Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

I don't think it's so much "Team anti-vax" as it's "Team let it rip." But often they work from the same playbook. This time with "Omicron is mild!" works for both groups to promote the agenda that doing anything is stupid. As if either group is prepared to live with the actual consequences because they've convinced themselves that they will also be "mild."

I'm on team "let it rip since the only people likely to have a serious outcome are those who are unvaccinated."

No, I don't consider it an issue if a vaccinated person ends up knocked out and in bed for a few days like happens from other illnesses all the time.

I'd prefer not to get sick at all ever but the powers that be have never tried to prevent me from getting a sore throat, fever and cough in the past. Those are, by far, the most likely worst case outcomes for a vaccinated person who keeps up with recommended boosters regardless of variant.

Also, not supporting mandated vaccination is not the same as being anti-vax. I encourage people to get vaccinated and think it is the intelligent thing to do but I don't support forcing people to get the shots. If it was demonstrable that getting a certain percentage vaccinated would stop the spread then I could be convinced to support it. Since, especially with Omicron, it is demonstrable that there will be spread no matter how many people are vaccinated, I don't support it.

 

[matt9112]

But on the whole, "segregation" denotes racial division, much like "gay" denotes sexual orientation rather than meaning "happy, or carefree".

You cannot use either of those words without overwhelmingly thinking of one specific meaning for them.

Yes you can....gay can and does mean happy....just because culture demands one thing doesn't remove the meaning of the word. Sure certain uses can be more common place but they dont displace the word as a whole.

 

[matt9112]

Manuals are a better theft deterrent and safer in my mind, with hands and feet playing that sensitive dance all the time with the 3 pedals and stick without more distractions , eating, texting etc. It is a regular way of driving in Europe and a foreign word in the USA.

How did you type an entire paragraph about 3 pedals without using the word fun?

 

[Patcheslee]

FDA approved boosters for age 12+

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I put "numbers" in quotes because it isn't just the word in it's normal usage. In the COVID hysteria world it seems to me that anytime somebody talks about the "numbers" it is a euphemism for "bodies are piling up in the hallways because of you stupid hoaxers."

Are you the mayor of Miami-Dade county? I ask because you seem very sensitive to any mention of high case loads there. I'm not blaming Miami-Dade county for anything, simply pointing out that the case rate is (much) higher there than it is around WDW after the poster I replied to said that people going to WDW must want to catch COVID based on the Florida "numbers." According to the CDC, Miami-Dade county has a 7-day case rate of 1929.93 per 100k and Broward has a 7-day case rate of 1205.05 while Orange is 475.73 and Osceola is 495.01.

If somebody traveling to FL was trying to get infected, it would be much more likely to happen in Miami-Dade or Broward vs. WDW.

Alachua, where Gainesville is located is much lower than all of them at 256.84. That will likely increase when the students return to UF in a couple of weeks who are currently home in the higher spread counties.

I always love the fight in any argument that, and this is just the defense in this situation..” we are less red then them so we are better”. This argument takes place in so many discussions about anything. It’s really not a fight or discussion. Both are horribly bad and there’s no defense when one is almost as bad as the other.

Edit-Sorry mmascari .. you said basically the same thing and I didn’t read your post. Was also more informative with numbers .

 

[LittleBuford]

Yes you can....gay can and does mean happy....just because culture demands one thing doesn't remove the meaning of the word. Sure certain uses can be more common place but they dont displace the word as a whole.

You’re twisting yourself into knots to make an untenable point. Would you really say “I’m gay” to describe being happy and expect to be understood? Of course not. We all make deliberate word choices and usually know full well the connotations these choices carry. Those who use “segregation” in relation to vaccines are intentionally trying to invoke the concept of discrimination. It’s not our fault for recognising this none-too-subtle subtext and calling it out.

 

[correcaminos]

I'm on team "let it rip since the only people likely to have a serious outcome are those who are unvaccinated."

No, I don't consider it an issue if a vaccinated person ends up knocked out and in bed for a few days like happens from other illnesses all the time.

I'd prefer not to get sick at all ever but the powers that be have never tried to prevent me from getting a sore throat, fever and cough in the past. Those are, by far, the most likely worst case outcomes for a vaccinated person who keeps up with recommended boosters regardless of variant.

Also, not supporting mandated vaccination is not the same as being anti-vax. I encourage people to get vaccinated and think it is the intelligent thing to do but I don't support forcing people to get the shots. If it was demonstrable that getting a certain percentage vaccinated would stop the spread then I could be convinced to support it. Since, especially with Omicron, it is demonstrable that there will be spread no matter how many people are vaccinated, I don't support it.

Erm no... people with compromised immune systems are at risk. My friend who had sepsis from a kidney stone because beds were full is at higher risk now because their immune system took a huge hit not long ago. Doctors told them to stay home as much as possible until the procedure to break up/remove the stone happens. That's not including people I know with cancer and such too. But hey they're sickly so who cares right?

