Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[havoc315]

He said that would happen unless the vaccine proves to be "a game-changer."

Not exactly. He said.. as of just 2 weeks ago... that he had “no doubt” masking and social distancing would be in place for the rest of the year. But he said the pace of normalization might be sped up if we vaccinate even faster than expected. Our anticipated speed of vaccination has actually gotten worse since he made the statement. We now aren’t expected to have everyone vaccinated until the end of the summer.

 

[techgeek]

What do you believe can be done at the Federal level, apart from public transportation and federal property? Or do you just mean the CDC should set out guidelines and hope the states will adopt them?

Its not just WDW - every national and multinational company is going to continue to explicitly follow CDC or WHO guidelines. The large company I work for has said work from home / masks and distancing at offices / essential travel only will continue until the CDC says otherwise. Huge liability on them if they step outside that guidance.

 

[danlb_2000]

I have faith that Chapek isn’t lying when he says masks and social distancing will be required for the rest of the year.

There seems to be widespread belief in this thread that there will be some insurrection at WDW forcing Chapek to go back on his statements.

I would agree that Disney will always be more cautious then most business, and these precautions are likely to stay in place that long. What I disagreed with is your more general argument that restriction other places will not be lifted until the virus is eradicated.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Tourism companies , private and public companies ( ie airlines ) country airports are already discussing this topic. It is something called a vaccine passport. I have successfully recovered from my second Moderna shot after a rough 23 hours in bed due to side effects. In my possession is what I consider as gold. It is the CDC card that shows I have been vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine. I was advised that this is the proof to show authorities. I will be making copies of this card, saving a pic on my phone and putting the original in a safe place.

Glad you are happy with your card. As for the "vaccine passport" concept it has been discussed and continues to be discussed. There is merit for international travel or entry into a sensitive facility otherwise any benefits would be negligible if any. To be able to enter an entertainment / sports venue, a store or participate in an event no, quite impractical.

 

[havoc315]

I would agree that Disney will always be more cautious then most business, and these precautions are likely to stay in place that long. What I disagreed with is your more general argument that restriction other places will not be lifted until the virus is eradicated.

Depends on the place. There will be places that lift resurrections prematurely. And there will be some types of restrictions that can be lifted safely sooner than others.

Sports stadiums aren’t going to go directly from empty to maskless and full.

I fully expect restrictions to gradually get reduced. But masks and social distancing will be in place in large gatherings for at least the next 6 months or so.

 

[havoc315]

Glad you are happy with your card. As for the "vaccine passport" concept it has been discussed and continues to be discussed. There is merit for international travel or entry into a sensitive facility otherwise any benefits would be negligible if any. To be able to enter an entertainment / sports venue, a store or participate in an event no, quite impractical.

Yeah... imagine... I mean, the only thing even less practical would be to check people’s temperature. Checking people’s temperature would be totally impractical.

(I have to get my temperature checked just to go into work every day).

 

[WDWTrojan]

I'm all for masks staying but can we get rid of temperature checks already? It's health theater and nothing more. Nobody with a 102º fever is trying to go to a theme park and the most infectious people are pre-symptomatic anyways.

 

[twilight mitsuk]

I'm all for masks staying but can we get rid of temperature checks already? It's health theater and nothing more. Nobody with a 102º fever is trying to go to a theme park and the most infectious people are pre-symptomatic anyways.

Like the old random metal detector screenings

 

[havoc315]

I'm all for masks staying but can we get rid of temperature checks already? It's health theater and nothing more. Nobody with a 102º fever is trying to go to a theme park and the most infectious people are pre-symptomatic anyways.

I happen to agree. The temp checks are not super effective. It’s a way to make people feel safer.

 

[danlb_2000]

Hypothetically, if Disney did require vaccinations we would have to wait until pretty much any adult who wanted one could get it, so that would be at least a couple more months. At that point the vaccine still would not be available to children so there would have to be an exception for them. In that scenario how much would that allow them to change the precautions being taken within the parks?

 

[GimpYancIent]

Yeah... imagine... I mean, the only thing even less practical would be to check people’s temperature. Checking people’s temperature would be totally impractical.

(I have to get my temperature checked just to go into work every day).

Ahhhhhh, yes the temperature check. I have always been surprised with the fact it took COVID19 for temperature checks to become a standard. Checking for a temperature of 100.4 or higher should have been more widely instituted a long time ago. Such a temperature or higher definitely is a strong indicator a person is ill and should be checked out by a medical professional to determine the cause. A strong indicator the person with the high temp should not be mingling w others in a high density environment regardless of the illness. It has more applications than something specific to only COVID19.

 

[Lilofan]

I happen to agree. The temp checks are not super effective. It’s a way to make people feel safer.

I felt safe with theme park security even before back in the day when their attire looked like the good humor ice cream man. Their present attire is more professional .

 

[havoc315]

Hypothetically, if Disney did require vaccinations we would have to wait until pretty much any adult who wanted one could get it, so that would be at least a couple more months. At that point the vaccine still would not be available to children so there would have to be an exception for them. In that scenario how much would that allow them to change the precautions being taken within the parks?

A good discussion of the vaccine passport and WDW:

https:///2021/02/vaccine-passport-ad1/

The answer to your question: it would depend.

In theory, there could be enough vaccine availability to require a vaccine passport by the fall.
Hawaii is already rolling out a statewide tourism requirement: if you want to opt out of mandatory quarantine, produce a negative test or proof of vaccination. Otherwise, enjoy the first 2 weeks of your vacation in mandatory quarantine.

With all adults in the park vaccinated.. you’d have so little transmission of the virus, combined with the fact that it is less severe in children, that you could probably 99% normalize. Bring back entertainment, full capacity, no masks.
Probably just reduce instances where unvaccinated children come into close contact with each other (no group babysitting services).

 

[mmascari]

There is literally no chance of this happening.

Completely agree here. Disney isn’t likely to require vaccine.

Vaccinated people are not going to continue to wear masks, socially distance, and restrict their lifestyles because there is still a slight chance of someone giving Covid to them. People just do not have that level of concern that the risk has to literally be 0 for them to resume their normal life.

People and public health policy are different things. Just like people frequently want antibiotics immediately, but policy wants to avoid overuse to prevent resistant strains from developing. People want to be done with mitigation efforts. Public health policy wants to use vaccination to reduce spread and also wants to minimize the frequency vaccinated people are exposed to virus.

If we vaccinate enough people, spread will fall off dramatically, and it’ll all work out. If we don’t, the likelihood of a variant that isn’t protected against goes up. That’s what I expect policy to be based on. Then, businesses to follow policy based on liability exposure. I expect people to be grumpy, just like when they don’t immediately get the antibiotics.

I’d say it’s leas likely they will do it. But the PR would be a reason to do it.

Logistically, it’s far easier than the temp checks they are doing: just show your vaccination passport.

And PR-wise, it’s a huge win. It’s a way to assure the public they are safe. Especially if kids can’t get the vaccine. so it’s a great PR message — “you can safely bring your family to WDW because we require all adults to be vaccinated.”
Huge win for their customer base.

Yeah... imagine... I mean, the only thing even less practical would be to check people’s temperature. Checking people’s temperature would be totally impractical.

(I have to get my temperature checked just to go into work every day).

Temp checks are easy, low risk, and screen out active symptoms, even if they miss a lot.

Vaccine documentation validation is hard, risk prone, and misses creates greater liability. People will fake it, thus creating extra liability.

For international travel, customs has the resources to do it. They’re already checking regular passports.

For something like a movie or concert, I wouldn’t trust them to validate a fake.

 

[havoc315]

Completely agree here. Disney isn’t likely to require vaccine.


People and public health policy are different things. Just like people frequently want antibiotics immediately, but policy wants to avoid overuse to prevent resistant strains from developing. People want to be done with mitigation efforts. Public health policy wants to use vaccination to reduce spread and also wants to minimize the frequency vaccinated people are exposed to virus.

If we vaccinate enough people, spread will fall off dramatically, and it’ll all work out. If we don’t, the likelihood of a variant that isn’t protected against goes up. That’s what I expect policy to be based on. Then, businesses to follow policy based on liability exposure. I expect people to be grumpy, just like when they don’t immediately get the antibiotics.




Temp checks are easy, low risk, and screen out active symptoms, even if they miss a lot.

Vaccine documentation validation is hard, risk prone, and misses creates greater liability. People will fake it, thus creating extra liability.

For international travel, customs has the resources to do it. They’re already checking regular passports.

For something like a movie or concert, I wouldn’t trust them to validate a fake.

Actually, vaccine documentation. Is far far easier. IBM is already working with government and travel industry to create a universal app for it.

Not talking about a hodgepodge of doctors notes. The travel industry, governments and tech industry are already working on a centralized universal system. It’s expected that the “passport” will be required for all international travel.. probably for cruise lines and domestic air travel. Possibly for large gatherings sites like stadiums and theme parks.

Making the case for COVID-19 vaccine passports: A shift to data democracy

IBM explains how technology could be used to create a secure ‘passport’ for work, entertainment, and travel -- without compromising our privacy.

www.google.com

If you want to travel next year, you may need a vaccine passport

Now that coronavirus vaccines are starting to roll out in the US and abroad, many people may be dreaming of the day when they can travel, shop and go to the movies again. But in order to do those activities, you may eventually need something in addition to the vaccine: a vaccine passport...

www.google.com

 

[Lilofan]

Actually, vaccine documentation. Is far far easier. IBM is already working with government and travel industry to create a universal app for it.

Not talking about a hodgepodge of doctors notes. The travel industry, governments and tech industry are already working on a centralized universal system. It’s expected that the “passport” will be required for all international travel.. probably for cruise lines and domestic air travel. Possibly for large gatherings sites like stadiums and theme parks.

Making the case for COVID-19 vaccine passports: A shift to data democracy

IBM explains how technology could be used to create a secure ‘passport’ for work, entertainment, and travel -- without compromising our privacy.

www.google.com

If you want to travel next year, you may need a vaccine passport

Now that coronavirus vaccines are starting to roll out in the US and abroad, many people may be dreaming of the day when they can travel, shop and go to the movies again. But in order to do those activities, you may eventually need something in addition to the vaccine: a vaccine passport...

www.google.com

Is it IBM or a IBM third party outsourced cheap labor IT from India working on the new technology coming to the USA?

 

[Chi84]

Disney is not going to take on the financial or logistical burden that it would entail, nor the negative PR that would ensure. But, perhaps most importantly, they would be scared to death of the legal liability when someone gets Covid after Disney claims to be screening everyone for vaccination. No, I don't think there is any chance at all of Disney doing this.

I wouldn't say there's no chance, but I don't think it's likely, at least not the way things are going. The mitigation procedures adopted by WDW were put in place when there was no way to stop the spread of the virus and people had no means of protecting themselves from getting it. Under those circumstances, having people congregate in large crowds with no protective procedures would have been unreasonable and arguably negligent.

Things will change when these highly effective vaccines become available to all. At that point, WDW may simply take the position that COVID may be present on the premises, and the unvaccinated choose to enter at their own risk. Clearly, this will not be the case in the very near future, since the vaccine is not readily available now. But there will come a point when it will be unreasonable to expect businesses or entertainment venues to bear the burden of protecting people from COVID.

 

[Mark52479]

I am 100% vaccine. I think everyone that can get one should not think twice. My parents, both my uncles, and my grandmother already have had BOTH doses

However,

The VACCINE PASSPORT is going to be so much more complicated then we all think. First off the cards they give you showing you got vaccinated can be duplicated in about 2 minutes. So if Disney wants to accept those as proof, I am sure there will be tons of fakes out there.

If Disney DID require the vaccine, they would have to make exceptions for those that cant get it for medical reasons. Then you have people making up doctors notes and that is one big mess.

The IBM passport is good in theory but I can see it be taken to courts for HIPA violations, privacy laws etc........ All the stuff people like to sue over.

Like @Chi84 just said, most likely Disney will just say those that are not vaccinated "enter at your own risk"

 

[Polkadotdress]

If we don’t eradicate Covid in 8-10 months, then we must continue the mitigation measures. That simple.

Likely, vaccination may become compulsory at some point.

1 of many articles on how quickly we could wipe out the virus with proper mitigation and masking:

We Can Eliminate Covid-19 If We Want To

We are always 4–6 weeks from being able to do what countries around the world have done

coronavirus.medium.com

If you read this article in its entirety, you will be frustrated to see that the author touts “500,000 deaths” too high a price to pay for herd immunity. Yeah...

If the vaccine is available to anybody who wants it and proves out to be as effective (especially in preventing serious illness or death) as it looks and 30% of people choose not to be vaccinated, I don't really care how much community spread there is. I'm not going to do anything to try and protect people who choose not to be vaccinated.

While there are a hypothetical 30% that might not choose to be vaccinated, what about those who can’t? Or those in which the vaccine is far less effective due to underlying immune suppression? Is it “too bad, so sad” for them too?

Covid is also not the black death. You are WAY overestimating people's concern about Covid. By like 1000%. You're right that the vaccine does not provide 100% protection. But it's damn near 100% protection from serious illness or death. And the new studies coming out also show that it actually prevents infection and prevents you from spreading Covid.

But, and it’s a BIG BUT...there haven’t been any studies on the immune-suppressed. It’s likely that the vaccine is far less effective for them. And as one of those people, I am definitely still 1000% worried about Covid EVEN THOUGH I’ve gotten the first shot of Moderna.

 

[Kevin_W]

Measles vaccine is 98% effective. Moderna and Pfizer are around 90%.. lower on the newer variants. That’s still excellent... not going to demean it. Fantastic. But still far short of fully effective.

Again, it depends on how you define "effective". If "effective" = not getting seriously ill or dying, then the vaccines are 100%.