Avatar changes are on line. (Similar concepts mentioned int he same June 4, 2013 Mice Age article)

Not exactly ground breaking..... Agreed in the fact that construction wont start until 16/17.

• Star Wars is a major component of this, but it will take several years to do. Construction could begin on Star Wars content as soon as January. It will be the first component of the Hollywood Studios Changes brought on line.(Again, first really mentioned in June 4th, MiceAge article)
  • Echo Lake will become Tatooine (July 1, 2013 - Jim Hill on Disney Dish Podcast)
    
  • Jedi Training Academy is expected to move into the Sounds Dangerous theater. (Hard to tell, but July 1, 2013 Disney Dish seems accurate)
    
  • A direct road to Star Tours is expected to be built from Hollywood Boulevard directly to Star Tours. It will be a diagonal street from the Hollywood & Vine area to Star Tours. Side streets will come off this area. It is expected that RFID technology will be used for guests to "Use the Force" as they interact with the environment. (this particular detail is somewhat new, but interactive components were mentioned previously, I'm just not sure when).
    
  • Hollywood & Vine is expected to remain. (New)
    
  • Indiana Jones is expected to remain for the short term because it is booked for corporate events through 2018. (New)
    
  • X-Wing Spinner attraction. Vehicles can move up and down and wings can open and close. (First mentioned by Hill July 1, 2013)
    
  • Mos Eisley Cantina (Hard to tell what was fanboy wish/actual rumor, but June 13, 2013 by Robert Niles seems to be the first definitive source)

These blue sky concepts seem to change with the wind. I cant see this staying the same until 16/17

• The Great Movie Ride is expected to close, but it will be among the last elements that change. It is also booked through 2017 for corporate events. (New, previous rumors of refurbishments seem to be different rumors)

And exactly where do they expect to make up park capacity without a height restriction? Yes GMR needs help BUT...

• The Christmas lights will remain, but it may be rebranded to the Great Christmas Light Fight. They may be taking the Osborne name off the show and have considered a Frozen theme. They could also be looking at other names in focus groups (first mentioned by Jim Hill Disney Dish on December 23, 2013).

Heard something similar this week. No changes for this year.

• Ride system used in Ratatouille ride in France will find it's way to Hollywood Studios, but the theme has not been determined. (New)

Whaaaaaaa?

• Beauty and the Beast may remain because a theatrical show is in the works for Broadway. However, there have been discussions about a Tangled themed show. (September 24, 2012 - @drew81 posts rumor about Tangled replacing Beauty and the Beast)

Thats because Drew is cool like that.

• Frozen Sing a Long could potentially move to The American Idol Experience theater. (This was discussed on these boards recently, this podcast seemed to be the first place to sort of go on the record)

Ive heard conflicting Info here. I'm actually gonna go with 'lil Jimmy here.

Epcot

• As expected, Maelstrom will be closing on September 28th. This will be to change the attraction over to a Frozen themed attraction. The time frame for completion is 18 months with an expected opening date of Spring 2016. (December 23, 2013 Disney Dish Jim Hill mentions the exact possibility. One month prior @WDW1974 mentioned possible permanent Princess Meet and Greet between Mexico and Norway)

..... Why? Also why the permanent princess meet and greet? FFS.

• Steve Davidson (designer of World of Color and Festival of Fantasy Parade) is working on an upgrade to IllumiNations. The time frame for completion of this could be as soon as 18 months. (July 25, 2013 - Orlando Parks News says possible show changes based on site ballon tests, August 4, 2013 - @wdw71fan sites $23.6 million budget to improve IllumiNations)

We've heard ROE rumors for 10 years. Call me when something actually happens.

Animal Kingdom

• $600 Million for Pandora (December 7, 2012 - Tom Staggs said $400-500 price tag)
  
• Might open with one ride (Simulator), with the boat ride coming on line 18 months later. (June 2, 2014 - WDWThemeParks.com reported that the boat ride will open as part of a Phase 2 for Pandora)

How many years since this was announced?

