Country Bear Jamboree closing for lengthy refurbishment in August

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Oh, Tom, I know the story was a plant. ... I'm just trying to figure who pushed for it and who the favor really was for.

I don't know about the story being a plant, it is more of an interest piece, Disney tries to update politically incorrect attraction. When Disney took out some un-PC stuff in PIrates, the general media saw a story. Not so sure the story is a "favor", (the quoted my "garbage" appraisal of going-ons in Frontierland, and specifically Country Bear), and they made the current show seem very un-politically correct.

Look at the title of the article and a blurb:

Despite Fans’ Fears, Disney’s Country Bears Remain Corny

Trixie, an obese animatronic bear with a boozy performance (“Tears Will Be the Chaser for Your Wine”), might also be in trouble.

The article sounds like something the Onion would write, "Country Bear Jamboree fans worried that corny jokes and boozy bears will be removed."

Don't think that the story was a "plant", as while Disney got to tell their side of the story, so did fans.
 

Atomicmickey

Well-Known Member
No, trust me...it was planted. It's a spin piece, salted with just enough negative comments to seem "unbiased".
I'm fairly confident we'll be learning the origins of that piece in the coming days...

My question is, to what purpose would someone plant a story in the New York Times
about the Country Bear Jamboree?

I'm not arguing that someone called in some favors, because it seems so odd.
What I'm wondering is who would think "yeah, the New York Times. Let's do that.
Because, what we really want to achieve is ____________"

Those are the answers that'll be interesting to have.
 

Lee

Adventurer
My question is, to what purpose would someone plant a story in the New York Times
about the Country Bear Jamboree?

I'm not arguing that someone called in some favors, because it seems so odd.
What I'm wondering is who would think "yeah, the New York Times. Let's do that.
Because, what we really want to achieve is ____________"

Those are the answers that'll be interesting to have.
Exactly.
It was an extremely unnecessary move, in my opinion, and one that will likely do more harm than good in most circles.
Can't wait to learn more...
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
No, trust me...it was planted. It's a spin piece, salted with just enough negative comments to seem "unbiased".
I'm fairly confident we'll be learning the origins of that piece in the coming days...

I've seen puff pieces for travel/arts/living columns . . . they plainly state the positives of whatever "hidden restaurant", or even those "secrets of WDW" type pieces. This sure ain't a puff piece. If it was, somebody is going to be pretty upset at TDO when they read it. Sure, I guess any press is good press if they spell your name right, but the article also references this message board, notorious for being full of malcontents. I think Disney might have approached, or been approached, for an interview, but the content of the article they didn't have control over, IMHO.
 

Figment82

Well-Known Member
I got the chance to go the show in person today, and although I had prepared myself by watching the video beforehand, it was still painful to watch. The lobby area was surprisingly packed, and we arrived with less than 3 minutes until the next show. Unfortunately, that meant that we were in the second to last row and the sound, as previously reported, was just as muffled as before. The audience was really getting into it the whole time - they were already clapping when the Bear Rugs first came out. However, the clapping quickly stopped when people realized they couldn't hear the bears on top of it. Pretty pathetic...

Most of the cuts are just silly and unnecessary - but the sloppiest one in my opinion is with my favorite bears, Bunny, Bubbles, and Beulah. They cut the second "Nothing ever seems to work for me" from the end (why? were those 10 seconds so necessary?), but the slideshow ends on that verse, even when they're already singing the "doodle doodle doo bum bum" part. So they couldn't even match up the slides to the edited song - plus they weren't correctly aligned with the screen.

The funniest part of the show was when Trixie's curtain opened and a little girl screamed out "SHE'S FAT!!" Watch out kid - if you keep saying things like that, they'll cut Trixie out altogether, and not just the little jokes.

If Henry does do the "eyebrow gag", there are no lights shining on him so you can't tell. And if he is, I couldn't see from the back.

The show looks great (Melvin, Max, and Buff especially) but the cuts are just cringe-worthy to me. It just doesn't have any heart anymore - which was the very reason I fell in love with it so many years ago.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
I was just wondering...would the dialogue in the show be easier to understand if it was slowed down a little? I remember watching a voice coach on TV some time ago saying that when people have either a high-pitched or distinctive voice, it's best if they slow down their speech, because their listeners will hear the funny/unusual voice first, focus on it, and be a bit behind in understanding the dialogue. I bet that trick would work for the Country Bears.
 

