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Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
The music, heart, comedy, and family-centered values of Muppets are perfect for Disney. How doesn't specifically Muppets fit to Disney?

Disney didn't create them or have a hand, so to speak, in their development. That's how they don't fit. They're just a purchase. Now some will say the same applies to Pixar, but that's incorrect. John Lasseter trained at Disney. Disney guided and funded Pixar in its early years, and if it hadn't, Pixar wouldn't exist. In addition, Pixar's storytelling aesthetic is very close to Disney's. So is its character designs. That's why, to most people, Pixar IS Disney. They really don't feel the need to make a distinction.

See, I don't value Disney because it has a big pocketbook that can buy up properties that have faded over the years. I value Disney because of its tradition of innovation and creativity. Its characters and concepts used to come from within, not without. That's what made Disney special. I'd kinda like that to continue, not only in its movies, but in its parks as well. :)
 

Turtle

Well-Known Member
Disney didn't create them or have a hand, so to speak, in their development. That's how they don't fit. They're just a purchase
Jim Henson was inspired by Walt Disney "like Wizard of Oz", and I could go on.. You just have an unreasonable hatred of outside acquisitions. Muppets are a perfect fit for Disney, but I can understand Marvel and Star Tours not fitting in
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
Thats his point... because Disney the company didn't specifically make the Muppets, create those characters, make their own "vision" of them... it is obviously not Disney and should be removed from the parks... I'd argue that the Muppets are very much in the spirit of what Walt Disney was going for with the creation of characters and see absolutely no problem with their presence in the parks. I think most would agree with me. I personally like the variety we have the parks of yes, even acquired Disney characters. I think it's a rather close minded opinion personally but to each their own I suppose.

As opposed to an "open-minded" opinion in which anything goes? Maybe Disney should buy the Smurfs and the Chipmunks and put them into the parks too. After all, they're family oriented, cute, and brightly colored, which to some people would probably mean that they'd fit right in. And the characters are already formed and have made money, so hey, they're perfect, right?

I don't agree that the Muppets are in tune with Walt's aesthetic. At all. To me, they're a mean bunch of creatures that blow each other up, eat each other, hit each other and then pause every now and then to sing a song about tolerance and/or world peace and stuff. Yes, that's right, I've never been a big fan of them, except for the Sesame Street bunch (when I was very young). But I'm not a big fan of the Marvel heroes or the Power Rangers either. So whatever. Now I understand that others here don't agree with me, and I think that's fine. I don't want this to escalate into an argument, so I'm signing off here. Peace out. :)
 

nytimez

Well-Known Member
Disney didn't create them or have a hand, so to speak, in their development. That's how they don't fit. They're just a purchase. Now some will say the same applies to Pixar, but that's incorrect. John Lasseter trained at Disney. Disney guided and funded Pixar in its early years, and if it hadn't, Pixar wouldn't exist. In addition, Pixar's storytelling aesthetic is very close to Disney's. So is its character designs. That's why, to most people, Pixar IS Disney. They really don't feel the need to make a distinction.

See, I don't value Disney because it has a big pocketbook that can buy up properties that have faded over the years. I value Disney because of its tradition of innovation and creativity. Its characters and concepts used to come from within, not without. That's what made Disney special. I'd kinda like that to continue, not only in its movies, but in its parks as well. :)


Many of the DreamWorks team -- both executives and animators -- started at Disney and were trained at Disney. The storytelling aesthetic is very close to Disney's. So is its character designs. If Disney bought DreamWorks, would you welcome How to Train Your Dragon at Disney parks?
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
As opposed to an "open-minded" opinion in which anything goes? Maybe Disney should buy the Smurfs and the Chipmunks and put them into the parks too. After all, they're family oriented, cute, and brightly colored, which to some people would probably mean that they'd fit right in. And the characters are already formed and have made money, so hey, they're perfect, right?