The more time passes the more I'm sick of anyone supporting choices. You don't want a vaccine? You can stay home. Oh and yet again you harp on the vaccinated can spread. They still are way less likely to do so.

As soon as the CDC signs off on 12-15 my kid will go in. I go in a week for almost 6 month booster follow blood draw too.

 

[mmascari]

Also, not supporting mandated vaccination is not the same as being anti-vax. I encourage people to get vaccinated and think it is the intelligent thing to do but I don't support forcing people to get the shots.

Nobody is forcing anyone to get the shots. They're forcing them to own that decision and not take part in activities and parts of society negatively impacted by that decision.

If it was demonstrable that getting a certain percentage vaccinated would stop the spread then I could be convinced to support it. Since, especially with Omicron, it is demonstrable that there will be spread no matter how many people are vaccinated, I don't support it.

Doesn't it though? Or, just not as large an impact at as low a vaccination level as you wish? Do the charts and data showing the case rate in unvaccinated vs vaccinated not show that the vaccinated are way less likely to get (and hence spread) than the unvaccinated? Even with Omicron, do you honestly think the infection rate is the same for the unvaccinated as the vaccinated? After 1 dose, 2 doses, 3 doses?

I'm on team "let it rip since the only people likely to have a serious outcome are those who are unvaccinated."

No, I don't consider it an issue if a vaccinated person ends up knocked out and in bed for a few days like happens from other illnesses all the time.

Combined with the above, this represents an On or Off very digital and absolute view with no spectrum of degree of impact. Either you can spread or not. Either you'll get sick or not. Either it's hospital/death or not. This completely misses all the spectrum in between.

A vaccinated person who is infected is not definitively mild and no big deal. Sure, they are likely and statistically more often then not to have that outcome, but that's not the definitive outcome for everyone. Some small percentage of vaccinated who are infected and unable to fight it off will have very poor outcomes. It may be a very small percentage, but it's not 0, and it's not so small as to be completely negligible.

The "let it rip" plan includes driving that starting number up astronomically to a huge number. Thus, that very small percentage of a now HUGE number will be a large absolute number.

That's the plan. To ignore the absolute impact and only care about the relative impact.

It's like someone walking around EPCOT purposely knocking drinks out of random peoples hands. Sure, they're only doing it to 1 out of every 100 people, just 1%. But, we don't tell that 1 person too bad and just let it go. We remove that guy from the park and don't let them back in.

 

[DisneyCane]

Erm no... people with compromised immune systems are at risk. My friend who had sepsis from a kidney stone because beds were full is at higher risk now because their immune system took a huge hit not long ago. Doctors told them to stay home as much as possible until the procedure to break up/remove the stone happens. That's not including people I know with cancer and such too. But hey they're sickly so who cares right?

The more time passes the more I'm sick of anyone supporting choices. You don't want a vaccine? You can stay home. Oh and yet again you harp on the vaccinated can spread. They still are way less likely to do so.

As soon as the CDC signs off on 12-15 my kid will go in. I go in a week for almost 6 month booster follow blood draw too.

People with compromised immune systems will always be at risk because there will always be spread. Apply what I bolded to other debates and you may feel differently.

The people in those categories will have to take extra precautions like wearing an N95 (or equivalent) respirator whenever they are around other people.

You say the vaccinated are way less likely to spread SARS-CoV-2. Can you quantify that especially with Omicron? It doesn't seem to me that there is any evidence that the people with compromised immune systems will be significantly safer from the Omicron variant even with 100% vaccination.

 

[DisneyCane]

Doesn't it though? Or, just not as large an impact at as low a vaccination level as you wish? Do the charts and data showing the case rate in unvaccinated vs vaccinated not show that the vaccinated are way less likely to get (and hence spread) than the unvaccinated? Even with Omicron, do you honestly think the infection rate is the same for the unvaccinated as the vaccinated? After 1 dose, 2 doses, 3 doses?

No, they don't. At least not in one place with very detailed data. I posted this chart from Ontario, Canada last week. It doesn't show boosted which would be nice but it certainly doesn't support your hypothesis.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

No, they don't. At least not in one place with very detailed data. I posted this chart from Ontario, Canada last week. It doesn't show boosted which would be nice but it certainly doesn't support your hypothesis.


View attachment 611749

Weren’t we told that the vaccine isn’t to prevent catching covid but it’s to keep you out of the hospital if you do catch it?

Now everyone is surprised that people with the vaccine are catching it?

 

[GimpYancIent]

Weren’t we told that the vaccine isn’t to prevent catching covid but it’s to keep you out of the hospital if you do catch it?

Now everyone is surprised that people with the vaccine are catching it?

LOL, truth in advertising

 

[mmascari]

No, they don't. At least not in one place with very detailed data. I posted this chart from Ontario, Canada last week. It doesn't show boosted which would be nice but it certainly doesn't support your hypothesis.