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
I was just wondering...would the dialogue in the show be easier to understand if it was slowed down a little? I remember watching a voice coach on TV some time ago saying that when people have either a high-pitched or distinctive voice, it's best if they slow down their speech, because their listeners will hear the funny/unusual voice first, focus on it, and be a bit behind in understanding the dialogue. I bet that trick would work for the Country Bears.
I agree. Speaking more slowly would help CBJ fans.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I doubt many here will like what I'm going to tell you because it's not simple and it's not straightforward and I've noticed in the Disney fan community that many people only see three things: black, white and Pixie Dust.

The story might as well have been co-written by Bruce Vaughn. But I'd encourage anyone here who read it and thinks they really understood the meaning and intent to go back and reread it, slowly and carefully. Take each sentence apart before posting anything here.

First, let me tell you what the story was NOT about. That would be the Country Bear Jamboree. If you think that's what it was about, you're mistaken.

Let's look at a bit from said story:

<<The overhaul “was done with a lot of love,” said Bruce E. Vaughn, chief creative executive at Walt Disney Imagineering. “You want to be really sensitive to the original spirit. But tastes also change, how people consume media changes. We must keep our product relevant.” >>

While I love the Spirited reference (no, I don't think Bruce was speaking to anyone in particular), you need to understand that the quote is what the story is about and more to the point Next Gen. Yes, that story was Disney's first push in the big time mainstream media to talk about how they're about to reinvent (destroy completely?) the Disney park-going experience.

It's the proverbial shot across the bow so when they continue to tinker with classic attractions like Mansion, Pirates, BTMRR, Small World with everything from unneeded queues to interactive effects that break immediately to mermaid projections, they can say they are doing it for us. Well, not for those of us who remember what Disney was say in the 60s-90s, but us as in the fan community that often because we don't want 'our' Disney World to be museum. Old Dead Guy Walt said he didn't want that for his worldwide empire of parks he was planning (along with his timeshare and hotel empire) when he sat on that bench watching Diane and Sharon on the merry go round munching on peanuts.

I'm sure y'all saw the museum reference in that story. Got it's own paragraph so no one would miss it.

Disney must be relevant says Bruce. I wonder where he was (well, I know where he was) when WDW was crumbling from a decade plus of abject neglect and the least capital investment as was possible.

Tastes change, after all. Of course, I never did see CBJ plagued by disinterest even when Disney allowed it (like many attractions in O-Town) to fall into disrepair.

This was also the 'nothing is untouchable so when we remove the CoP or take seven minutes out of the AA understand we are doing so because of the iPad and sites like WDWMAGIC, not because our parks are packed capacity-wise, our FP+ program will make things many times worse and we have no intentions of adding attractions regularly to our parks because well, we aren't Universal' message for fanbois.

I see some posts above, including by one of the folks who was mentioned in the piece (enjoy the 15 minutes while they last, we can't all be Jon Cryer!) talking about this couldn't possibly be placed by Disney because it has GULP!!!, GASP!!!, GROAN!!! ... negative comments in it.

There are some to be sure. But the New York Times isn't the Disney Parks Blog and Brooks isn't Blondie, Tommy or one of the Too Many Jasons. There has to be the appearance of being fair and balanced. And the overriding nature of the story is quite positive. The arching feature was that fans are too hypercritical and focusing on those pesky little things instead of living in reality.

You may not get why those comments are in there, but just the fact the Times went the VERY unusual route for them of quoting fans on fan forums and in the Twitterverse is another tacit message that it's all about technology for Disney. Why phone an expert on the entertainment industry when a fanboi's rant can be pulled up immediately and used like an anonymous source (of course, a little push in the right direction from 'someone' at Disney likely made it much easier for Brooks, the pride of Montana)?

Of course, no posts relating to the REAL reason the show was hacked (to improve daily turnstile counts) made it into that story, did they? When Mickey is helping write a story, you must understand the story gets written with one less finger.

Back to the story:
<<The faster pace, Mr. Vaughn said, reflects the speedier way that people speak today and the rise of interactive media. It’s not necessarily that attention spans are shorter, he said, it’s that kids raised on video games are not as accustomed to more passive entertainment experiences. >>

Huh? ... I thought we were reading a piece on those good old Country Bears (also known as some of Lee's kin!), yet now we're talking once more about interactivity? What exactly does interactivity and connectivity have to do with the show?

It may be hard to grasp that, but understand what I am telling you IS the truth. I have worked in media and PR and I know of what I speak.

As for Bruce's role, I can't help but wonder if he read the story before an editor did. I've seen stories on Disney in the Times and countless publications. The one thing they have in common is they ALWAYS get things wrong. Names, dates, history ... small facts that only fanbois (and a select group of them at that) would know. This story is 100% clean. There aren't any mistakes that jump out at you and you say "wait, the Hall of Presidents didn't move from DL ... or Space Mountain didn't open in 1972 ... or it isn't the Main Street Light Parade.'' Bottom line, it's chockfull of the type of small details I'd expect in a book by Dave Smith. That just doesn't happen.

The readership of the NYT, myself excluded (maybe a few hundred others), has ZERO interest in the CBJ. Most probably don't know what the heck it is and couldn't care less it does exist or that the show is now 11 minutes and not 16. But they would care about Disney's Next Gen program, the technology behind it and what it could mean down the line for not only Disney, but other corporations as well.

This was the first little salvo in a big push to get people behind Disney's huge tracking/data mining initiative. Amusing that it was in the NYT. My Mouse Ears are off to the folks behind it, but the battle is just starting. Never good to get too cocky too soon (unless you're at an Imagineering-Fanboi mix and mingle!)
 
What amuses me is it was down THE FIRST DAY it came back up. I happened to be at Disney for the first time since January on a quick trip with my 7 month old and was very excited it was going to be open for me to share with him. We got to the show by 10:30ish and were told "the family was having some isues". We came back several more times before we finally got to see it in the afternoon.
The dialog changes took all character out of the show for me. The songs are still fun and make me smile, but they're so fast you no sooner get into it than it's on to the next. It was disappointing.
 

The Duck

Well-Known Member
My question is, to what purpose would someone plant a story in the New York Times
about the Country Bear Jamboree?

I'm not arguing that someone called in some favors, because it seems so odd.
What I'm wondering is who would think "yeah, the New York Times. Let's do that.
Because, what we really want to achieve is ____________"

Those are the answers that'll be interesting to have.
An important thing to know about the New York Times is that to many in the news media universe, it is the ONLY newspaper that matters.
How many times have you picked up your morning paper to see articles and columns originating from The Times? If it's printed in the NYT, it's bound to impact countless newspapers around the country as well as around the world.
Another tidbit about the NYT, is that it's a huge influence on TV network news. Chances are, if you heard it on most of the major TV news outlets, it was printed in the NYT first. Many in the media have joked that if the NYT ceased publication for one day, network anchors and reporters would be standing in front of the cameras in silence.
In short, if you have a story to peddle (and LOTS of cash), you go to the most influential newspaper in the country. The New York Times.
Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on it to line the bottom of my parrot's cage but that's just me.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Yes, that story was Disney's first push in the big time mainstream media to talk about how they're about to reinvent (destroy completely?) the Disney park-going experience.

. . .

It's the proverbial shot across the bow so when they continue to tinker with classic attractions like Mansion, Pirates, BTMRR, Small World with everything from unneeded queues to interactive effects that break immediately to mermaid projections, they can say they are doing it for us.

. . .

Why phone an expert on the entertainment industry when a fanboi's rant can be pulled up immediately and used like an anonymous source (of course, a little push in the right direction from 'someone' at Disney likely made it much easier for Brooks, the pride of Montana)?

. . .

Of course, no posts relating to the REAL reason the show was hacked (to improve daily turnstile counts) made it into that story, did they? When Mickey is helping write a story, you must understand the story gets written with one less finger.

. . .

This was the first little salvo in a big push to get people behind Disney's huge tracking/data mining initiative. Amusing that it was in the NYT. My Mouse Ears are off to the folks behind it, but the battle is just starting.

