News Crazy fight in Toontown

[TROR]

Anyway, there’s nothing wrong with poor people or rich people or uneducated people or educated people or black or white. What matters is that Disneyland costs $150 for one park one day and that’s a lot of money, money that warrants guests to not have to experience trashy people. As long as we can all agree this is trashy and people like this shouldn’t be in the park, we can get along.

 

[andysol]

i think part of the reasoning is that the women in question was also being aggresive and she continued to be aggressive.

I think there's a few reasons. If the guy was drunk and 5' 5", people would've also been more inclined to help.
That guy was big and imposing, so that certainly plays a role.

It's just the "that isn't their job" nonsense that's being spouted here. Say it's a 5' tall 100 lb woman just wailing on her 2 year old. Should they intervene then, or is it still not their job? The lady was defenseless and completely helpless and the guy had 2 feet and 150 Lbs on her. It's not so dissimilar of a comparison. Who cares if you get fired. Who cares if you get sued. Doing what is inherently the right thing to do should transcend anything else.

The whole argument is silly, really. And only in 2019 would it actually be an argument. What a weak, selfish society/people we've become.

 

[Stripes]

If you can afford a trip to Disney, you definitely aren't poor.

People go to Disney that can't afford it. How high is credit card debt?

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

this thread's bound for the political subforum, says i...

And we all know who is steering it there

 

[networkpro]

So anyone who fights at DL must be from a neighborhood where fighting is acceptable.

I’m sure that’s what you meant.

They only act the way that they were brought up, so there are some sociological issues there. I don't see any good problem-solving skills exhibited by any of the family members. Age, race, nor socioeconomic status are indicators of civilized behaviour. I've seen plenty of Disney meltdowns in WDW by well-dressed families with all the current hot gadgets and gizmos. Golf widows with 2.5 kids all in the same stroller in MK, Dads left with the kids while mom just walks off screaming... lots of things surface as stresses peak not so pleasantly or privately.

 

[brb1006]

this thread's bound for the political subforum, says i...

Any minute now.

 

[DanielBB8]

There is a time and a place for everything. The guy that actually ended the situation did not put himself into harms way and possibly prevented others from being seriously injured. It’s not like he got in the guys face and escalated the thing. I don’t know when he first started witnessing the violence, but when he chose to insert himself into it was when then guy was facing the other direction. He simply took the guys back and put him to sleep. There were many points where any number of people could have done the same thing while he was attacking those women. If you don’t know what you are doing call someone who does. If you do know what you are doing, why wouldn’t you stop some lunatic from attacking another human being?

They put him down only temporarily. He stood right back up and walked right up to the woman he just hit earlier. Those guys are big. This is not an example of how security should be conducted. Security didn't restrain him at all after belatedly showing up.

 

[HoldenC]

Never seen this kind of trash during Food and Wine.

 

[bclane]

They put him down only temporarily. He stood right back up and walked right up to the woman he just hit earlier. Those guys are big. This is not an example of how security should be conducted. Security didn't restrain him at all after belatedly showing up.

Well thank God he was only put to sleep temporarily. Once you let someone out of the submission, blood starts flowing back to the brain and you wake up. That’s how it’s supposed to work and evidence it was done properly. I’m not advocating for crushing the guys wind pipe or something. Having said that, security should have taken over at that point and restrained the guy...especially now there was a bunch of them there...but did you notice how the fight was over. He wasn’t hitting anyone anymore.

 

[Ismael Flores]

I think there's a few reasons. If the guy was drunk and 5' 5", people would've also been more inclined to help.
That guy was big and imposing, so that certainly plays a role.

It's just the "that isn't their job" nonsense that's being spouted here. Say it's a 5' tall 100 lb woman just wailing on her 2 year old. Should they intervene then, or is it still not their job? The lady was defenseless and completely helpless and the guy had 2 feet and 150 Lbs on her. It's not so dissimilar of a comparison. Who cares if you get fired. Who cares if you get sued. Doing what is inherently the right thing to do should transcend anything else.

The whole argument is silly, really. And only in 2019 would it actually be an argument. What a weak, selfish society/people we've become.

That is just it, this women was NOT defenseless. In this situation she was one of the aggressors and at certain time of the video the man even tells her to just leave it and go but she insisted on continuing the arguement and looked for the continuation of the fight. You can even say that she added to the angerment of the man which obviously has anger issues. They did not look to be strangers and obviously knew what each of them are capable off and it would not surprise me if this is not the first time they brawled.

If the women was like you say defenseless then it would be a different situation but she wasn't. Did she deserve the reaction she got from that man? of course not but she is not innocent in this situation.

I also believe that many in the area probably had children with them since they were in toontown. Why should they jump in and get involved when they have responsibility to show some dignity and calmness in front of their children instead of making the issue greater. That is NOT cowardness that is discipline and the need to protect their own family and not lower themselves to the level of those creating a scene in a place filled with children

 

[GingerGirl3]

Why not have officers visible? It’s the best deterrent and they are the ones who can and will be able to deal effectively with situations like this. Were they ever visible? Security guards standing around isn’t always going to be enough since they cannot engage. Especially now when it’s clear to all they won’t intervene. Plus an undercover officer stepping in will not have the same immediate impact as a recognizable police uniform.

 

[Snow Queen]

Man, Disney security's gone downhill since the 80s. A family brawl in the middle of Toontown takes several minutes before they show up, two guys dancing together in the 80s and security could break that up before you can say Videopolis.

 

[AVAC Juice]

Man, Disney security's gone downhill since the 90s. A family brawl in the middle of Toontown takes several minutes before they show up, two guys dancing together in the 90s and security could break that up before you can say Videopolis.

Plenty of cast and higher ups were around according to the video but kind of looked lost as to what to do.

It's as if DLR H.R. Dept./ Team Nightmare Disney Legal binded their individual hands and collective WILL upon further observing the full video.

I refuse to believe that in a sane kingdom these violent perpetrators would be let go into the night as they were.

I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't given restaurant vouchers and apologized to along the way.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Why not have officers visible? It’s the best deterrent and they are the ones who can and will be able to deal effectively with situations like this. Were they ever visible? Security guards standing around isn’t always going to be enough since they cannot engage. Especially now when it’s clear to all they won’t intervene. Plus an undercover officer stepping in will not have the same immediate impact as a recognizable police uniform.

It has been Disneyland's policy since it opened.

Whether that is Good or Bad, well, there are good and bad things about it.

Due to my associations with facilities security in general (government related), I will opt to say no more.

 

[Nland316]

A bit embarrassing and inexcusable that more guests went out of their way to take action than there were CM’s/security.. Understand the reasoning but it just looks so bad.

 

[TP2000]

Let's break this down to see how and when the CM's respond, in relation to the violence and the defensive actions of other park visitors.



0:01 - Video starts and fight is already well underway. Visitors responding in alarm.
0:05 - Man #1 throws first punches at Woman #1.
0:19 - First punches are thrown between Man #1 and Man #2.
0:26 - Man #2 throws first punches at Woman #2.
0:35 - First male park visitors steps in between punches and tries to break up fight.
0:50 - Elderly park janitor walks into the middle of ongoing fight, tries to actively calm combatants.
1:10 - Woman #1 and Woman #2 start throwing punches at each other, Woman #3 hit and thrown to ground.
1:12 - Disneyland Manager #1 walks up, then backs away and starts talking on phone as injured lay on ground.
1:30 - Disneyland Manager #1 completes phone call (understandably probably called 911)
1:40 - Multiple women hit by Man #1 and multiple park visitors swarm him and physically restrain him. Manager #1 has disappeared.
2:00 - Multiple injured parties laying on ground. More park visitors involved now. More punches.
2:30 - Uniformed security guard first seen in background, apparently been there for awhile. Doing nothing to prevent ongoing violence.
2:40 - Violence against women gets very bad, security guard 5 yards away continues to walk further away while many visitors jump in.
3:00 - Park visitors choke violent man on ground, multiple injured on ground, security guards and managers still do not approach.
3:25 - Several more security guards arrive and finally tell folks to "calm down", park visitors are attending to the wounded on ground.
4:10 - Security and managers are visibly frazzled and disorganized, and trail after the arguing family as they leave Toontown on their own.
4:20 - Video ends but still no one appears to be in charge. Violent offenders and the injured are wandering away in small groups.

The first minute of this trashy behavior would take anyone by surprise, so no blame there. But after the two minute mark there are managers and uniformed security guards doing absolutely nothing to stop the extreme violence against women on display. Even as the video ends the security team has arrived and don't seem to have a plan or strategy in how to control the situation. They appear to be mainly observers afraid or incapable of preventing additional violence to park visitors.

The response from park management and security present on the scene and their inability to even try to prevent further injury to park visitors from the one minute mark to the four minute mark is a real problem here, folks.

 

[TP2000]

To be fair that is one big giant. Even the big offensive lineman looking guy with the hat didn't really get involved other than directing traffic.

But watch it at this point, when the short white guy gets right in the middle of it trying to calm then down. Fearless!



Appearances here are really unflattering to Disneyland management and security. Four minutes into an epic street brawl they just look inept and spineless and disorganized.

 

[The_Mesh_Hatter]

Anyone think it’s possible those plain clothed “guests” are actually undercover security cast members?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Anyway, there’s nothing wrong with poor people or rich people or uneducated people or educated people or black or white. What matters is that Disneyland costs $150 for one park one day and that’s a lot of money, money that warrants guests to not have to experience trashy people. As long as we can all agree this is trashy and people like this shouldn’t be in the park, we can get along.

One could argue the higher prices lead to more entitled guests.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I'd be interested to know what the general wisdom from experts was in terms of how unarmed people including security personnel should act in this kind of situation. I honestly have no idea, but it is possible that the reality is that jumping into the middle of a fight is generally not a good response for any number of reasons. It's very easy to assert that of course people should jump in, but I can see the argument that doing so without sufficient backup usually just serves to escalate matters and cause more injuries.

What looks worse to me is the fact this violent situation just seems to be playing out in the middle of Disneyland without anyone even jumping in to prevent other guests from wandering into the middle of it. I can understand not jumping into a fight without enough force to back you up, particularly if you've been trained not to. I find it stranger there was no effort made to clear the area or hold people back.