DHS CARS LAND

[The Empress Lilly]

What do the Hundred Acre Woods, The Mine Train, Eric's Castle and Belle's Village have in common?

These have very little in common. This is why the New FL falls flat. You are not drawn into a distinct place there. No, instead you walk around on a few separate stages, which as cartoon worlds feel like movie sets to boot.

There is no magic inTanlged bathrooms + Belle rocks + Ariel rocks + Snow White rocks + Dumbo tents. Howvere fancy and and detailed. There is magic, however, in a hyperreal European mediaeval village.


At DHS, the theme that works is Hollywood + backlot. What will fall flat, is Hollywood + separate studios, or separate movie sets. Likewise, Cars Land works because it is a complete land, a place to visit. A RSR set in a Picxar place would lose nearly all appeal.

In the other examples below, no, indeed a cartoon South doesn't fit, I feel Splash should never have been build where it is. It fits in DL, is a clash in the MK.
The Caribbean, South Seas and Jungle Cruise forma thematic whole: that of the 1950s adventure film, set in an imaginary place that, borrowing from orientalism, Edward Said might term Western exoticism.

Or Tom Sawyer's St. Petersburg, Missouri, a cartoon South, or the mine town of Tumbleweed (all geographically distinct places) tie together? Or the Caribbean, South Pacific, or a Jungle Cruise that takes you all around the world on one quick boat right.

The point is, that all areas of a theme park need a loose theme. Each attraction will have a unique theme. As visitors, we willing suspend our disbelieve in transitioning from one attraction to the next, as long as there is some common continuity in theme.

 

[Imagineer Mitch]

I don't know how much it means, but there has been several Imagineers on site of Studios going in and out of Sound Stage 1 and the Backlot area.

 

[Thrill Seeker]

The distinct Studios theme would work the best. Pixar Place would remain as is with new elements added for new attractions of course.

Muppet Studios needs a sign like the one from 2011's The Muppets.

Lucasfilm would also need a sign to distinguish the area. That's about all you need.

 

[GoofGoof]

These have very little in common. This is why the New FL falls flat. You are not drawn into a distinct place there. No, instead you walk around on a few separate stages, which as cartoon worlds feel like movie sets to boot.

There is no magic inTanlged bathrooms + Belle rocks + Ariel rocks + Snow White rocks + Dumbo tents. Howvere fancy and and detailed. There is magic, however, in a hyperreal European mediaeval village.


At DHS, the theme that works is Hollywood + backlot. What will fall flat, is Hollywood + separate studios, or separate movie sets. Likewise, Cars Land works because it is a complete land, a place to visit. A RSR set in a Picxar place would lose nearly all appeal.

In the other examples below, no, indeed a cartoon South doesn't fit, I feel Splash should never have been build where it is. It fits in DL, is a clash in the MK.
The Caribbean, South Seas and Jungle Cruise forma thematic whole: that of the 1950s adventure film, set in an imaginary place that, borrowing from orientalism, Edward Said might term Western exoticism.

But this can be said about virtually any theme park. DL, DCA, IOA you name it they have some elements that don't quite fit with the others. At the end of the day if the rides are done well and the transitions are done right it should flow. I have no problem with Splash or the FLE area. I think the loose theme of the areas works well enough. Dumbo and the circus area is a bit awkward as a transition, but the fantasy forest area works for me.

I still don't see how Peter Pan, Pooh, Cinderella and Small World are OK together just because their show buildings are themed to a European village. If that's the case could they build a RSR like dark ride, MI Door Coaster and a Star Wars ride and slap them into the back end of DHS in warehouse sized buildings that are all themed to Hollywood on the outside?

 

[rioriz]

*virtual high five*

Co sign

Picky picky picky people

 

[lazyboy97o]

The distinct Studios theme would work the best. Pixar Place would remain as is with new elements added for new attractions of course.

Muppet Studios needs a sign like the one from 2011's The Muppets.

Lucasfilm would also need a sign to distinguish the area. That's about all you need.

If signs are needed then the place making has failed.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Fantasyland is not just a jumble of Disney films merely because they are Disney films. The relationships in the stories can be made beyond the Disney production of the films. That is not the case with the films suggested for Pixar Place. Where is the similarity between Cars and Toy Story beyond being buddy films made by Pixar? The films exist in completely separate worlds that have no basis for overlap.

Eaxctly, at the very least Fantasyland's stories mostly take place in Western Europe and allow for easier transitions.

Can't say that about Andy's Room, Radiator Springs, or Monstropolis. They're too radically different for one area alone.

"Disney" and "Pixar" are not themes onto themselves.

 

[unkadug]

If signs are needed then the place making has failed.

FAIL:

 

[lazyboy97o]

FAIL:

Use does not demonstrate the fulfillment of a need. The Adventureland sign signifies a portal but it is not necessary to indicate someplace else, as the design of Adventureland itself is capable of achieving this communication.

 

[hiptwinmama]

Use does not demonstrate the fulfillment of a need. The Adventureland sign signifies a portal but it is not necessary to indicate someplace else, as the design of Adventureland itself is capable of achieving this communication.

Just remember, we are all Disney junkies, we don't need the signs... heck we don't need maps. But the average tourist has no freakin clue where they are going. Hence the signs.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just remember, we are all Disney junkies, we don't need the signs... heck we don't need maps. But the average tourist has no freakin clue where they are going. Hence the signs.

I'm not talking about way finding, I'm talking about visual communication of place.

 

[unkadug]

I'm not talking about way finding, I'm talking about visual communication of place.

You took the literal meaning of Thrill Seekers comment...so we took the literal meaning of your comment.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You took the literal meaning of Thrill Seekers comment...so we took the literal meaning of your comment.

No, you didn't because I did not say "If signs are used." I said "If signs are needed." Your example shows a use, but does not show evidence that Adventureland needs a sign to be understood as a distinct place within the Magic Kingdom. Calling specifically for the use of signage is not an advocacy of greater place making, it is a recognition of the failure to properly define distinct places.

 

[unkadug]

No, you didn't because I did not say "If signs are used." I said "If signs are needed." Your example shows a use, but does not show evidence that Adventureland needs a sign to be understood as a distinct place within the Magic Kingdom. Calling specifically for the use of signage is not an advocacy of greater place making, it is a recognition of the failure to properly define distinct places.

So you think that any creation of Lucasland would be an automatic failure?

 

[lazyboy97o]

So you think that any creation of Lucasland would be an automatic failure?

Go back and carefully reread the post to which I responded. It talks about adding signage to what already exists as a means of creating distinct places within the park.

 

[unkadug]

Go back and carefully reread the post to which I responded. It talks about adding signage to what already exists as a means of creating distinct places within the park.

I just did.

He brought up Pixar Place...which has a VERY prominent sign

He brought up changing Muppets signage to reflect the newer movies logo.

He then brought up Lucasfilm needing a sign which is currently missing.


You have totally taken his words out of context

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Fantasyland is not just a jumble of Disney films merely because they are Disney films. The relationships in the stories can be made beyond the Disney production of the films. That is not the case with the films suggested for Pixar Place. Where is the similarity between Cars and Toy Story beyond being buddy films made by Pixar? The films exist in completely separate worlds that have no basis for overlap.

'Cause IASW and Pooh are like brothers from another mother?

If we were making Pixar Place as a new land in MK, then I would agree that it wouldn't make sense to just throw these movies together because the same company made them. I think it would work, however, in DHS with that overarching theme of of the love of movies and the magic of Hollywood. Part of that idea is respect and appreciation of the movie-making process. Part of that is knowing who made what. I don't think my kids know any difference between Pixar and WDFA. It's just movies with the castle in front that have rides at Disney World/-land. Heck, they might not even realize the difference between a Disney movie like Ratatouille that isn't represented much at the parks and a Madagascar. IMHO, grouping together the Pixar movies and making a land where all of those characters "live" and film their movies meshes perfectly with the "Studios" theme.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If we were making Pixar Place as a new land in MK, then I would agree that it wouldn't make sense to just throw these movies together because the same company made them. I think it would work, however, in DHS with that overarching theme of of the love of movies and the magic of Hollywood. Part of that idea is respect and appreciation of the movie-making process. Part of that is knowing who made what. I don't think my kids know any difference between Pixar and WDFA. It's just movies with the castle in front that have rides at Disney World/-land. Heck, they might not even realize the difference between a Disney movie like Ratatouille that isn't represented much at the parks and a Madagascar. IMHO, grouping together the Pixar movies and making a land where all of those characters "live" and film their movies meshes perfectly with the "Studios" theme.

What already exists, what people say is not working, is the studio theme. It all undermines the creation of immersive places because they must tinged with the acknowledgement of their fakeness. It's just a slight limitation to the no-man's-land concept of the general studio park concept.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

What already exists, what people say is not working, is the studio theme. It all undermines the creation of immersive places because they must tinged with the acknowledgement of their fakeness. It's just a slight limitation to the no-man's-land concept of the general studio park concept.

I think the studio theme "doesn't work" because in DHS, the actual studio part was a working production facility that was never intended to be guest area in the way that it's used now; it's a movie studio masquerading as a theme park. In WDSP, my understanding (never been) is that park was built on the shoestringiest of budgets, hence the plain ugly buildings and lack of placemaking. The studio theme hasn't been given a fair shake, IMO.

If you had built DHS intending it to be 100% a theme park, with Hollywood and Sunset Blvds the same and once you're past the GMR stepping into different studio lands with little "vignettes" from individual movies like the Fantasyland Expansion, I think it would have worked.

 

[jt04]

I think the studio theme "doesn't work" because in DHS, the actual studio part was a working production facility that was never intended to be guest area in the way that it's used now; it's a movie studio masquerading as a theme park. In WDSP, my understanding (never been) is that park was built on the shoestringiest of budgets, hence the plain ugly buildings and lack of placemaking. The studio theme hasn't been given a fair shake, IMO.

If you had built DHS intending it to be 100% a theme park, with Hollywood and Sunset Blvds the same and once you're past the GMR stepping into different studio lands with little "vignettes" from individual movies like the Fantasyland Expansion, I think it would have worked.

Hollywood and Sunset could act as the actual 'city' as could much of the area around echo lake. The rest of the park could be the studios, also a part of the city. An idealized, fanciful version of the Hollywood that never was....

Very workable. I think your ideas are exactly right.