DHS CARS LAND

[Pixiedustmaker]

The plan represents master planning of land USE - not Disney's ongoing operations. They represent what Disney *COULD* do - not what they *ARE DOING*

???

I think you're arguing semantics here. RCID plans are updated a lot more frequently than every couple of decades. If you looked at these plans before Avatarland, you would think, correctly, that AK would be ripe for the addition of a new land. What Disney *is* doing is running four theme parks, just opened FLE, working on Avatarland. Carsland at DHS, IMHO is just a rumor. And the "inside sources" say that it hasn't been greenlit yet.

Hehe. Now we got Star Wars, which is one of the few properties Disney has which can be milked a whole lot more than the Cars franchise.

What you are saying sort of proves my point . . . these plans are what Disney could do, and more than that, given logistics, they are the path of least resistance. They are the "master planning" of land use which would involve the construction of a new land, theme park, resort.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Anyone that has ever worked in or with land planners know how nebulus long range plans really are. A lot of speculation can be started by a planner with best intentions thinking to himself/herself "this would be a great idea." Means next to nothing in real implementation.

I would say that RCID comprehensive plans are based on feasibility studies (they have to be, such as geological for where they can build, i.e. suitability), and they say nothing about what will be built, only where it would happen.

If you remember, Disney hired folks to do a study to figure out where to put Disneyland. They came up with Anaheim. On a smaller scale, Disney did a big study to figure out where a theme park/resorts would go so they could put it in the report and when they pull the trigger nobody in the state legislature could say, "they didn't say anything about this."

Sure, plans can change, but the RCID report backsup what I am saying about DHS.

 

[menamechris]

Anyone that has ever worked in or with land planners know how nebulus long range plans really are. A lot of speculation can be started by a planner with best intentions thinking to himself/herself "this would be a great idea." Means next to nothing in real implementation.

This make perfect sense and is clear. But will not be understood by the individual you are directing it at. Just sayin... In fact, that goes for the other crystal clear points and analogies being used by other well-meaning posters who are responding. We basically have a situation of an individual arguing because they WANT it to be true, and any evidence or knowledge to the contrary is debatable - as opposed to fact.

 

[NoChesterHester]

I would say that RCID comprehensive plans are based on feasibility studies (they have to be, such as geological for where they can build, i.e. suitability), and they say nothing about what will be built, only where it would happen.

If you remember, Disney hired folks to do a study to figure out where to put Disneyland. They came up with Anaheim. On a smaller scale, Disney did a big study to figure out where a theme park/resorts would go so they could put it in the report and when they pull the trigger nobody in the state legislature could say, "they didn't say anything about this."

Sure, plans can change, but the RCID report backsup what I am saying about DHS.

You are right, plans are base on real physical and scientific information, market studies, projections, all with a bit of educated guess. It is a real art form.

I'm just saying the masterplans definitely don't dictate development however, merely provide a rough road map. If someone decides, we need a resort in this area here... they make it happen and adjust the plan accordingly. The plan usually isn't determining or even illustrating what is next. If anyone could figure out a formula as to how those decisions are made we could make some real money in real estate!

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

You are right, plans are base on real physical and scientific information, market studies, projections, all with a bit of educated guess. It is a real art form.

I'm just saying the masterplans definitely don't dictate development however, merely provide a rough road map.

But the fact that there is unsuitable swamp land south of DHS isn't really a subjective call. Or the fact that World Drive is to the west. So, there are some hard facts that are hard to get around in the report. It is like an intelligence estimate, you give a percentage estimate of something happening a certain way. If you look at the institutional history, a disinclination to infill development in DHS, as well as fixed geographical features which preclude development, I see about a 10% chance they would seriously consider building Carsland at DHS.

 

[flynnibus]

This make perfect sense and is clear. But will not be understood by the individual you are directing it at. Just sayin... In fact, that goes for the other crystal clear points and analogies being used by other well-meaning posters who are responding. We basically have a situation of an individual arguing because they WANT it to be true, and any evidence or knowledge to the contrary is debatable - as opposed to fact.

Yup - I was responding more for prosperity.. I never expected it to click for him

 

[FrankLapidus]

I see about a 10% chance they would seriously consider building Carsland at DHS.

