Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

willtravel

Well-Known Member
I agree, but there are a lot of people out there that think this really will just "go away." We just need to wait it out a little, it will burn itself out and we can go back to what life was like in 2019. That isn't happening. This will continue to need to be managed. Hopefully, that just means we get covid shots like flu shots, or we know if we get more seriously sick that there is treatment that will get us over the hump. But it's not looking like it is going to essentially disappear as a virus threat, like SARS or MERS.
I don't think enough is known about this virus and how it will be in 6 months or a year. Science is not even agreeing. It is a virus and I don't think anyone who has brains think it will just disappear. It will be here to stay in some form but I do hope for what you said that I highlighted.
 

baymenxpac

Well-Known Member
I think that is very much the mentality of a lot of people. They did their few weeks or months off work, did the lock down, and now they are done with that and expect it to be OK by the time school returns for things to go back to normal.

yeah, it's almost as if lock downs aren't feasible strategy and were a product of magical thinking and illogical fear.

if we can remember as far back as ::checks notes::....march....we were only supposed to make sure hospitals didn't get overwhelmed. now the goal posts moved to, "no community spread." that's not and was never going to happen. but you have public officials that have pot-committed themselves to this strategy, and fooled themselves with a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" line of thinking that backs up their existing confirmation bias. see: cuomo, andrew.

human beings fooled themselves into thinking, "WE CAN CONTROL THIS!" because there's nothing more we hate than not being in control. it was exacerbated by the US not having a rudder, as our federal leadership is basically...:🤷:

yes, it's going to be endemic. no, it's likely never going away. and no, that's not really unlike any other viral infection we have. the sooner the world collectively understands this and adjusts their thinking, the better.
 

oceanbreeze77

Well-Known Member
yeah, it's almost as if lock downs aren't feasible strategy and were a product of magical thinking and illogical fear.

if we can remember as far back as ::checks notes::....march....we were only supposed to make sure hospitals didn't get overwhelmed. now the goal posts moved to, "no community spread." that's not and was never going to happen. but you have public officials that have pot-committed themselves to this strategy, and fooled themselves with a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" line of thinking that backs up their existing confirmation bias. see: cuomo, andrew.

human beings fooled themselves into thinking, "WE CAN CONTROL THIS!" because there's nothing more we hate than not being in control. it was exacerbated by the US not having a rudder, as our federal leadership is basically...:🤷:

yes, it's going to be endemic. no, it's likely never going away. and no, that's not really unlike any other viral infection we have. the sooner the world collectively understands this and adjusts their thinking, the better.
In case you haven't been paying attention I would like to inform you that hospitals are currently very overwhelmed.
 

baymenxpac

Well-Known Member
In case you haven't been paying attention I would like to inform you that hospitals are currently very overwhelmed.

okay:


that's HHS's dashboard. check the numbers on inpatient bed utilization. then talk to any hospital administrator that handles staffing, supplies, has participated in LEAN programs (of which i have worked with for over a decade) for more insight on hospital resources. it might surprise you to know that hospitals are at normal occupancy. which is a GOOD thing. so i guess i am paying attention.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
9C37816B-83C8-45BB-AF46-05B74D38CA0D.png

Who is doing a better job do you think?
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Yikes, why is testing totals so low on Tuesday? Usually testing on Monday is the highest for the week as anyone having surgical procedures for the week get tested. Although, I guess most hospitals in Florida have suspended elective procedures, so that’s not true down there...
Are we looking at the same chart? Testing is up 10k from last week.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
yeah, it's almost as if lock downs aren't feasible strategy and were a product of magical thinking and illogical fear.

if we can remember as far back as ::checks notes::....march....we were only supposed to make sure hospitals didn't get overwhelmed. now the goal posts moved to, "no community spread." that's not and was never going to happen. but you have public officials that have pot-committed themselves to this strategy, and fooled themselves with a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" line of thinking that backs up their existing confirmation bias. see: cuomo, andrew.

human beings fooled themselves into thinking, "WE CAN CONTROL THIS!" because there's nothing more we hate than not being in control. it was exacerbated by the US not having a rudder, as our federal leadership is basically...:🤷:

yes, it's going to be endemic. no, it's likely never going away. and no, that's not really unlike any other viral infection we have. the sooner the world collectively understands this and adjusts their thinking, the better.
Extremely well written with valid points to accompany.

The Council of 8 will not like this.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
yeah, it's almost as if lock downs aren't feasible strategy and were a product of magical thinking and illogical fear.

if we can remember as far back as ::checks notes::....march....we were only supposed to make sure hospitals didn't get overwhelmed. now the goal posts moved to, "no community spread." that's not and was never going to happen. but you have public officials that have pot-committed themselves to this strategy, and fooled themselves with a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" line of thinking that backs up their existing confirmation bias. see: cuomo, andrew.

human beings fooled themselves into thinking, "WE CAN CONTROL THIS!" because there's nothing more we hate than not being in control. it was exacerbated by the US not having a rudder, as our federal leadership is basically...:🤷:

yes, it's going to be endemic. no, it's likely never going away. and no, that's not really unlike any other viral infection we have. the sooner the world collectively understands this and adjusts their thinking, the better.
You and others keep repeating this line about "no community spread," which has never been where the goal posts have been. In March, we had absolutely no clue how far the virus had penetrated. Looking at the chart posted above, NYC absolutely needed a massive lockdown to bring things under control. We did not know how many other places needed that type of lockdown because we did not understand the means of transmission, how many communities were affected, the IFR or how to effectively treat people or even identify people at risk (the vascular stuff that has people suffering heart attacks and strokes even if they don't have respiratory symptoms).

What people object to is the "there's nothing we can do, going back to 2019" plan. No masks, no restrictions on the types of businesses and gatherings that can operate safely, none of it. If we do that, we will have uncontrolled community spread, and hospitals will get overwhelmed. So if the rules are minimal, than people are going to react because some can visualize the cause -> effect without having to see it play out first.

So in your world of "adjusting thinking" what should we be doing?

Masks?
Bars?
Parties?
Family Gatherings?
 

baymenxpac

Well-Known Member
You and others keep repeating this line about "no community spread," which has never been where the goal posts have been. In March, we had absolutely no clue how far the virus had penetrated. Looking at the chart posted above, NYC absolutely needed a massive lockdown to bring things under control. We did not know how many other places needed that type of lockdown because we did not understand the means of transmission, how many communities were affected, the IFR or how to effectively treat people or even identify people at risk (the vascular stuff that has people suffering heart attacks and strokes even if they don't have respiratory symptoms).

What people object to is the "there's nothing we can do, going back to 2019" plan. No masks, no restrictions on the types of businesses and gatherings that can operate safely, none of it. If we do that, we will have uncontrolled community spread, and hospitals will get overwhelmed. So if the rules are minimal, than people are going to react because some can visualize the cause -> effect without having to see it play out first.

So in your world of "adjusting thinking" what should we be doing?

Masks?
Bars?
Parties?
Family Gatherings?

wear a mask, sure. if it makes you feel better. also, go to bars, parties, and family gatherings, if it makes you feel better. if it doesn't, don't. i'm not in charge of your social calendar.

to your spread point, you're using the same line of thinking that all modeling used, which was, "WE HAVE NO IDEA, SO THERE HAS TO BE EXPONENTIAL GROWTH, etc." we haven't proven that it's incredibly flawed already? we haven't seen in controlled environments (like diamond princess, where social distancing is impossible) that not EVERYONE got infected? don't we basically know through all experience in the history of human beings that virus gonna virus, and it's why "social distancing" as we know it was derived from a high school experiment from 40 years ago? depending on how old you are, you have survived anywhere from 2-to-4 pandemics. the difference is that the first three, you didn't know they were happening.

also, absolutely do not make that inference in NYC. it is an awful reading of the data and very much likely not the case. on new york (since i actually live and work here):

View attachment 485382
Who is doing a better job do you think?

if there's one thing i know, it's that we new yorkers freakin' loooooove to tell people how great we are.

but does everyone remember this?



now look at the chart dan posted. which looks like NY, and which looks like the sunbelt curve?

the heroic tale we're telling is, "we did it! we crushed the curve!" it's nice, but it's requires some big mental gymnastics.

for whatever it's worth, i do think we got dealt a bad hand, which was exacerbated by the scattershot federal response. it's very likely what happened is that COVID, like every other coronavirus, is highly seasonal. because of the regional presence of large corporate offices, tourism, mass transit, etc., and it being novel and not having bad flu seasons for two years (leaving lots more vulnerable), we got SMOKED with this thing. and yeah, the governor's LTC order ultimately didn't help. but the horse left the barn long after we closed the door, and it burned out. it's why we have been able to have weeks of protests (from BLM to occupy city hall) without any spike in cases.

if we really did an honest post mortem of what happened, we would be able to move forward with mitigation measures that make sense. since you asked, for one, point-of-care testing at nursing homes and hospitals, as opposed to testing every asymptomatic, 22-year-old. or like voluntarily closing your social circles in peak season times. stuff we kind of do already in the winter time.

but we're scared, and we want control. and this politician says this and this other one says that and i'm on his team and not on his team so i believe that guy and on and on and on and on it goes.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
What people object to is the "there's nothing we can do, going back to 2019" plan. No masks, no restrictions on the types of businesses and gatherings that can operate safely, none of it. If we do that, we will have uncontrolled community spread, and hospitals will get overwhelmed.

Who is saying that? It's extremely selective to state that anybody who isn't advocating for strict lockdowns and mandatory masks is only wanting everything to return to 2019 lifestyles.

I live in GA and we've been open for awhile now. The majority of people who are going out for dinner at restaurants or shopping at small busineses are using common sense. It's not that difficult. Sure, there are few extreme people on YouTube forcing their way into Wal Mart without a mask or arguing with people over their rights, but it's a very small subsect. The same goes for the "mask Karens" who harass people or pull out a gun to force someone to wear a mask. To apply those few isolated and very extreme incidents to either side of the debate is silly.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Which of these things are you doing/not doing?
I don't work outside the home, I have no kids, family lives 2000+ miles away, don't go to church, so my exposure risk for any virus is typically way below normal circumstances, so I am not the best example to answer this question. The biggest change is the lack of travel, especially to my Dad. I wear a mask when doing errands, and I wasn't doing the rest pre-covid, so I'm not doing them now, obviously.

How about you?

to your spread point, you're using the same line of thinking that all modeling used, which was, "WE HAVE NO IDEA, SO THERE HAS TO BE EXPONENTIAL GROWTH, etc." we haven't proven that it's incredibly flawed already?

Whoa, in your world uncontrolled community spread = EXPONENTIAL GROWTH!? That's not what I said, that is not what I implied. If you review my posts, I have mentioned several times that epidemiologists say exponential growth at this point is unlikely because even with our scattershot approach, there has been enough behavior modification, to take that off the table. But you can have uncontrolled community spread, linear spread, and still reach a point where hospitals are overwhelmed.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
What should we be doing?
-Masks
-Hand washing
-Physical distancing
-Limiting social interaction
  • Masks = Yes, for sure. Anyone who says no to that doesn’t want to have a serious discussion.
  • Hand washing = goes without saying.
  • Physical distancing = yes
If there was a serious commitment to just those 3 behaviors I sincerely feel we would be a whole lot better off. Sure there’s lip service and people say they support these things but we need full compliance. The vast majority of our economy can be up and running with these things in place, but too many people just want to fight it for the sake of fighting.
  • Limiting social interaction is a grey area. How limited does it need to be? If you wear a mask and sit 6 feet apart in someone’s backyard is that enough social interaction or do we need to go to bars or clubs? I‘m starting to see more and more people having parties and big group gatherings. People put off graduation parties and birthdays and even weddings and are looking to make that stuff up. I think it’s way too soon for that. These are the kinds of things that need to be sacrificed still for the greater good along with bars and obvious things like concerts and sports with fans in the stands.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
How about you?
I wear a mask indoors(no option) And outdoors at my business, I have the option there but I’d rather just wear it, better optics.

Bars are closed in NJ, so that’s not even an option. I am going to NY State Friday night and will be at an outdoor bar, that’ll be a first since February.

Parties and family gatherings, yes, we do both of those. I’m not a 22 year old, so it’s a different kind of party.

I am very typical for my area. Friends and family are no longer avoiding each other. We have pool parties and barbecues, we play golf together and go out to dinner together.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Who is saying that? It's extremely selective to state that anybody who isn't advocating for strict lockdowns and mandatory masks is only wanting everything to return to 2019 lifestyles.

I live in GA and we've been open for awhile now. The majority of people who are going out for dinner at restaurants or shopping at small busineses are using common sense. It's not that difficult. Sure, there are few extreme people on YouTube forcing their way into Wal Mart without a mask or arguing with people over their rights, but it's a very small subsect. The same goes for the "mask Karens" who harass people or pull out a gun to force someone to wear a mask. To apply those few isolated and very extreme incidents to either side of the debate is silly.
The implication is there in the statements by Governors, especially in the Sun Belt. The speed at which states burned through their Phased openings, and the hesitation displayed about pulling back. The idea is displayed in the states where communities are suing local health agencies and Governors because they object to whatever minimal level of rules have been put into place. The sheriffs who publicly announce they will not follow state mandates. The school boards who are saying that schools will be reopened without any social distancing precautions or mask usage, even in communities that are experiencing their highest levels of cases.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
The social interactions are what’s driving up rates in Florida.

I don’t view outdoor 6ft apart gatherings of <10 people as something needed to be avoided but if you are getting closer and having a prolonged interaction or you are indoors yes I see it as a huge problem. I think this complacency by the public iswhy our rates are skyrocketing in this country. I can count on two hands the people I’ve had a close maskless indoor interaction with outside of work (and at work I’m always in a mask.) I wish more people would follow this advice. If numbers keep skyrocketing, the only way to avoid those gatherings would be a stay at home order.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
The implication is there in the statements by Governors, especially in the Sun Belt. The speed at which states burned through their Phased openings, and the hesitation displayed about pulling back. The idea is displayed in the states where communities are suing local health agencies and Governors because they object to whatever minimal level of rules have been put into place. The sheriffs who publicly announce they will not follow state mandates. The school boards who are saying that schools will be reopened without any social distancing precautions or mask usage, even in communities that are experiencing their highest levels of cases.
"Burned through phases openings"? Are there any states that are fully open and back to pre covid status? If anything, things have been scaled back and/or more people wearing masks, even in their car.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom