Death at Driving Experience

flynnibus

Premium Member
I remember an account girl bragging that her dad was a race driver, and that he taught her how to drive, so she signed out a Viper from Chrysler and before she even got it back to the agency

Yeah, a viper that is tame... just isn't a viper :) Just like a lot of the comments about Lambos and their identity.

Local guy used to have a Viper with two scuba tank sized NOS bottles... :devilish:

Keep telling myself I want to treat myself to one of those week long driving schools - but hasn't happened.
 

Innovention18

New Member
Turns are not symmetrical - its not as simple as saying 'go the other way'.
I'm afraid I'm missing your point. Tracks are raced forwards and backwards in professional competition often. I fail to understand why the exotic cars couldn't be turning left in the oval portion (the way they've mostly been raced on since the track was built. Also the way the RPDE stock cars drive). Help me understand, thanks!
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
It's a very common service and this is actually one of the better ways to do it. Far better than those places in Vegas or whatever that will rent you an exotic just like a rental car... with no training and out on the public roads.

Yes, I've heard about rentals of exotics and this helped to jar my memory of the ads I see in the car mags for driving exotics on tracks.
I was aware of the Richard Petty Experience as offered by Disney.
While there is of course a risk involved in that, those are at least purpose built cars.
An exotic is for want of a better word "just" a production car.
There's a big difference in occupant protection between the two.
I couldn't imagine Disney putting it's name on the idea of getting in and driving a straight up production exotic car on a track.
 

halltd

Well-Known Member
I couldn't imagine Disney putting it's name on the idea of getting in and driving a straight up production exotic car on a track.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but the track is located on Disney property so Disney actually DID sanction the idea of both driving experiences. If they didn't think it was a good idea to have them, they wouldn't have signed on either experience.
 

ScoutN

OV 104
Premium Member
Yes - this is the track I drive at
summit-point.gif





paging @ScoutN :D

You rang? Having to miss out on NASA this weekend. The family/team I am with acquired a 2011 C6Z Carbon (see how many you can find for sale :p ) who had no idea what they had for the price of a regular Z06. So we are in the process of setting her up for some mild track events but nothing crucial given its collector status. You need more VIR in your life! Those uphill esses with a pure downforce Diasio is love.


Because like most things.. it takes an intersection of bad things happening to get really bad. I bet people go off track all the time at this place... its inevitable if you have non-pros behind the wheel. The key is you have an environment where it is safe to do so with minimal risk or damage.

Goto any track day on a real course... people make mistakes all the time and pay with their car's health. The biggest key is making sure people don't seriously injury themselves or cause damage/harm to others. Hence rules on passing, flags, vehicle checks, etc.[/QUOTE]

A Corvette out of the box is very tail happy. With full assists on it can be a bit difficult to get her swinging but is definitely doable. On a road course, oval, AutoX, drifting, it is never just "turn the wheel" like you would on an interstate exit ramp at even 55mph on one rated 25mph. You have to constantly search for and fight for grip with constant manipulation of the wheel.

For example, a 2000 Corvette FRC that I have had the pleasure of driving and working on quite a bit. The engine is around 487rwhp N/A with full PFADT suspension and bars, 335 A-Comps in the rear, 315 A-Comps on the front, and aggressive low-end tune. In this car it is being driven WITH the rear by kicking it out before beginning to turn.



Same driver in another car I have spent plenty of time around and still do. Diasio D962R at VIR. This car is racing purposed from the ground-up down to breakaway fiberglass body panels. It is a pure aero car and is at its best at speed when downforce is fully present. This is a MUCH lighter car, around 1250 pounds with driver and full fuel. Notice how even with R-Comps all around in a purpose built car he is still searching for grip nearly every turn. The level of skill to be able to execute it on the level that he does is 20 years of experience and my mentor behind the wheel.



Point behind all of this being is he has gone off track/hit cones but possesses the skill to correct better than a casual person at something like this.

