Creepy New Survey Question....

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
There are already methods in place to collect data outside of bulk collection of everyone's information, that is the purpose of a warrant and court systems. Intelligence agencies do actually date back centuries. But what this ignores is that all of that technology can't yet pry into the thoughts of a person who decides to act alone. It can't read a hand written note that is burned after being read. It can't break any and all encryption tools. Most of these terrorists you are hoping to catch don't have big red flags that would be found with more prying. They know to not be blatant. You're whole process needs not just data collection but the criminalization of mundane activities, which is why even you do actually have something to hide.

I can see your point. But honestly, I would laugh my *** off if the government came to me about terrorism (despite my CJ background) and told me that the items I bought recently could be made to make a bomb. Again, I can see your point. :)
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I can see your point. But honestly, I would laugh my *** off if the government came to me about terrorism (despite my CJ background) and told me that the items I bought recently could be made to make a bomb. Again, I can see your point. :)
You may laugh but it is a scenario that has occurred. And how do you prove that they are not for a bomb? You're not being investigated making a bomb, but the suspicion that you could.
 

Unplugged

Well-Known Member
With all this discussion and exchange of information, perhaps Imagineering can finally release their design for the never built Tomorrowland 1984. It was supposed to get people thinking by presenting the Orwellian future that would hopefully never be. The CMs would wear all grey uniforms in Tomorrowland with guests wearing little tracking tags and "register" their ride and dining choices in advance following an over seer rule set. CMs would walk around with portable readers and could scan your tags remotely without you knowing. At the end of your visit, you'd receive a photo taken from one of the many hidden cameras and a sheet of all your transactions.

...now that I think about it, I think they pulled on over on us!
 

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
You may laugh but it is a scenario that has occurred. And how do you prove that they are not for a bomb? You're not being investigated making a bomb, but the suspicion that you could.

They still have to prove it was for a bomb. I understand where you're coming from. I just don't allow that fear to run my decision making facilities. I have decided that I see no harm in companies/US government collecting data on me. Trust me. I am no wild spender and I am no hoarder. If I have something then I have a good/provable reason to have it.

Except for one time when I was 17... Some friends and I were out driving on some back country roads around here heading to one of our houses. We had two cases of beer (hence using backroads only) and we get pulled over. The officer got us all out of the car (5 people in a 1990 Mustang), lined us up in front of the car and asked to search the car. It was my freinds car and after several attempts to get him to actually speak to the officer (remember the beer?) the officer finally said "Let me tell you what I am looking for. Someone has been blowing up mailboxes with pipe bombs and they are driving a wine colored mustang like this." The relief that swept over us was palpable. We were not the idiots doing that so my friend gave permission to search the vehicle. The officer found the beer and just said"I'll pretend I didn't see that. (Small town here) However, when he got to the hatch and opened the back he found two lengths of pipe. You could almost hear everyone's butt cinch up all at once. :eek: I think the only thing that saved our rear ends that night was that the officer knew who we were and that we were not stupid enough to make pipe bombs. He let us go and they found the idiots doing it the next night.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
They still have to prove it was for a bomb. I understand where you're coming from. I just don't allow that fear to run my decision making facilities. I have decided that I see no harm in companies/US government collecting data on me. Trust me. I am no wild spender and I am no hoarder. If I have something then I have a good/provable reason to have it.
No, they do not have to prove it was for a bomb because the crime is not intent to make a bomb, but suspicion that you could make a bomb. You can't prove that you are unable to make a bomb because you clearly have the supplies. Your intent is unimportant. This is the only way to get the preemptive safety you desire.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
They still have to prove it was for a bomb. I understand where you're coming from. I just don't allow that fear to run my decision making facilities. I have decided that I see no harm in companies/US government collecting data on me. Trust me. I am no wild spender and I am no hoarder. If I have something then I have a good/provable reason to have it.

Except for one time when I was 17... Some friends and I were out driving on some back country roads around here heading to one of our houses. We had two cases of beer (hence using backroads only) and we get pulled over. The officer got us all out of the car (5 people in a 1990 Mustang), lined us up in front of the car and asked to search the car. It was my freinds car and after several attempts to get him to actually speak to the officer (remember the beer?) the officer finally said "Let me tell you what I am looking for. Someone has been blowing up mailboxes with pipe bombs and they are driving a wine colored mustang like this." The relief that swept over us was palpable. We were not the idiots doing that so my friend gave permission to search the vehicle. The officer found the beer and just said"I'll pretend I didn't see that. (Small town here) However, when he got to the hatch and opened the back he found two lengths of pipe. You could almost hear everyone's butt cinch up all at once. :eek: I think the only thing that saved our rear ends that night was that the officer knew who we were and that we were not stupid enough to make pipe bombs. He let us go and they found the idiots doing it the next night.