I don't agree that the Muppets are in tune with Walt's aesthetic. At all. To me, they're a mean bunch of creatures that blow each other up, eat each other, hit each other and then pause every now and then to sing a song about tolerance and/or world peace and stuff. Yes, that's right, I've never been a big fan of them, except for the Sesame Street bunch (when I was very young). But I'm not a big fan of the Marvel heroes or the Power Rangers either. So whatever. Now I understand that others here don't agree with me, and I think that's fine. I don't want this to escalate into an argument, so I'm signing off here. Peace out. :)

He never ever claimed that. Nor did I. That's an absolutely ridiculous twist of what I and Turtle posted. And seriously? You are calling the Muppets mean? The frog you say the Rainbow Connection is mean? Yeeaaaah... ok. I think you might be the first person in the history of ever to do that. You also clearly by your own admittance don't like the Muppets and by that extension, I going to assume you don't know much about Henson either. I think the Muppets especially are far different from the two properties you threw up there above. And by that point, there are plenty of mean things in the Disney movies... I could make you a list that goes on and on. That is partially the reason people like them. They, unlike many animation studios, weren't afraid to go "dark" or as dark as a kids movie could go.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
Many of the DreamWorks team -- both executives and animators -- started at Disney and were trained at Disney. The storytelling aesthetic is very close to Disney's. So is its character designs. If Disney bought DreamWorks, would you welcome How to Train Your Dragon at Disney parks?
By his logic, I think he would have to. I actually think How to Train Your Dragon would be a wonderful presence in the Disney Parks. Best film Dreamworks has done IMO. I asked for it for Christmas when it came out, I liked it so much. :) It would be wonderful to see Disney or Universal get the rights to it (maybe Universal has more of a chance since they got Shrek?).
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Many of the DreamWorks team -- both executives and animators -- started at Disney and were trained at Disney. The storytelling aesthetic is very close to Disney's. So is its character designs. If Disney bought DreamWorks, would you welcome How to Train Your Dragon at Disney parks?
At one time yes, but it has always really been more of "Jeffrey Katzenberg unleashed". While you can certainly point to someone like Chris Sanders as an example of a Disney guy, the heart of DreamWorks Animation is films with heart, like Disney, but ... with a ton of edge often to their detriment by rotting out said heart through spending more time on cheap gags over character development.
(BTW, I must disclose that I really miss Chris Sanders' style, which has translated poorly to Photorealistic CG. Here's to hoping he comes back to Disney and gets on that Paperman train!!)
 

nytimez

Well-Known Member
At one time yes, but it has always really been more of "Jeffrey Katzenberg unleashed". While you can certainly point to someone like Chris Sanders as an example of a Disney guy, the heart of DreamWorks Animation is films with heart, like Disney, but ... with a ton of edge often to their detriment by rotting out said heart through spending more time on cheap gags over character development.
(BTW, I must disclose that I really miss Chris Sanders' style, which has translated poorly to Photorealistic CG. Here's to hoping he comes back to Disney and gets on that Paperman train!!)

I doubt you'll see Chris Sanders at Disney ever again... at least, not as long as Lasseter is in charge.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I doubt you'll see Chris Sanders at Disney ever again... at least, not as long as Lasseter is in charge.
Sadly, yes.

EDIT:
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/chris-sanders-no-longer-directing-american-dog-2407.html

I forgot that the management prior to Lasseter and Catmull had given him a ton of crap over this film and was VERY skeptical of the move to CG. We'll have to wait and see if the Spirit knows anything. I still would love to see what he could do with the Paperman tech.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
As opposed to an "open-minded" opinion in which anything goes? Maybe Disney should buy the Smurfs and the Chipmunks and put them into the parks too. After all, they're family oriented, cute, and brightly colored, which to some people would probably mean that they'd fit right in. And the characters are already formed and have made money, so hey, they're perfect, right?

I don't agree that the Muppets are in tune with Walt's aesthetic. At all. To me, they're a mean bunch of creatures that blow each other up, eat each other, hit each other and then pause every now and then to sing a song about tolerance and/or world peace and stuff. Yes, that's right, I've never been a big fan of them, except for the Sesame Street bunch (when I was very young). But I'm not a big fan of the Marvel heroes or the Power Rangers either. So whatever. Now I understand that others here don't agree with me, and I think that's fine. I don't want this to escalate into an argument, so I'm signing off here. Peace out. :)

A Smurf dark ride would be awesome - the one that existed has long closed (or the overlay replaced, I can't recall which). The Chipmunks would be neat in a little stage show with puppets/animatronics.

I kind of get what you are saying, but I see a few issues. First, arguing about "Walt's aesthetic" - plays into the whole "Walt was God" myth. The man has been dead nearly fifty years, and if he hadn't died then he would still be pretty assuredly dead now at 111ish years old. If one deflects to the Walt that lived in the 1940's, 50's, and 60's, they are also talking about a period in time that he is conceptually associated with because he lived in that time. Walt is evocative of a more family-friendly feel-good time because that was the time in which he lived.

Thinking that Walt Disney's 2012 "aesthetic" would be the same were he living and working now is a pretty silly concept. We already saw development to other areas - Walt was intricately involved in both Haunted Mansion and Pirates. Both of which weren't all singing mice and puppy dogs kissing kitties, particularly the latter. Although I loathe to discuss what a dead man would think, I have to say if Walt had made it to the 1970's, we may very well have been introduced to the Muppets by Walt himself on an episode of "Wide World of Disney". They very much are of the core of his aesthetic - family, togetherness, brotherhood, songs that can not only be catchy and fun and "just because" but also ones that tug at the heart and can even be termed as bitter-sweet and reflective.

All that said, it doesn't matter a tinkers darn, and here is why.

Is it a bit odd to be walking through Adventureland and see an Indiana Jones ride? Yes. Do most people care? No. Why? Because even in it's slightly ragged state, it's an amazing ride that I am so grateful we have. We wouldn't have it otherwise. Or Star Tours. Or the original Pixar pictures (which Disney distributed, but had nothing to do with the making of). (Wait a minute, now that I am thinking, as much as I am sick of Toy Story in every park, maybe you are on to something...)

So, yes, as a Disney fan I like the theming and consistency but I'm willing to make compromises if it gets us stellar attractions. And the truth is, the Muppets were MADE to be theme park attractions. They already exist in the real world as 3-D objects (none of the "Ariel's hair looks like an ice cream cone!" issues, they don't need to be translated, they are already physical puppets that could have animatronics as we have already seen), and if Jim Henson had lived they would be older members of the Disney family than even the Pixar characters because the rides/shows that were designed to be based on them would have been completed two decades ago. MuppetVision was just the first step - we would have had at least one Muppet dark ride and a restaurant as well. I can imagine an insane demand for a true replication of the Muppet theater with a real live Muppet show, mix it with a "dinner theater" sort of thing and it would be booked out six months in advance.

California gets this. They have been dealing with it since the 80's and realize that Disneyland is first and foremost a theme park. And as much as we like to romanticize the origins (like those of us that are young enough to not be able to imagine a world where we had to give individual tickets to get on rides like both Disneyland and Magic Kingdom used to long ago), Walt also had the Carnation Cafe and other promotional, real-world things in the parks. They were not this pristine "Disney Only" place - Tom Sawyer Island (was there even a Disney adaptation? I can't recall, but it certainly didn't "recreate" the way that Snow White, etc. was if they did), all that Frontieerland stuff (I mean, people used to ride mules at Disneyland - Disneyland!)

The point is, the idea of it all is very romantic, but it's nothing to get disgruntled about; it's akin to people who bash "clones" of rides, just something that Disney fans on the Internet who think too much and forget that we live in a bubble and forget that to the real world, very few people walk into Adventureland at Disneyland and say, "What? I don't like this - why is Indiana Jones here?" They mostly say, "WOW that is an amazing ride!" And as long as, in general, the Disney "spirit" and "magic" is kept up all around, aberrations like the Muppets, Star Wars, even Marvel can't hurt that, as long as they are amazing attractions.

Now, does Disney even make amazing attractions period these days - that's a whole other bottle of wax...
 

stevehousse

Well-Known Member
Supposedly ratatouille has been thrown in the mix for the France pavilion

I had suggested this in a post somewhere on here, but it was only an idea! I would be so glad if this is true as Epcot does need something bad, even though its not a future world redo, I'll take anything!
 

M.rudolf

Well-Known Member
I had suggested this in a post somewhere on here, but it was only an idea! I would be so glad if this is true as Epcot does need something bad, even though its not a future world redo, I'll take anything!
Whylightbulb and I were talking about it this afternoon I know it was originally considered for cars land between the 2 of us we figured about 70% chance of happening
 

PREMiERdrum

Well-Known Member
A Smurf dark ride would be awesome - the one that existed has long closed (or the overlay replaced, I can't recall which).

The Smurfs Enchanted Voyage boat dark ride at Kings Island (Mason, OH) was gutted in 1991 and replaced with a traditional dark ride, Phantom Theater, in 1992.

Smurf Mountain Minetrain at Kings Dominion (Doswell, VA) survived until it was replaced by Volcano: The Blast Coaster in 1998.
 

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