The cars will feel safe when you are conservative... the thing is they are capable of providing way more power, speed, and braking than the tires can actually manage so spins are a constant risk. The computer nanny will keep most people secure in most situations, or minimize the loss of constrol... but you still can get this situation even at low speeds. Like this guy learns the hard way

Factory tires, which I have no clue if these had them, but I assume they were factory grade with a little harder compound for longevity. Regardless if they are a factory tire or A/R compound getting in over your head is an issue even in a Civic. Many times the A/R Comps can make it harder to regain control or even steer due to so much more rubber contacting the racing surface and a softer compound creating much more grip (which makes it want to track the direction of the spin even more as well as creates a higher risk for snap oversteer depending on how you try to correct).

Because like most things.. it takes an intersection of bad things happening to get really bad. I bet people go off track all the time at this place... its inevitable if you have non-pros behind the wheel. The key is you have an environment where it is safe to do so with minimal risk or damage.

One single action did not create this accident as you said. Multiple actions inside of the car and circumstances inside of the car allowed this to occur. It is never as simple as "it simply just happened" in this case, NASCAR, or any other form of racing.

Goto any track day on a real course... people make mistakes all the time and pay with their car's health. The biggest key is making sure people don't seriously injury themselves or cause damage/harm to others. Hence rules on passing, flags, vehicle checks, etc.

Summer '12 we watched a novice in a brand new '12 Boss 302 get a bad exit off Rollercoaster resulting from a hot locked up entry to 14, entry to 17 was way way off, went off track and rolled multiple times. He somehow walked away which still has many who saw it baffled.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I'm afraid I'm missing your point. Tracks are raced forwards and backwards in professional competition often

Depends on the track design. A turn's design and how it's taken consists of the turn itself, the section leading up to and after the turn. Turns are not symmetrical in their radius may differ as well through the turn. Example: note how when going down an highway exit ramp it often gets tighter the further you go into the turn?

I fail to understand why the exotic cars couldn't be turning left in the oval portion (the way they've mostly been raced on since the track was built. Also the way the RPDE stock cars drive). Help me understand, thanks!

I don't know why they setup this direction at this course... but it's not as simple as 'go the other way' in most cases.
 
Last edited:

flynnibus

Premium Member
You need more VIR in your life! Those uphill esses with a pure downforce Diasio is love.

I wish.. I'm scared to take my current 2011 5.0 on the track. Its way too much of a float-y tail spinner and since my back surgeries I haven't been putting nearly the time or money into car hobbies. So now it just scares me on the public streets.

Same driver in another car I have spent plenty of time around and still do. Diasio D962R at VIR

That one is pure clincher :) Love the hills at VIR.. more than Summit Point has.. but I'd imagine the current 'pony going airborne over that :D

One single action did not create this accident as you said. Multiple actions inside of the car and circumstances inside of the car allowed this to occur. It is never as simple as "it simply just happened" in this case, NASCAR, or any other form of racing.

Imagine if they just had a tire failure... it could get real ugly sorting out the liability in those kinds of situations.

The ride is expensive.. but not nearly enough to buy fresh rubber each session :)
 

Monorail Mike

Well-Known Member
Very tragic event, so sorry to hear this happened at the happiest place on earth.

In case anyone wants to know what you sign before getting behind the wheel at the Exotic Driving Experience, here it is.

------------------------------
WARNING!

DRIVING AND/OR RIDING IN A VEHICLE AND ALL ITS RELATED ACTIVITIES CAN BE DANGEROUS AND THERE ARE RISKS INVOLVED IN YOUR PARTICIPATION. YOU CAN BE SERIOUSLY INJURED OR EVEN KILLED AS A RESULT OF YOUR PARTICIPATION IN DRIVING AND/OR RIDING IN A VEHICLE AND ITS RELATED ACTIVITIES.

