News DeSantis moves to bring state safety oversight of the Walt Disney World Monorail including suspending the service for inspections

[note2001]

But how about falling out an open door/window or have a part drop on you? Not a zero chance

This is what is concerning, and what has been eluded to over and over in this thread. There are no less than 6 areas of specialty for reviewing & inspecting standard train operation per the FRA.

Will the inspection teams be comprised of people who will look not only at the operations and tracks, but the trains themselves? A door randomly falling off over the EPCOT parking lot could have killed, thankfully it didn't. Someone should have noticed it was an issue long before it happened.

 

[Ayla]

Monorails are unique trains in that they have no bumper system to absorb impact. The issue was that combined with the sloped design of the nose cone causing one rail car to slide up and into the other. An inspection would not have prevented the result of the impact. What it may have done is to bring to light that there was a lack of staffing/training on the job preventing the accident to start with.

Inspections don't prevent human error, which was the cause of the fatal monorail accident.

 

[flynnibus]

Inspections don't prevent human error, which was the cause of the fatal monorail accident.

But inspections do review procedures- which if different could have avoided the human mistakes and/or had other checks in place that could have caught the first error before the trains collided

 

[Trauma]

Why not just read the accident report?

I run my own business managing employees in 12 states.

I’m on the road 7 days a week working 14-16 hours.

The only reason I can participate in these forums is voice to text on my phone.

TLDR: I don’t have time so I asked.

 

[Trauma]

This is what is concerning, and what has been eluded to over and over in this thread. There are no less than 6 areas of specialty for reviewing & inspecting standard train operation per the FRA.

Will the inspection teams be comprised of people who will look not only at the operations and tracks, but the trains themselves? A door randomly falling off over the EPCOT parking lot could have killed, thankfully it didn't. Someone should have noticed it was an issue long before it happened.

The thing is the state should have stepped in with inspections after the door fell off it they thought it was necessary.

Now since it’s being done for the wrong reasons even if it is necessary it shouldn’t be happening.

 

[Rich Brownn]

I don't know... Considering a door was wide open on one of these cars while it was in motion, this might not be a bad thing.
And a sizable piece fell off one as well.

In the old monorails back in the 70s "door unsafe" was rather common - either not closed enough (you had the slam the darn things) or they'd actually pop open. It was such a concern that the beams by the Contemporary have large support platforms to catch doors ripped off going into the Contemporary (I drove them, so I cannot begin to tell you the number of times I got a door unsafe and told to crawl into the C).

 

[Rich Brownn]

I believe that death was an operator in a pilot's booth. Guests are no longer allowed in pilot's areas to protect them, as the front and backs of the train are the most vulnerable part if there is a collision. (The death was related to a collision. From memory, in or near a station, though that last part could be wrong.). Anyway, if you're a guest, with this, you have a 0% chance of being killed to date.

It wasn't pilot error. During shutdown, monorails from EPCOT loop have to be shunted over to the MK loop. During this procedure the emergency stop system has to be overridden or the monorail will auto stop preventing the transfer. The EPCOT train needs to back through the TTC station. During this operation a supervisor is supposed to be onsite visually assuring the beam is switched. It was not and the supervisor was over at Denny's. As train #1 was backing through the station train #2 was approaching. While train #2 could see the approaching train, the operator in train #1 could not.

This wasn't the first serious collision though. Back in the 70s trains were operator in violation of rules (but with permission of management) to have six trains on exterior beam. This required an override of the emergency stop system as the goal was to have your nose into the station before the tail of the other train exited, providing continual movement. One train had bad breaks and when applied, was too close to stop and crashed into the other train. This was a few months before I started and was emphasized to me on my training - everyone was on eggshells and overriding a hold area was an extreme no no. (The trains involved were red and blue. One was totally rebuilt). The driver wasn't killed, but seriously injured with life-changing injuries <the annunciator panel nearly cut him in half>. After that, five trains were max on exterior and overriding the emergency stop was only allowed during track transfer.

 

[Lilofan]

It wasn't pilot error. During shutdown, monorails from EPCOT loop have to be shunted over to the MK loop. During this procedure the emergency stop system has to be overridden or the monorail will auto stop preventing the transfer. The EPCOT train needs to back through the TTC station. During this operation a supervisor is supposed to be onsite visually assuring the beam is switched. It was not and the supervisor was over at Denny's. As train #1 was backing through the station train #2 was approaching. While train #2 could see the approaching train, the operator in train #1 could not.

This wasn't the first serious collision though. Back in the 70s trains were operator in violation of rules (but with permission of management) to have six trains on exterior beam. This required an override of the emergency stop system as the goal was to have your nose into the station before the tail of the other train exited, providing continual movement. One train had bad breaks and when applied, was too close to stop and crashed into the other train. This was a few months before I started and was emphasized to me on my training - everyone was on eggshells and overriding a hold area was an extreme no no. (The trains involved were red and blue. One was totally rebuilt). The driver wasn't killed, but seriously injured with life-changing injuries <the annunciator panel nearly cut him in half>. After that, five trains were max on exterior and overriding the emergency stop was only allowed during track transfer.

Yes the manager that was eating at Denny's off property and directing the monorails while on lunch break was the icing on the cake. Better that Disney settled with the family instead of a civil trial.

 

[flynnibus]

It wasn't pilot error. During shutdown, monorails from EPCOT loop have to be shunted over to the MK loop. During this procedure the emergency stop system has to be overridden or the monorail will auto stop preventing the transfer. The EPCOT train needs to back through the TTC station. During this operation a supervisor is supposed to be onsite visually assuring the beam is switched. It was not and the supervisor was over at Denny's. As train #1 was backing through the station train #2 was approaching. While train #2 could see the approaching train, the operator in train #1 could not.

I never heard anything why the staff on the platform didn’t initiate a shutdown when the train came in on the wrong beam. Were they not part of the radio chatter? Or was simply no one with a kill switch?

 

[JoeCamel]

I never heard anything why the staff on the platform didn’t initiate a shutdown when the train came in on the wrong beam. Were they not part of the radio chatter? Or was simply no one with a kill switch?

Given the time of the collision was there anyone on the platform? I forget from when I read the report

 

[Nubs70]

It wasn't pilot error. During shutdown, monorails from EPCOT loop have to be shunted over to the MK loop. During this procedure the emergency stop system has to be overridden or the monorail will auto stop preventing the transfer. The EPCOT train needs to back through the TTC station. During this operation a supervisor is supposed to be onsite visually assuring the beam is switched. It was not and the supervisor was over at Denny's. As train #1 was backing through the station train #2 was approaching. While train #2 could see the approaching train, the operator in train #1 could not.

This wasn't the first serious collision though. Back in the 70s trains were operator in violation of rules (but with permission of management) to have six trains on exterior beam. This required an override of the emergency stop system as the goal was to have your nose into the station before the tail of the other train exited, providing continual movement. One train had bad breaks and when applied, was too close to stop and crashed into the other train. This was a few months before I started and was emphasized to me on my training - everyone was on eggshells and overriding a hold area was an extreme no no. (The trains involved were red and blue. One was totally rebuilt). The driver wasn't killed, but seriously injured with life-changing injuries <the annunciator panel nearly cut him in half>. After that, five trains were max on exterior and overriding the emergency stop was only allowed during track transfer.

So WDW was operating the monorail in violation of safety protocols?

 

[Ayla]

But inspections do review procedures- which if different could have avoided the human mistakes and/or had other checks in place that could have caught the first error before the trains collided

When procedures aren't followed, it doesn't matter.

 

[flynnibus]

When procedures aren't followed, it doesn't matter.

They were being followed that night. They were insufficient to prevent one mistake (the switch operator in the barn) from leading to a fatality.

 

[flynnibus]

So WDW was operating the monorail in violation of safety protocols?

No - they had a operator error in the barn and the operating procedures were too lax to catch it or see the symptoms before the collision happened.

They were operating within the SOP - they however were insufficient given the combination of circumstances

 

[flynnibus]

Given the time of the collision was there anyone on the platform? I forget from when I read the report

Guests were still in the system… so the station would have been manned

 

[note2001]

When procedures aren't followed, it doesn't matter.

Interesting point. If FL is taking on inspection of these systems, should they fail to do their duty then they are potentially also liable in the case of any incident arising from it.

I wonder if they're aware of this. Seems to me they want all the authority but none of the responsibility.

 

[Lilofan]

Will DeSantis gets his oversight hands involved in today's incident? Watching Resort TV live stream parks online , Liberty Belle boat at MK broke down on the water and guests were seen being crammed into Tom Sawyer rafts that came to the rescue to Liberty Belle this afternoon. Lets see if any media coverage on this one. LB boat eventually later on made it back to the dock.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Interesting point. If FL is taking on inspection of these systems, should they fail to do their duty then they are potentially also liable in the case of any incident arising from it.

I wonder if they're aware of this. Seems to me they want all the authority but none of the responsibility.

The state often does inspections without assuming liability.

 

[Rich Brownn]

So WDW was operating the monorail in violation of safety protocols?

If you're referring to the 1970s accident, yes although the operation was considered SOP. (You were instructed to approach the station bypassing the WaBCO Autostop until you had visual sighting of the train in the station. If it was still there, release the bypass button and the WaBCO would auto stop the train... in theory)>

 

[Penny’s Dad]

I just got back from spending a week at WDW. We drove and stoped at the rest area at the Florida line on I95 and one on the opposite side driving back. I’m not sure what type of inspections they do on rest areas but apparently not much of one if any. Both of these are in need of major upgrades. This leaves a bad impression on tourists and is where they should be concentrating their efforts rather than targeting Disney that does a good job with maintenance and inspections.