I gotta say that WDW1974 and Lee have provided some insider info in the past, but this talk about the motivations behind the NYT article reads like a paranoid conspiracy theory!

The article is an interest piece, plain and simple. Millions of folks have seen CBJ, and it has been parodied before, I would guess that most NYT's readers have heard of it, at least in general terms, and enjoy reading about changes to the ride.

Having written tons of articles myself, you've got to focus on the subject matter, i.e. CBJ refurb. Sure, the author could have touched upon the total park ride capacity, but this wouldn't have improved the article for most readers who are looking for a bit of entertainment, a small little meaningless controversy. They brought up the Tiki Room refurb, and the diehard fans. That's the story, the relationship between Disney, political correctness and diehard fans.

The author knows his stuff as he has written detailed articles on other Disney parks, like many NYT and major publication writers, he knows *a lot* about dozens of specific stories/corporations/governments, and he rotates through them to generate articles.

Disney "tinkers" with the queue, but this is mostly a plus. When BTMRR's queue opens, it will be a plus. They don't need to ask permission for anything they do. Don't see how this article helps Disney at all, besides providing some press for CBJ's refurb, and has nothing to do with the Next Gen initiative.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
An important thing to know about the New York Times is that to many in the news media universe, it is the ONLY newspaper that matters.
How many times have you picked up your morning paper to see articles and columns originating from The Times? If it's printed in the NYT, it's bound to impact countless newspapers around the country as well as around the world.
Another tidbit about the NYT, is that it's a huge influence on TV network news. Chances are, if you heard it on most of the major TV news outlets, it was printed in the NYT first. Many in the media have joked that if the NYT ceased publication for one day, network anchors and reporters would be standing in front of the cameras in silence.
In short, if you have a story to peddle (and LOTS of cash), you go to the most influential newspaper in the country. The New York Times.
Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on it to line the bottom of my parrot's cage but that's just me.

New York Times is a big deal, and has a great reputation, but that is mostly for political/foreign affairs/investigative type articles, those article are discussed endlessly. But the Arts Section? Not so sure about that section, sure it gets its readers, but most readers don't read the NYT for the Arts Section. I read NYT's articles frequently, those which pop up on Google News, but I doubt I've read even a dozen articles from the NYT's Art section. When it comes to Art/Entertainment, there are more visible publications, IMHO.

As we come into the election, the NYT's liberal slant has become more evident/talked about, maybe that is why some people don't like it.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I gotta say that WDW1974 and Lee have provided some insider info in the past, but this talk about the motivations behind the NYT article reads like a paranoid conspiracy theory!

The article is an interest piece, plain and simple. Millions of folks have seen CBJ, and it has been parodied before, I would guess that most NYT's readers have heard of it, at least in general terms, and enjoy reading about changes to the ride.

Having written tons of articles myself, you've got to focus on the subject matter, i.e. CBJ refurb. Sure, the author could have touched upon the total park ride capacity, but this wouldn't have improved the article for most readers who are looking for a bit of entertainment, a small little meaningless controversy. They brought up the Tiki Room refurb, and the diehard fans. That's the story, the relationship between Disney, political correctness and diehard fans.

The author knows his stuff as he has written detailed articles on other Disney parks, like many NYT and major publication writers, he knows *a lot* about dozens of specific stories/corporations/governments, and he rotates through them to generate articles.

Disney "tinkers" with the queue, but this is mostly a plus. When BTMRR's queue opens, it will be a plus. They don't need to ask permission for anything they do. Don't see how this article helps Disney at all, besides providing some press for CBJ's refurb, and has nothing to do with the Next Gen initiative.

You are entitled to your opinion and I enjoyed reading it. ... but you are wrong. Very much so. But congrats on the mention. (hot yeti loving now going on on SNL ... where's Lee?)
 

Lee

Adventurer
I gotta say that WDW1974 and Lee have provided some insider info in the past, but this talk about the motivations behind the NYT article reads like a paranoid conspiracy theory!
It is not at all a conspiracy theory.
I can't say too much about it, but suffice to say the origins of the story and its purpose has been looked into. By people in a position to have access to such things.
Disney wanted the story there, and had a reason (as '74 said) for it.
 

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