Actually It's YOUR job to prove that you did not INTEND to create an IED,

All they have to do is show that you INTENDED to create an IED. People who shoot using muzzle loading rifles usually have cans of black powder, What if they have pipes and string. The TV news will sensationalize that as 'IED making materials' while in reality the guy is a plumber who happens to enjoy shooting antique firearms.

NOW do you see the problem.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
With all this discussion and exchange of information, perhaps Imagineering can finally release their design for the never built Tomorrowland 1984. It was supposed to get people thinking by presenting the Orwellian future that would hopefully never be. The CMs would wear all grey uniforms in Tomorrowland with guests wearing little tracking tags and "register" their ride and dining choices in advance following an over seer rule set. CMs would walk around with portable readers and could scan your tags remotely without you knowing. At the end of your visit, you'd receive a photo taken from one of the many hidden cameras and a sheet of all your transactions.

...now that I think about it, I think they pulled on over on us!


Yes, Yes they did and we should be ashamed of ourselves.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Well, various Disney sponsors and business partners. If a particular item produced by them is selling well, I don't see why Disney wouldn't pass on that information.
They wouldn't have to pass that information along. They would know by how much Disney is purchasing.. Rest assured they might say it's selling well, but, that is all they have to do. Who Disney has individually sold to is of absolutely no importance to them. They may do some foolish things, but, they didn't get where they are by giving away information or even selling it if it jeopardizes their own business. And business partners are part an parcel of the Disney Company. They wouldn't have the incentive to need to know, it gives them nothing. Knowing that I, personally, bought a t-shirt is useless information and tells them nothing that they don't already know. Any other information they might want is connected to my credit cards and about a billion other sources not only currently available, but, has been mined and known for a long time before anyone ever heard of a magic band. It just silliness. Now it they start asking how many guns I own, my address and whether or not I lock my doors, then worry.
 

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
No, they do not have to prove it was for a bomb because the crime is not intent to make a bomb, but suspicion that you could make a bomb. You can't prove that you are unable to make a bomb because you clearly have the supplies. Your intent is unimportant. This is the only way to get the preemptive safety you desire.

Ok. You have your opinion.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Target would be one. They are a big merchandise partner with Disney. Credit agencies might be another. They keep adding more and more data metrics to their scoring.

All of the current prying hasn't made anyone safer. You accuse others of paranoia and that is the entire basis for your position. You don't know what is actually happening or how it impacts many people but are convinced this all must be because someone is out to get you. More data can just as easily be utilized to coordinate larger, more deadly acts of terrorism.
Target? You mean that Disney might share with them what particular Disney item sells well so that Disney can share in the profit from the sales of a item sold to them for resale? Throw them in jail, that seems like an awful thing to do. Wait, now that I think about it that doesn't seem like anything other a normal course of business. It's like McDonalds telling their franchise owners what items sell the best and, in some cases, insisting that they carry that item. They even know who bought it if we used anything other then cash. Does that mean that they have shared any information that is in anyway harmful or invading my privacy. Or perhaps the fact that I often purchase McD's Sausage Burrito that if there is an uprising in Mexico I am a prime suspect for being a supporter of whatever the cause is. Awful glad that I seldom dine in a Taco Bell.

I know this conversation is expanding well beyond common sense, but, governmental information gathering is not what we are talking about here. If they can figure out that I'm a terrorist because I rode on Jungle Cruise, then more power to them. Let's keep this conversation focused on what harm is likely to come to us, individually, from the information that is gleaned from a magic band that they don't have already before Magic Bands were ever heard of. We must compartmentalize our concerns to those that have no significance to us in a negative way and something that is a matter of national security. I suppose that armed with the information they might be able to conclude that due to the fact that we spend so much time discussing the negative results of Disney knowing what part of the park we are in, we are all deep in arrested development and therefore open to being easily overtaken. All they have to do is show up at our door dressed as Mickey Mouse. Let's save the tin hats for something worth worrying about, not what world wide governmental surveillance this is part of, because frankly, it isn't.
 
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Progress.City

Well-Known Member
George Orwell almost got it right. It's private companies who are now Big Brother, not the government. Well, now that I think about it, with NSA and all, it's both.

If this technology ever gets into the wrong hands (hint, hint, November is nearby), it'll be Big Brother for sure.
 

Unplugged

Well-Known Member
George Orwell almost got it right. It's private companies who are now Big Brother, not the government. Well, now that I think about it, with NSA and all, it's both.

If this technology ever gets into the wrong hands (hint, hint, November is nearby), it'll be Big Brother for sure.

Considering it's BIG business that is buying off the government to get their way, lobbying for the laws that work in their favor, and it's big business gathering the data on us to hand off to the government, it's really a commercialism conspiracy. We have a lot of work ahead of us to take this country back!
 

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
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JohnD

Well-Known Member
Except that Disney would be a idiots to tell others what their customers are buying. Friendly competition is one thing, but, telling your competition what your customers buy would be insane. As far as I can tell Disney does a huge amount of mining, but, it is for their own benefit, not to benefit others in the same business. I have never seen anything, not generated by Disney, show up online that could even be remotely connected to them selling information only using the information they accumulated. Facebook, on the other hand has picked up on everything I have ever said. Last year I mentioned to friends on Facebook that I had been diagnosed with Prostate Cancer. Want to guess what shows up on my computer every day. If you guessed, Prostate treatments, one after the other, congratulations. Course that could be age too, but, I was old before last summer and never saw those ads.

I would attribute that to your researching prostate cancer (who wouldn't?). If you haven't cleared your cache you probably collected cookies on your computer. Ergo prostrate cancer ads. It's like going to the WDW website then finding WDW ads on any other website that features ads.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Considering it's BIG business that is buying off the government to get their way, lobbying for the laws that work in their favor, and it's big business gathering the data on us to hand off to the government, it's really a commercialism conspiracy. We have a lot of work ahead of us to take this country back!

Lol.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Ok. You have your opinion.
It's not opinion. Such laws already exist.

Target? You mean that Disney might share with them what particular Disney item sells well so that Disney can share in the profit from the sales of a item sold to them for resale? Throw them in jail, that seems like an awful thing to do. Wait, now that I think about it that doesn't seem like anything other a normal course of business. It's like McDonalds telling their franchise owners what items sell the best and, in some cases, insisting that they carry that item. They even know who bought it if we used anything other then cash. Does that mean that they have shared any information that is in anyway harmful or invading my privacy. Or perhaps the fact that I often purchase McD's Sausage Burrito that if there is an uprising in Mexico I am a prime suspect for being a supporter of whatever the cause is. Awful glad that I seldom dine in a Taco Bell.

I know this conversation is expanding well beyond common sense, but, governmental information gathering is not what we are talking about here. If they can figure out that I'm a terrorist because I rode on Jungle Cruise, then more power to them. Let's keep this conversation focused on what harm is likely to come to us, individually, from the information that is gleaned from a magic band that they don't have already before Magic Bands were ever heard of. We must compartmentalize our concerns to those that have no significance to us in a negative way and something that is a matter of national security. I suppose that armed with the information they might be able to conclude that due to the fact that we spend so much time discussing the negative results of Disney knowing what part of the park we are in, we are all deep in arrested development and therefore open to being easily overtaken. All they have to do is show up at our door dressed as Mickey Mouse. Let's save the tin hats for something worth worrying about, not what world wide governmental surveillance this is part of, because frankly, it isn't.
The unrelated essays don't hide that you have no relevant point. You wanted to know an entity that would be interested in purchasing Disney's data and you've said nothing to refute why Target would not be interested.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
It's not opinion. Such laws already exist.


The unrelated essays don't hide that you have no relevant point. You wanted to know an entity that would be interested in purchasing Disney's data and you've said nothing to refute why Target would not be interested.
And you have said absolutely nothing to tell me why they would be interested in the detailed information that you are implying. So let's call it a draw, you aren't saying why and I did, but, I just added one last thing to it... Who gives a damn!
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
And you have said absolutely nothing to tell me why they would be interested in the detailed information that you are implying. So let's call it a draw, you aren't saying why and I did, but, I just added one last thing to it... Who gives a damn!
Target's data collection is well known and publicized.
 

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