And there is significantly less chance of a fifth gate being built anytime soon.

Cars Land will go to DHS (if it is built at WDW) and the likelihood (according to pretty much every insider on this forum who has commented on it, including the OP) is that it will replace the Backlot Tour and LMA.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

And there is significantly less chance of a fifth gate being built anytime soon.

Cars Land will go to DHS (if it is built at WDW) and the likelihood (according to pretty much every insider on this forum who has commented on it, including the OP) is that it will replace the Backlot Tour and LMA.

A lot of ideas are batted around. Look at Pixie Hollow for FLE, they announced that and then changed course. Carsland hasn't even been announced. Probably not even close to being announced as they want to let DCA get a some good years under the belt as having Carsland as an exclusive.

Like that little sign in your car's mirror about things being closer than they appear, a fifth gate is a lot closer than some people figure.

 

[Ignohippo]

Yup - I was responding more for prosperity.. I never expected it to click for him

Why are we still debating this? This thread has become completely bogged down by one member who absolutely refuses to acknowledge common sense.

 

[FrankLapidus]

A lot of ideas are batted around. Look at Pixie Hollow for FLE, they announced that and then changed course. Carsland hasn't even been announced. Probably not even close to being announced as they want to let DCA get a some good years under the belt as having Carsland as an exclusive.

They could announce at D23 next year and start construction immediately and by the time it would be finished (taking into account the time it takes to build something at WDW these days) DCA would get those years. The fact is DHS needs something and Cars Land is a ready-made addition which has proven to be a money-spinner at DCA. A fifth gate isn't on the horizon, you can keep saying that it is all you want but Disney aren't going to splash out on building another park when they are seemingly so reluctant to spend the money needed to fix the problems at three of the four parks they already have. Cars Land isn't a sure thing, nothing really is until shovels are in the ground, but the odds of it being placed at DHS if it does happen (and replacing the Backlot and LMA) are significantly larger than it being part of some imminent fifth gate. Not saying that a fifth gate will never happen but if it does it won't be for a while yet and by the time it does, I would expect Cars Land to already be installed at DHS if Disney press ahead with bringing it to Orlando.

 

[menamechris]

Where has JT been?

 

[djkidkaz]

Where has JT been?

Was wondering this as well.

 

[misterID]

They just spent $4.05B to have complete control over the one IP that would pretty much be a guaranteed Potter Swatter if properly executed and you honestly believe they aren't chomping at the bit to use it?

For the record, I'm an unabashed fan of WWoHP.

How are they chomping at the bit to use SW, when they could have for the past two decades but didn't? They get the Star wars movies and full control of merch. Just like Marvel.

And beat UNI with what? WDW is the #1 visited theme park in America, they make way more money than UNI, and that seems to be their top priority, not being the absolute best at cutting edge theme park attractions. Ask Martin how many Potter Swatter plans they had and didn't use. It's obvious they don't care about having a Potter swatter, they're happy sitting at the top of the mountain and being complacent.

But I'm sure a cool SW attraction will show up in Asia somewhere.

 

[misterID]

And for the record, why anyone would want a fifth park (which is nonsense) when the existing parks need so much help is beyond me.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

How are they chomping at the bit to use SW, when they could have for the past two decades but didn't?

It's a lot easier to get a project off the ground when you cut out the middleman...in this case, George Lucas, who is notorious for being a pain in the to work with.

 

[misterID]

It's a lot easier to get a project off the ground when you cut out the middleman...in this case, George Lucas, who is notorious for being a pain in the to work with.

Pain in the , as in not allowing Disney to nickel and dime his properties, ala JK Rowling? And again, I doubt old George was the problem that was standing in the way of a big SW expansion at WDW or any other Disney park.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Pain in the , as in not allowing Disney to nickel and dime his properties, ala JK Rowling?

Considering the fact that in less than 10 years from inception to completion Universal will have done substantially more with Harry Potter than Disney has with SW/Indy in the past 25? I'd wager it's a safe bet that Rowling is just a tad more flexible than Lucas.

 

[misterID]

Considering the fact that in less than 10 years from inception to completion Universal will have done substantially more with Harry Potter than Disney has with SW/Indy in the past 25? I'd wager it's a safe bet that Rowling is just a tad more flexible than Lucas.