EXCULPATORY AND ASSUMPTION OF RISK AGREEMENT,RELEASE OF LIABILITY, COVENANT NOT TO SUE , AND PHOTO/RECORDING WAIVER

THIS EXCULPATORY AND ASSUMPTION OF RISK AGREEMENT, RELEASE OF LIABILITY AND COVENANT NOT TO SUE IS A LEGAL DOCUMENT. It is hereinafter referred to as “the Agreement.” The parties to this Agreement are, on one hand, myself, my heirs, my personal representatives and all others who may claim by or through me at any time including any representative(s) of my Estate and, on the other hand, Exotic Driving Experience (“EDE”), Walt Disney Park and Resorts U.S., Inc. d/b/a Walt Disney World Co., a Florida corporation (“Worldco”) and any employee, agent, representative, driver, driving instructor, contractor, shareholder, officer, director, subsidiary, affiliate, parent company, suc- cessor or assignee of EDE and/or Worldco.

I agree that my initials and signature, where indicated in this Agreement, is my acknowledgement of the contents of the paragraph in question and is my legally binding agreement to and acceptance of this Agreement’s provision. I WILL NOT SIGN OR INITIAL ANY PART OF THIS

DOCUMENT UNLESS I FULLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ITS CONTENTS. VOLUNTARY CHOICE

INITIALS [ ]

I desire to either drive or ride in a vehicle and I have come to participate in driving and/or riding in a vehicle of my own free will and not due to any inducement or duress whatsoever. I understand that part of the required consideration for being allowed to drive and/or ride in a vehicle is my

execution of all the provisions of this Agreement.

INITIALS [ ]

NATURE OF SPORT AND ASSUMPTION OF ALL ASSOCIATED RISKS

I understand that driving and/or riding in a vehicle and all its attendant activities such as driving and/or riding in a vehicle at a high rate of speed on a race track is a DANGEROUS, CALCULATED RISK activity which can, and sometimes does, result in SERIOUS, PERMANENT BODILY INJURY OR DEATH to its participants. I understand that I will be driving and/or riding in a vehicle at a high rate of speed on a race track, which is a dangerous thing to do. I understand that I can be injured or killed, EVEN IF I DO EVERYTHING AS I WAS INSTRUCTED TO DO. I am accepting these and all other accompanying risks in order to be allowed to drive and/or ride in a vehicle of my own free will and with full understanding of the possible consequences and potential dangers.

INITIALS [ ]

I hereby personally ASSUME ALL RISKS OF ANY NATURE FOR ANY DEATH, INJURY OR OTHER DAMAGES to myself, my property or the property of others which may in any way, whether foreseeable or not, arise out of my driving and/or riding in a vehicle or my use of the vehicle(s) and all accompanying facilities and equipment, and/or from the actions – specifically including negligent acts or omissions– of all persons involved either directly or indirectly in this activity. I KNOW AND FULLY APPRECIATE THAT DRIVING AND/OR RIDING IN A VEHICLE EXPOSES ME TO RISK OF SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY AND DEATH. I FULLY APPRECIATE THESE DANGERS AND VOLUNTARILY ASSUME THESE RISKS.

RELEASE AND WAIVER OF ALL CLAIMS FOR NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE

INITIALS [ ]