Wilderness Lodge

• A large segment will be converted to Disney Vacation Club. (June 17, 2014 - @WDW1974 starts a thread on this)

The good news, I can get an AP again in 2017. Might as well let this one expire.

 

[TP2000]

All I can find is an original estimate of 600 million and many sources with a final cost of 1.1 billion for the DCA redo. (USA Today, LA Times, and the definitive Wikipedia)

What was the real capital expense above and beyond the normal paint and maintenance?

The number that was out there was $1.2 billion, but that did not include World of Color. Was it over $2?

The 1.2 Billion they spent on DCA's extreme makeover from 2009 to 2012 did not include Toy Story Midway Mania approved in '05 and opened in '08, and the World of Color infrastructure and viewing area approved in an Entertainment budget. But those things were already approved and under construction when Jay Rasulo and Bob Iger made their big DCA announcement in October, 2007 and so they lumped them in as part of the deal.

Luckily, when Midway Mania opened in '08 they had spent a fortune on the façade and facility and it looked really top notch. Thus it was considered the first element of DCA's makeoever, even though it had been Imagineered and approved almost two years before the rest of DCA 2.0 was approved.

I doubt that Midway Mania and World of Color, as nice as they turned out, equal the extra 800 million to get to the 2 Billion price tag. But seeing how Cars Land turned out, and how it makes your jaw drop, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that ran over budget by at least 100 Million. Maybe add all that up and it gets you an extra 800 Million? I could believe 300 Million, but 800 Million? I'm skeptical.

 

[lebeau]

The man is a visionary, his successor has a huge hole to dig out from.

The last half of your sentence seems to contradict the first. Unless you meant to imply that Iger had a vision of leaving Disney World a mess.

 

[ford91exploder]

Hey how is this for an idea...The Padawan Test...the young padawans step onto a platform and pull on a glove - one with those motion capture dots built into it and then press a button to begin their 'exercise'. They are facing what looks like a clear window glass, with rocks and trees, bits of scrap metal, blocks etc. They try to use the Force to stack them, move them and so on. A computer uses the dots to track their motions and responds accordingly...occasionally with an explosive error, just for fun.

I don't know much about techie stuff. I am better if you keep me behind either a microscope or a sewing machine. maybe that is how these things work already.

What kind of Microscope - Optical or Electron?, My best personal microscope is a old American Optical phase contrast scope although in college I did learn to run an old school electron microscope.

This is the kind of thing WDI USED to come up with it's not only fun for the kids but it shows how movies are made and lets face it it's magic.

 

[omurice]

I knew it as 1000, but even still your point is well taken. I suspect it would be open 12 hours a day with Akershus also open at 9. The load area should be reconfigured, but I don't know if that's the bottleneck for the attraction. There are track switches and a lift hill in the attraction, both of which could be problems. Having said that, if they eliminate the unload area and make it a dual load area, it would at least create the option of another scene.

I think 1000 is the THRC for Maelstrom, but the "real-world" OHRC is (said to be) 900. Dual load would help, and like the Titanic - they would need more boats! Totally agreed the load/unload needs some revision.
The boat ride is part of what makes Maelstrom fun and I hope they don't go and replace the flume with a completely new ride system, though it's not impossible. Omni-mover style would bump capacity WAY up and they already have a multi-level experience so it would not be boring exactly. Can't see them expanding the footprint by much in 18 months, but they could re-think how that flume and the boats work. Yes that back over the falls reverse and then the other flume switch near "outside" hole in the rocks - those might be the bottlenecks (but those moments turn the current ride into something memorable and charming).


Hope they don't take out all the charm. I know Maelstrom is a jumble sale of confusing scenes, but it is unique at least, with (albeit cheesy) phrases people memorize and repeat years later. They run the risk of turning a pretty decent 3.5 minute boat ride into a Frozen "book-report-with-song-clips" dark ride.

Still it matters about 0.1% what I think - Frozen fanatics by the thousand would be lining up around the lagoon to see this thing no matter what form it takes!