Oh, I agree that UNI is going to make incredible strides in the coming years and that's exciting. But WDW will continue to rake in more profit than UNI is able to, and that's what they care about.

And I'm not certain JK is more flexible than George -- JK dropped Disney like a bad habit at the discussion phase because they wouldn't cede the control she wanted. George doesn't seem to be the stickler JK is. You don't see him stepping in over the size of the SW gift shops and demanding they meet his demands whether it's insane with crowd conjestion or not. I think JK is way more obsessive over her properties than George was. By miles. For instance, I don't think she would sell Harry Potter to anyone for any price...

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Oh, I agree that UNI is going to make incredible strides in the coming years and that's exciting. But WDW will continue to rake in more profit than UNI is able to, and that's what they care about.

And I'm not certain JK is more flexible than George -- JK dropped Disney like a bad habit at the discussion phase because they wouldn't cede the control she wanted. George doesn't seem to be the stickler JK is. You don't see him stepping in over the size of the SW gift shops and demanding they meet his demands whether it's insane with crowd conjestion or not. I think JK is way more obsessive over her properties than George was. By miles. For instance, I don't think she would sell Harry Potter to anyone for any price...

I think the key difference here is the medium the IPs started in, as well as how they evolved. Star Wars started as a film, has been touched by literally THOUSANDS of people outside of George himself, and has evolved in numerous ways over the last 35 years. Harry Potter started as a book. JK Rowling had, and continues to, create every minute aspect of the franchise from her own imagination. As much as I'm sure Lucas considers Star Wars his baby, the very expanded universe concept of Star Wars makes it so that Harry Potter is undoubtedly much more near and dear to JK Rowling than Star Wars is to Lucas. I can understand why she would be so protective of it.

Now grant it, being an individual who has no experience in theme park design or logistics, I'm sure some of her demands were quite outlandish and impossible to implement. But kudos to Universal for letting her have a very heavy say while applying her ideas to a very unique medium.

Lucas on the other hand...how long ago were there rumors about Star Tours II? I'd say there was a gap of 10 or more years between when word first started to spread and when it actually became reality.

 

[Mike730]

Non-Disney employees on RCID board!

I'm glad I got you from, "The RCID isn't Disney", and now you're at RCID is Disney's tool, but leave open the possibility for non-Disney folks on RCID board. Again, not how RCID works, and why it was setup which goes to heart of the story of WDW. RCID board members have always been high-ranking Disney employees. Disney owns all of the property on the property sans public roads and sham 5-acre parcels given to board members.

Disney = RCID.

RCID took an act of the state legislature and the Florida governor at the time. It was meant to give Disney almost complete control of everything on the property. I believe that during a signing ceremony, Governor Kirk told Roy Disney, "“Mr. Disney, I’ve studied the Reedy Creek Improvement District. It’s very comprehensive. I noticed only one omission. You made no provision for the crown.”

RCID allowed for Disney to control the utilities, and limit overview, and cut through red tape. The only thing the counties they lived in could do to them was levy taxes and inspect elevators. Heck, everybody knows RCID could even build a nuclear power plant if they . . . if Disney wanted.

Under state law RCID has to provide a comprehensive development plan. They have and continue to do so. No reason to believe the info in the plan is doctored as there is plenty of room for Carsland . . . at a fifth gate, or elsewhere.

RCID is a unique blend, a government/private entity, really just the Mouse's power play to control things on its property, i.e. a private entity with the powers of the government and which doesn't need to respond to the "people" as they 100% control it. They specifically don't want non-company folks ever voting or having any say whatsoever regarding RCID. That is why they *lease* property for third party developers, as only landowners can vote, be on the board.

You're really missing the point and you're preaching to the choir here. Changing the topic to a debate on the semantics of RCID doesn't change the fact that you're wrong about development.
I know all about the RCID.
I know their job.
The Plan set by the RCID does not tell Disney how to redevelop land with attractions. It tells Disney how to develop land without attractions, buildings etc. already on it, how to effectively use their land.
To ascertain that any new attraction has to go on "undeveloped land described in the Plan", all the while ignoring the possibility of redeveloping land in use is simply foolish.
You're ideas about future development hold no water.
If Cars Land comes, it will go where it fits. = Pixar Place