View attachment 611749

The NY graph shows the exact opposite.

COVID-19 Breakthrough Data

Cases and hospitalizations by vaccination status

coronavirus.health.ny.gov

What's up with the Ontario data that the table view for that graph doesn't have any data by age group after October 24, just the All Ages bucket.

Beyond picking one graph here and one there, is there any larger study that reflects one way or the other?

All the individual state graphs I've noticed (and I didn't find one on the CDC site), seem to match the NY outcome not the Ontario one.

 

[Roy G. Dis]

Everything will be better by March.

 

[DisneyCane]

The NY graph shows the exact opposite.

COVID-19 Breakthrough Data

Cases and hospitalizations by vaccination status

coronavirus.health.ny.gov

What's up with the Ontario data that the table view for that graph doesn't have any data by age group after October 24, just the All Ages bucket.

Beyond picking one graph here and one there, is there any larger study that reflects one way or the other?

All the individual state graphs I've noticed (and I didn't find one on the CDC site), seem to match the NY outcome not the Ontario one.

For the NY data, there are some key words/statements on the page. For cases, they have no way of really knowing the vaccination status of positive results which Ontario does. From the page:

As of data received through December 28, 2021, the New York State Department of Health is aware of:

The word "aware" is important. Further down, it states:

To measure the real-world effectiveness of vaccines in reducing cases and hospitalizations, compared to unvaccinated people, additional information and analyses are necessary.

Hospitalization breakthrough data is probably a little more accurate but it is still going to be based on the patient telling the providers if they are vaccinated or not.

I don't know anything about the data issues.

 

[Disneydad1012]

I woke up with a sore throat today here in MA trying to find a test is almost impossible. I was able to get one but had to book "for 2 people" since a single wasn't available till 1/10. What I found most frustrating was places that had no availabilitly but when choosing to pay out of pocket($180) there were spots available.

 

[correcaminos]

People with compromised immune systems will always be at risk because there will always be spread. Apply what I bolded to other debates and you may feel differently.

The people in those categories will have to take extra precautions like wearing an N95 (or equivalent) respirator whenever they are around other people.

You say the vaccinated are way less likely to spread SARS-CoV-2. Can you quantify that especially with Omicron? It doesn't seem to me that there is any evidence that the people with compromised immune systems will be significantly safer from the Omicron variant even with 100% vaccination.

So make the immune compromised suffer. Got it.

My friend who is normally in great health is having to suffer because of fools. Temporary too. They are told to stay home period. It sucks. Won't even go into cancer patients and the like.

Enough with your anti-vax comments. Seriously you never quit. I get it, you want your life back. I do too. But not at the expense of my friends in the medical field.

 

[Kman]

So let me try and understand the logic here. They are concerned about holiday gatherings leading to the hospitals being overwhelmed. They are predisposed to authoritarian mitigation measures so either way they will be doing something that I would vehemently disagree with and be thankful that I live very far away from Ontario.

The solution to keeping the hospitals from getting overwhelmed due to holiday gatherings is not to preemptively limit the gatherings but instead to close indoor dining (which has never been proven to be a major contributor to spread), limiting retail capacity to 25%, cancelling ticketed events and limiting indoor gatherings two weeks after the ones that possibly led to the overwhelming of hospitals already happened?

That makes a ton of sense!

Once again thanks for the US perspective. 830K+ dead in less than 2 years vs. 30K+ (based on population you should be at approximately 300K). I'm not arguing Ontario or Canada is doing everything right and I certainly don't agree with everything but the US has no grounds to scoff at other country's efforts. Your "efforts" have been pathetic and have had tragic results.

On a side note, I burst out laughing when I saw that Texas was asking for help from the federal government to mitigate COVID! That's ironic considering the ridiculous and, quite frankly, appalling approach by that state.

 

[Lilofan]

Once again thanks for the US perspective. 830K+ dead in less than 2 years vs. 30K+ (based on population you should be at approximately 300K). I'm not arguing Ontario or Canada is doing everything right and I certainly don't agree with everything but the US has no grounds to scoff at other country's efforts. Your "efforts" have been pathetic and have had tragic results.

On a side note, I burst out laughing when I saw that Texas was asking for help from the federal government to mitigate COVID! That's ironic considering the ridiculous and, quite frankly, appalling approach by that state.

The same Texas looking for help who were against vaccine mandates.

 

[correcaminos]

Weren’t we told that the vaccine isn’t to prevent catching covid but it’s to keep you out of the hospital if you do catch it?

Now everyone is surprised that people with the vaccine are catching it?

We were never asymptomatic testing randomly for trials. It relies on people to test and report. I've taken covid tests for the trial but never told my results too. I'm not surprised by no or even low symptoms. Those likely were not reported early in the trials.