For valuable consideration including, but not limited to, the opportunity to participate in driving and/or riding in a vehicle, I for myself, my heirs, representatives, assigns, successors, administrators and anyone else claiming by or through me HEREBY EXPRESSLY RELEASE, DISCHARGE, HOLD HARMLESS FROM, AND WAIVE ANY AND ALL CLAIMS (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO CLAIMS FOR PROPERTY DAMAGE, PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH) – WHETHER FORESEEABLE OR NOT – ARISING FROM NEGLIGENCE, CARELESSNESS, STRICT LIABILITY, OR OTHERWISE which I may presently or at any time in the future possess against anyone associated with this event including, but not limited to: EDE, and/or Worldco any employee, agent, representative, shareholder, officer, director, subsidiary, affil- iate, parent company, successor, contractor or assignee of EDE, and/or Worldco, any promoters, participants, racing association, sanctioning organiza- tion or any subdivision thereof, track operator, track owner, officials, car owners, drivers, driving instructors, pit crews, any persons in any restricted areas, sponsors, vehicle equipment and parts manufacturer distributors and suppliers, advertisers, owners and lessees of the premises used to conduct the event and each of them, their officers and employees (all of whom are hereinafter collectively referred to as the “RELEASED PARTIES”) that are involved in my driving and/or riding in a vehicle with which the RELEASED PARTIES have any connection, or which may presently or in the future arise out of, or in any manner occur in connection with, my driving and/or riding in a vehicle in association with the RELEASED PARTIES. This Release and Waiver is meant to and shall apply to any and all claims, causes of actions, demands, or sums of money that I may have or be entitled to from any of the RELEASED PARTIES as a consequence of any type of damage (whether personal or property), loss, death or injury I, or my heirs, representatives or anyone claiming by or through me has or may in the future have as a consequence of my driving and/or riding in a vehicle activities that in any way involve the RELEASED PARTIES, and regardless of whether the claim, cause of action or demand is grounded in negligence, tort, con- tract or any other legal bases for recovery other than intentional conduct specifically intended to injure me.

RELEASE AND WAIVER OF ALL CLAIMS FOR WILLFUL AND WANTON CONDUCT

INITIALS [ ]

In addition, I on behalf of myself, my heirs, representatives, assigns and any one making claim by or through me or my Estate at any time further

EXPRESSLY RELEASE, DISCHARGE, HOLD HARMLESS FROM, AND WAIVE ANY AND ALL CLAIMS I MAY HAVE AGAINST THE RELEASED PARTIES FOR WILLFUL AND WANTON CONDUCT that I or my representatives or heirs may have either now or in the future as a consequence of any injuries, death, loss or property damage arising out of, or connected in any way with my driving and/or riding in a vehicle activities involving any or all the RELEASED PARTIES.

COVENANT NOT TO SUE

INITIALS [ ]

I agree never to institute any lawsuit or action at law or otherwise against any of the RELEASED PARTIES, nor to initiate or assist in the prosecution of any claim or cause of action for damages or injury, that I, my heirs, assigns, representatives, successors or administrators may have either now or at any time in the future by reason of any loss or injury (including death) to my person or property arising from the activities contemplated by or in this Agreement.

DAMAGES IN THE EVENT OF A BREACH OF THIS AGREEMENT

INITIALS [ ]

In the event of a breach of this Agreement by me, my heirs, my Estate or anyone acting on my behalf or through me, I AGREE AND WARRANT THAT I WILL BE LIABLE TO PAY, AND WILL PAY, EACH OF THE RELEASED PARTIES THEIR ACTUAL ATTORNEY FEES, COURT COSTS, AND OTHER EXPENSES CAUSED BY SUCH BREACH and will otherwise make them whole for any and all sums of money they have to expend because of a breach of this Agreement, and that I will otherwise be liable as provided by law. I also agree and represent that if I, my heirs, representatives, or anyone acting for or on my behalf files or threatens to file suit against any of the RELEASED PARTIES for any claim that is or may be barred and/or relinquished by this Agreement, such shall constitute a material breach of this Agreement. Notwithstanding the foregoing remedies for such a breach, I agree and warrant that the existence of such remedies in favor of the RELEASED PARTIES in no way deprives them of their other rights under this Agreement or at law including their right to have any such suit or claim I or those acting through me may bring against them barred or dismissed based on the releases and waivers set forth in this Agreement.

EDE-019 EDE & Worldco, 0102411

INITIALS [ ]

WARNING!DRIVING AND/OR RIDING IN A VEHICLE AND ALL ITS RELATED ACTIVITIES CAN BE DANGEROUS AND THERE ARE RISKS INVOLVED IN YOUR PARTICIPATION. YOU CAN BE SERIOUSLY INJURED OR EVEN KILLED AS A RESULT OF YOUR

PARTICIPATION IN DRIVING AND/OR RIDING IN A VEHICLE AND ITS RELATED ACTIVITIES.

NOTICE OF THE ENFORCEABILITY AND VALIDITY OF THIS AGREEMENT

I understand and agree that if I, or anyone on my behalf, initiates any suit or action at law against any of the RELEASED PARTIES for any loss or injury, no matter how minor or severe, to my person or property, that this document will be used in court. I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT AGREEMENTS SUCH AS THIS HAVE BEEN UPHELD IN COURT BEFORE IN CONNECTION WITH INJURIES, LOSS AND DEATH ARISING OUT OF VEHICLE DRIVING AND RIDING ACTIVITIES.

COVENANT THAT THE EVENTS COVERED BY THIS AGREEMENT ARE NOT ULTRAHAZARDOUS NOR DO THEY INVOLVE A PUBLIC SERVICE

INITIALS [ ]

I hereby affirm that, while dangerous and risky, the activities covered by this Agreement are not ultrahazardous activities for which one can be held strictly liable, nor are they activities that serve the public good or are in the public’s interest. Rather, they are recreational activities in which I

am voluntarily participating for my own enjoyment.

INITIALS [ ]

CONDITION OF HEALTH

I hereby state and represent that I am in good physical and mental health and am able to withstand the physical and mental stresses inherent in the activities contemplated by this Agreement. I further state and affirm that I am unaware of any health-related problem that may affect my ability to participate, if I so chose, in the activities contemplated by this Agreement. I further state and affirm that I am not presently taking any drugs, prescription or otherwise, including any controlled substances which may impair my ability to participate in the driving activities. I HEREBY STATE AND AFFIRM THAT I WILL NOT USE ALCOHOL, CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, OR OTHER DRUGS THAT MAY AFFECT MY ABILITY TO DRIVE PRIOR TO OR DURING THE EVENTS CONTEMPLATED BY THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME. I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS PROVISION IS NOT INTENDED TO COVER MY USE OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS THAT HAVE NO AFFECT ON MY ABILITY TO SAFELY OPERATE A MOTOR VEHICLE.

Do you have normal vision, or do you wear corrective lenses? ( ) NORMAL ( ) CORRECTIVE If you have corrective lenses, are you wearing them and

INITIALS [ ]

will you wear them during all activities contemplated by this agreement? ( ) YES ( ) NO VALID DRIVER’S LICENSE

I agree that I WILL NOT DRIVE AND/OR RIDE IN THE VEHICLE unless I have no reservations about the drive and/or ride and that if I feel, at any time, that I am not qualified or able to make the drive and/or ride, regardless of the extent of my training or the application of that train- ing, I will not do so. I AFFIRM AND AGREE THAT EACH AND EVERY TIME I RIDE IN OR DRIVE A VEHICLE, THE ACT OF DRIVING AND/OR RIDING IS THE SOLE AND CONCLUSIVE PROOF THAT MY ABILITY AND TRAINING WERE ADEQUATE FOR THE RISKS INVOLVED.

I hereby state that I currently am in possession of a valid driver’s license issued to me by the State of

License Number and further affirm that my privileges to use any and all facilities or equipment referred to herein will CEASE should my driver’s license be suspended or revoked for any reason. I further promise to inform EDE and/or Worldco immediately of any such suspension or revocation. INITIALS [ ]
TRAINING

PHOTO/RECORDING

INITIALS [ ]

HEREBY agrees that EDE and/or Worldco may photograph, film or otherwise record my image and voice (“Recordings”) and I hereby irrevoca- bly grant these parties the right as the owner of such Recordings to use the Recordings in any and all media in connection as it determines, in its sole dis-

cretion. I hereby expressly waive any right of inspection or approval of the use of the Recordings.

INITIALS [ ]

LEGAL AGE OF CONTRACT

I hereby state that I am of lawful age (18 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER) and legally competent to execute this Agreement and further understand that the terms contained herein are contractual in nature, and not a mere recital and that I have executed this agreement of my own free will.

NOTICE OF OPPORTUNITY TO CONSULT LEGAL COUNSEL

INITIALS [ ]

I understand that I am in no way obligated to sign this Agreement and, further, that I AM FREE TO SEEK THE ADVICE OF INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL at my own expense prior to signing this Agreement and that any advice, suggestions, or statements made by any of the

RELEASED PARTIES are not binding upon them unless they are set forth in this Agreement.

INITIALS [ ]

CONTINUATION OF OBLIGATIONS

I hereby agree and acknowledge that all the terms and conditions of this Agreement shall continue in full force and effect now and in the future at all times during which I participate either directly or indirectly in driving and/or riding in a vehicle, or while associated with, any of the RELEASED PARTIES, and all the terms of this Agreement shall be binding upon my heirs, assigns, representatives, successors and administrators of my estate.

AGREEMENT TO BE INTERPRETED IN FAVOR OF THE RELEASED PARTIES

INITIALS [ ]

I understand that this Agreement applies to all phases of my involvement in driving and/or riding in a vehicle activities involving the RELEASED PARTIES and it is my intention that this document be BROADLY CONSTRUED in favor of any and all of the RELEASED PARTIES

and AGAINST ME and that any and all ambiguities in it be resolved in favor of the RELEASED PARTIES. VALIDITY/ENFORCEABILITY IN WHOLE AND IN PART

INITIALS [ ]

This is a legally binding contract. If a Court should decide that any clause or other portion of this contract is illegal or unenforceable, I agree that such a determination shall not affect the validity and enforceability of the remaining provisions hereof, all of which shall remain in full force and effect.

EMERGENCY NOTIFICATION IN CASE OF ACCIDENT

INITIALS [ ]

NOTIFY:

PHONE:
I have carefully read this entire Agreement, without any time constraints being placed upon me, and fully understand and agree to be bound by
its contents. I am aware that by signing this contract I AM GIVING UP IMPORTANT LEGAL RIGHTS AND IT IS MY INTENTION TO DO SO FREELY AND WITHOUT COERCION OR DURESS OF ANY TYPE.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I really don't know where your coming from on this but I have done the Skip Barber School's have trained with the guys from Pursuit, and Filmotechnic and have the ability to do precision driving for features. Yes, a super car with that kind of power plant can get out of control very, very easily, and very, very quickly. That car involved in the crash does 0-60 in under 4 seconds, has almost 400 ftlbs of torque were you to stomp on it ... it has 550 hp ... the e-gears can be super tricky to master ... you can lose it in first gear if your not careful.

I have driven M5's, Vipers, R8's, several Porsche's and even had the opportunity to drive a Bugatti Veyro ... it is simple ... if you dont respect the car it wont respect you ... , and one day of training on a course with an instructor does not make an individual an expert by any means.

It is horrible when an accident like this happens and I feel terrible for the victims family and friends, but when you put a rookie behind the wheel of a 3000lb 500hp exotic ... it's not a matter of if an accident will happen it's a matter of when.

What was the Veyron like to drive?, I tend to drive things geared very low where when you depress the accelerator the road moves back...
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid I'm missing your point. Tracks are raced forwards and backwards in professional competition often. I fail to understand why the exotic cars couldn't be turning left in the oval portion (the way they've mostly been raced on since the track was built. Also the way the RPDE stock cars drive). Help me understand, thanks!

Your question is better posed to the folks that run the racetrack and the folks at the Exotic Driving Experience.
 

Monorail Mike

Well-Known Member
In their video they only get up to about 120.... That's pretty tame for that much car. I would do more than that on the track in my street z - and no those cars aren't tubed out with roll cages either... Just track day cars[/QUOTE]

They also cover the speedometer, so you really don't know how fast you're going.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom