Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ABQ]

My point is that if you really have concerns, then waiting until after all these gatherings take place makes no sense.

That was my thought as well.
Along with all the Easter related gatherings, they also have the Rangers @ Flyers tomorrow and the Raptors @ 76ers the next day. Never mind the jury still being out that masks have much impact on BA.2 at all, but that's a completely different and likely pointless at this time, debate.

 

[Andrew C]

My point is that if you really have concerns, then waiting until after all these gatherings take place makes no sense.

It is all silliness however you look at it. The CDC guidance is pretty conservative...so to be in green means you are doing well...It seems Philly is almost looking for COVID zero.

 

[danlb_2000]

No jurisdiction gave a week's notice to have an "education period" prior to putting in mandates the prior times. The likely reason that it starts on Monday is to get past Good Friday, Easter and the beginning of Passover so there isn't as much backlash.

There isn't a county within 200 miles of Philadelphia that is recommended to have masking per the CDC guidelines. People in Philadelphia should just refuse to comply en masse. They wouldn't have any chance to enforce it. If they tried to fine or shut down a few "example" businesses, the business would prevail in court due to selective enforcement.

For a business I wonder what constitutes "enforcement" of the mask requirement. If they tell customers to wear them and they don't abide, are they required to kick them out, or call the police so they can?

 

[OrlandoRising]

It is all silliness however you look at it. The CDC guidance is pretty conservative...so to be in green means you are doing well...It seems Philly is almost looking for COVID zero.

That seems like an exaggeration. COVID zero looks like what's happened in China: full lockdowns. A return to an indoor mask mandate is not at all like a lockdown.

 

[Andrew C]

That seems like an exaggeration. COVID zero looks like what's happened in China: full lockdowns. A return to an indoor mask mandate is not at all like a lockdown.

That is not what I meant....I meant that it seems like they want practically no covid cases going around to have no mask mandate in place. To maintain the levels they are asking for with omicron just doesn't seem possible, nor does it seem practical.

 

[Disney4Lyfe]

That is not what I meant....I meant that it seems like they want practically no covid cases going around to have no mask mandate in place. To maintain the levels they are asking for with omicron just doesn't seem possible, nor does it seem practical.

The 1918 Flu Strain was circulating till approx 1950. We just didn't have the industrial testing complex, or social media, to keep the pandemic going. Covid will not disappear, it will be with us for 20-30-40 years at a minimum. Shall we mask on, mask off for 40 years?

 

[mmascari]

It is all silliness however you look at it. The CDC guidance is pretty conservative...so to be in green means you are doing well...It seems Philly is almost looking for COVID zero.

I heard part of the announcement on the radio. There was acknowledgement that it's a low number and that maybe they should update the metric. However, it was also trying to be forward looking. Along the lines of "if we do more masking now, it may prevent a run away increase" vs "if we wait to do more masking until after it get's bad, it may be to late to have any impact".

There's actually some thought in that decision. Agree or not with doing it now, it's definitely true that taking mitigation measures early (any measures not just masking) will have better impact than trying to start them after the numbers are already bad.

That the level is low may also fit with the long lead time to going into effect. If we get to the date and the trend is continuing up, it will not be as low anymore. If we get to the date and the trend has reversed and is flat or back down, dropping it with no lead time is easy. Both of those are easier than trying to announce a change that takes effect immediately with short notice.

There's no city, but are several college/university near us that have already reinstated masks due to local conditions within the school. They're obviously more concentrated than the general public.

While we're all green on the CDC Community Level, the North East, and a bunch of areas around Philly don't look so good on the Transmission metric. The Transmission one is always going to lead the Community level. Maybe we'll get worse, maybe flat, or maybe that was it and we'll trend back down. We'll know after the fact, not ahead of time.

 

[Andrew C]

Along the lines of "if we do more masking now, it may prevent a run away increase" vs "if we wait to do more masking until after it get's bad, it may be to late to have any impact".

This has not changed trends yet....

Also, there isn't going to be a runaway increase in the city given the built up immunity due to infections during the first omicron wave combined with vaccination rates.

 

[mmascari]

People in Philadelphia should just refuse to comply en masse. They wouldn't have any chance to enforce it. If they tried to fine or shut down a few "example" businesses, the business would prevail in court due to selective enforcement.

Most of these policies are more about setting a leadership position. That's normally enough for most people to follow along with anything reasonable. If the only way to get most people to do anything was the threat of enforcement, most things wouldn't ever happen.

There's always a few, where that's the only option, but that's clearly not how the vast majority react.

Locally, we don't have any mask mandate. Yet, most employees at most places are still wearing a mask. Might be choice, might be company policy, no idea. When I visit those places, I'll wear a mask. The employees have set a leadership position in what people should be doing in that business. That doesn't mean everyone else does, or that they should be expected to. In the grocery store, I'm seeing about 50% still wearing a mask and nearly all (or all) staff. At the post office yesterday, with a huge line and all the staff masked, 90% of people in line were masked. The post office is a much more confined space than the grocery store. At the brewery with the restaurant and gift shop, while the staff was masked, maybe 1% of customers were masked while not eating. It would have been nobody, but there were like 2 people who were.

 

[DisneyCane]

Most of these policies are more about setting a leadership position. That's normally enough for most people to follow along with anything reasonable. If the only way to get most people to do anything was the threat of enforcement, most things wouldn't ever happen.

There's always a few, where that's the only option, but that's clearly not how the vast majority react.

Locally, we don't have any mask mandate. Yet, most employees at most places are still wearing a mask. Might be choice, might be company policy, no idea. When I visit those places, I'll wear a mask. The employees have set a leadership position in what people should be doing in that business. That doesn't mean everyone else does, or that they should be expected to. In the grocery store, I'm seeing about 50% still wearing a mask and nearly all (or all) staff. At the post office yesterday, with a huge line and all the staff masked, 90% of people in line were masked. The post office is a much more confined space than the grocery store. At the brewery with the restaurant and gift shop, while the staff was masked, maybe 1% of customers were masked while not eating. It would have been nobody, but there were like 2 people who were.

I'm not sure where you are located. In my area, the percentage of either employees or customers wearing masks in places like Publix or Target keeps slowly dropping.

Completely honestly, if you are still wearing a mask voluntarily at this point, you are essentially committing to masking for the rest of your life. It is unlikely that the community transmission levels will ever be significantly lower than they are currently for the vast majority of locations in the US. If it hasn't been "safe" enough to go unmasked in for the past several weeks then when will it ever be?

The mindboggling part is that a huge percentage of the people who wear masks don't wear N95 respirators that are available for free and are the most likely to actually protect the wearer.

Unless I'm heading to the airport or a doctor's/dentist's office I don't have a mask in my vehicle or on my person to wear. When I went to WDW for 2 days last week I knew I would not ride a bus or monorail so I didn't have one on the trip.

 

[mmascari]

I'm not sure where you are located. In my area, the percentage of either employees or customers wearing masks in places like Publix or Target keeps slowly dropping.

That's the leadership setting a tone that people follow. In my area the government leadership was to mask up (not currently). Employer leadership is that most employees are still masking. In your area, based on news reports, the leadership was to not. Both the government and employer. Different places, different tones. Enforcement in either doesn't really matter was the point.

Completely honestly, if you are still wearing a mask voluntarily at this point, you are essentially committing to masking for the rest of your life. It is unlikely that the community transmission levels will ever be significantly lower than they are currently for the vast majority of locations in the US. If it hasn't been "safe" enough to go unmasked in for the past several weeks then when will it ever be?

My wife's an Infectious Disease doctor and also studied parasites. We do lots of stuff other people don't. The way I eat a steak would likely disturb you as over cooked. We also avoid sushi with raw fish. She's at least been good about not bringing work home, so far.....

Also, people in general are disgusting.

The mindboggling part is that a huge percentage of the people who wear masks don't wear N95 respirators that are available for free and are the most likely to actually protect the wearer.

I'll use both a surgical style or a KN95, but we have stopped using cloth masks. My head is large enough that the surgical style fits well. We're going for reduction here not perfection. There's plenty of reduction this way and if the location has poor ventilation and is crowded (increased risk profile), I'll wear the better one.

I did eat at the brewery the other day and I was in the 99% not using a mask at all. It was delicious, but it cost as much as a WDW meal which was a bummer.

 

[Tom P.]

That's the leadership setting a tone that people follow. In my area the government leadership was to mask up (not currently). Employer leadership is that most employees are still masking. In your area, based on news reports, the leadership was to not. Both the government and employer. Different places, different tones. Enforcement in either doesn't really matter was the point.


My wife's an Infectious Disease doctor and also studied parasites. We do lots of stuff other people don't. The way I eat a steak would likely disturb you as over cooked. We also avoid sushi with raw fish. She's at least been good about not bringing work home, so far.....

Also, people in general are disgusting.


I'll use both a surgical style or a KN95, but we have stopped using cloth masks. My head is large enough that the surgical style fits well. We're going for reduction here not perfection. There's plenty of reduction this way and if the location has poor ventilation and is crowded (increased risk profile), I'll wear the better one.

I did eat at the brewery the other day and I was in the 99% not using a mask at all. It was delicious, but it cost as much as a WDW meal which was a bummer.

Not to be argumentative, but you didn't really address the point that was being made. Are you planning to be masking for the rest of your life? Because, as @DisneyCane said, it is unlikely that we will ever see transmission levels lower than they are right now.

 

[mmascari]

Not to be argumentative, but you didn't really address the point that was being made. Are you planning to be masking for the rest of your life? Because, as @DisneyCane said, it is unlikely that we will ever see transmission levels lower than they are right now.

It's situational.

I didn't wear one when at the brew pub for any part of the experience. Although, it's rare that I eat out these days.
I would like to see the daily transmission rate under 5/100K. We were close, but the last week we've been trending up and the county is back above 13 based on NYT. The CDC has us at 80/100 for the 7 day average. Matching the daily, I would like to see that closer to 10, at least under 50. I'm not ready to assume we'll never get there. Never is a long time.

When I'm at a business, I'm looking at the crowd size, ventilation, space size, and what the employees are doing. If the checker at the cash register can wear a mask for their entire shift to provide service to me, I can wear one for the shorter time I'll be there. That seems like the polite thing to do. When I see others in the store without masks, that's fine too. They do them, I'll do me. They likely have a higher metric in mind to need a mask.

We're going to stadium sporting events in a few weeks. In the past, and now, I'm not planning on wearing a mask generally in the stadium. The real question will be about in the bathrooms. Those are a relatively poorly ventilated space, crowding, and lots of random people. All things that increase risk. On our current trend, if we're 15+/100K daily, probably wear a mask to use the restroom. The stadium restrooms, concourses, and seats all have different risk profiles, hence different reactions.

We're going to WDW in the summer. Orange County FL is at 8/100K daily and 57/100 7 Day Average right now. If our trip was next Tuesday, we would probably still wear masks on shared transit. Not sure about indoor queues. Probably just not do table service dining, which we don't normally do anyway so it's not really a change. If the numbers are lower 2 months from now, then it will not be a concern. If the numbers are higher, then probably in areas with poor ventilation.

It's not a time thing. It's not a "it's been long enough we're done" thing. It's an environmental evaluation. If the environment includes more risk, we take more mitigations, if it includes less then less. The concept or using a mask forever assumes that the risk profile never get's better. Which is unlikely. Given enough time and population change, the risk profile will change. As we covered above, it's not even a single thing now but changes all the time.

People wear bike helmets when they ride. They wear better helmets when they ride riskier bikes. From a 10 speed to a moped to street bike to a racing bike. That doesn't mean they wear the racing bike helmet all the time when walking around. It would give the best fall protection, but be incorrect for the risk profile.

None of these are absolutes, they're all situational and nuanced. We live in a world where the risk of virus transmission from others is higher today than it was in 2019. That doesn't mean it will be forever. It could get worse, could get better, it could stay the same.

People on this forum probably know better than the WDW employees where all the stuffy, crowded, poorly ventilated spaces at WDW are. All the places that cause over heating and smell of sweat.

 

[mkt]

I'll use both a surgical style or a KN95, but we have stopped using cloth masks.

Honeywell N95 loyalist here. Best combo of price, availability, and comfort I've found so far.

I do put a cloth mask over them though, since I think N95s and KN95s look stupid.

 

[The Mom]

Off topic food discussion again. And a bit of politics thrown in - but mostly food/restaurant talk.

 

[Heelz2315]

The Gov't just extended it's mask mandate on transportation for another 15 days. Wonder if WDW will drop or leave theirs for tranportation/monorail?

 

[DisneyCane]

The Gov't just extended it's mask mandate on transportation for another 15 days. Wonder if WDW will drop or leave theirs for tranportation/monorail?

They'll keep it because for some unknown reason they have determined that they are bound by the federal mandate even though Universal isn't. People will bring up the monorail crash and that since then they are under NTSB jurisdiction. However, NOBODY is under NTSB jurisdiction as they only investigate and provide recommendations. A private company with on property transportation doesn't suddenly become subject to federal jurisdiction because there was an accident.

 

[danlb_2000]

They'll keep it because for some unknown reason they have determined that they are bound by the federal mandate even though Universal isn't. People will bring up the monorail crash and that since then they are under NTSB jurisdiction. However, NOBODY is under NTSB jurisdiction as they only investigate and provide recommendations. A private company with on property transportation doesn't suddenly become subject to federal jurisdiction because there was an accident.

Yeah, I really don't understand this. I see no reason Disney would have held onto this unless there was some outside influence.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Yeah, I really don't understand this. I see no reason Disney would have held onto this unless there was some outside influence.

As of next Monday: Give Elsa a big old hug. Safe.

Breathe on the bus. Death.

Got it.

 

[CarolinaSoprano]

As of next Monday: Give Elsa a big old hug. Safe.

Breathe on the bus. Death.

Got it.

Good point. Hugs were supposed to come back also on April 18. Now that the mandate is extended will the hugs get extended too?