Nubs70
Well-Known Member
On your side note, Michigan has had federal Covid help for the last month or so. Nature of the virus not state legislation .
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
That’s what I did. Came home from work travels with muscle aches and general fatigue. Self-isolated and that’s that. Figured my J&J friend worked for me.
No. I don’t think I’m any more or less immune than before. I think that either way I have some protection over catching covid and landing in the hospital.
ArmoredRodent
Well-Known Member
Reply briefs were filed today (Monday, Jan. 3) in the four vaccine mandate cases which will be argued at the Supreme Court this Friday. Think you had a busy New Years weekend? In four days, some excellent lawyers frantically churned out hundreds of pages of legal arguments for these and their supporting briefs. Mark Twain (co-host of the American Adventure in Epcot) is often mistakenly quoted as saying: "If I'd had more time, I'd have written a shorter letter." What he actually said is more interesting and more complete: "“you’ll have to excuse my lengthiness – the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get a slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost." That's likely here, since there won't be time for Supreme Court Justices and clerks to review, absorb and reflect on all the arguments made.
The Replies were generally well-written and persuasive. Judged on their own, each Reply made a strong case: President Biden's federal government brief in the Medicare medical facilities cases went point-by-point through the arguments for why health care was different, based on the statutory language, the fact that government payments and contracts were at issue, and the strong governmental interests in protecting lives. The business communities' brief in the OSHA workplace rule cases was the mirror image of the federal Reply, stressing how the emergency rule was an outlier beyond earlier cases, was much broader than needed (as well as not targeted to the actual problem), and would likely affect much more than simply workplaces.
But given the limited time involved, it's probably better just to look at these Replies as summarizing each parties' positions, rather than making new or better arguments. So, some summaries:
Biden Federal brief, Pp. 2-3, 30:
This is not a case where an agency is acting outside its expertise or regulating in an area Congress has not authorized. Nor do these cases involve any federal intrusion into matters reserved to the States. Instead, a federal healthcare agency adopted a familiar health and safety requirement to protect patients in the federal healthcare programs the agency administers, pursuant to express statutory authority to do just that.
The ongoing COVID-19 surge has driven case rates to new highs -- up more than fourfold since the Secretary issued the rule in early
November and nearly threefold since the government filed its applications just over two weeks ago. ...
The rule has never been more necessary than it is now, as the virtually unanimous support of healthcare organizations demonstrates. Absent stays, the preliminary injunctions will likely result in hundreds or thousands of deaths and serious illnesses from COVID-19 that could otherwise be prevented. Respondents’ speculative assertions about the rule’s effect on staffing pale in comparison to the overwhelming public interest in saving lives and preventing serious illness.
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In short, granting a stay pending appeal may save hundreds or thousands of lives and would not preclude granting meaningful relief in the unlikely event that respondents ultimately prevail.
Business communities' brief, Pp. 1, 25:Unless this Court immediately stays the ETS’s effective date, on January 10, America’s businesses will immediately begin incurring billions in nonrecoverable compliance costs, and they will lose employees amid a preexisting labor shortage. The ETS will irreparably injure the very businesses that Americans have counted on to widely distribute COVID-19 vaccines and protective equipment to save lives—and to keep them fed, clothed, and sustained during this now two-year-long pandemic. OSHA’s sweeping regulatory dictate will convert hundreds of thousands of businesses into de facto public health agencies for two-thirds of America’s private employees.
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COVID-19 is a general, society-wide public health issue for the appropriate federal, state, and local public health agencies to address. It is not a distinctly occupational issue, and OSHA may not pass the buck to America’s private employers. The federal Government instead should allow businesses to focus on doing their jobs: sustaining commerce during a worldwide pandemic for the benefit of all Americans. At the same time, state and local health officials can continue performing their jobs at finding public health solutions, with the support of the crucial federal resources offered by the President.
The likely reason the Supreme Court decided to hold quick briefing and arguments in these important cases was to be sure that everyone saw that all the important issues were explored and considered. That would bolster the legitimacy of the decisions in the eyes of the public, which is always important when a case involves what lawyers call "rights vs. rights." (And at this level, every case involves conflicting rights and interests.) Mission accomplished here.
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
Didn't say you specifically. This is a real issue though. Much like the people who claimed they had covid and natural immunity. They didn't. Get tested or assume you had a cold. Don't pretend you had it when you don't know. Colds normally don't land healthy people in the hospital either - so not sure what you are meaning by your last statement.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
The irony here is that by in large (in most of the Western World), team let it rip has gotten their way.
They’ll still get their way. Yet gnash their teeth endlessly.
Truly this is mental health. The louder someone is proclaiming people who are afraid should stay in their basements, the more I’m realizing we’ve not addressed anxiety from the other side. It’s all consuming, whether masks remind them of the pandemic. Or there is constant anxiety that at any moment their suffering small business could go on hiatus and close forever. Or their children could be sent virtual and they simply have no means of finding childcare. Or they are simply worried about whatever social calendar plan or trip being disrupted. Or a vaccine mandate might force them to choose between their livelihoods and their indoctrination.
Unfortunately, it’s a self defeating prophecy. Many of us can see that and can do little to help them. I don’t know if calling it out is helpful, but it has become toxic and anti-productive. But it most certainly is anxiety and stems from mental health.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
If you’re vaccinated it really doesn’t matter, you aren’t going to change your behavior regardless of if you actually had it or not.
Mich bigger deal for unvaxxed who think they are now protected though.
DisneyDebRob
Well-Known Member
If you believe the lies in that post.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I’m not pretending I had it. I was cautious in case I did and feel like it’s very possible I had it.
We've been thru this with you many times, take your anti-vaxx propaganda and stop posting your nonsense.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Exactly. That was my point.
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
Right it can vary a lot with whoever has it. I am seeing vaxxed but not boosted claiming that it just shows no one should vaccinated or boost. Problem is some of these people don't know if they had it, the flu, or something else.
Creates a false sense of reality as a whole.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Conspiracy theorists are saying that the CDC is saying PCR tests are not reliable. The CDC itself is not saying this. Stop buying into conspiracy theories just because you like what they have to say.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
You already have the stats of how Omicron affects outcomes for those aged 65+ with unknown waning immunity? South Africa can’t prove those due to a lack of old people. Israel can’t due to their booster strategy. Neither can the UK because they have a 90% booster rate for people over 50. How many seniors in FL or nationally are boosted? Or will we just pivot back to "old people are gonna die anyway" and go back to advocating to lock the vulnerable away to protect them?...which I'll point out is what you've said your mother is choosing to do and you can't stand that either.
Also you remain focused on the clinical outcome despite warning after warning that what is at risk is system collapse. Without evidence that an Omicron wave, even of diminished amplitude will not result in a continued crisis operational state which will result in poor clinical outcomes for non-Covid things. Nor does a Omicron wave ending fix labor shortages. It does not magically result in thousands of people enrolling in nursing and medical technical programs. Watching all of this unfold with so little concern for the people tasked to deal with workload is a deterrent. People already lament the shortages in other essential fields that are reaching critical mass point due to Boomer retirements, while pretending that all those Boomers didn't tell their kids and grandkids, "Whatever you do, don't go into my profession because it will tear up your body / poor mental health and the pay won't compensate for it," greatly affecting the willingness of younger folks to enter professions that would be so physically and mentally damaging (personal responsibility!).
My state has a hospital report on our dashboard. 51% of hospitals are expecting staff shortages in the coming week. 35% are expecting ICU bed shortages. It's good news for Floridians if they can avoid seeking hospital care in such an environment. But it just points out the problem that keeps playing out, "I got mine / don’t need it, so who cares what's happening anywhere else."
disneygeek90
Well-Known Member
I didn't see that the CDC say PCR not reliable. What are they saying is reliable then?? Not questioning you, genuinely curious.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
If we have Covid, my DH will go to the movies and eating out again in the next few weeks. If we don’t know, despite being vaccinated he won’t. So yes, knowing will affect our behavior. In one case restaurants and movie theaters get increased business in the other they don’t.
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
Your posts above about figuring J&J worked say otherwise. Why even act like you had it if you won't test? With J&J a booster is highly recommended too.
We're not all getting vaccinated is the issue. @Polkadotdress did everything they can personally do. All that's left is to get community spread reduced to a point that going out in public isn't wading into a cloud of virus. The actual immunity provided by the herd. A herd that's not pulling it's weight and not providing that protection today.
What we're seeing is a bunch of people who are saying "herd immunity will protect us" to mean everyone should just get sick and once it's happened to enough people, we'll be good. Ignoring that there's always more new people. So, they both want everyone to get sick as the solution along with wanting all new kids to get sick too. And who cares what the impact of getting sick is, it's just survival of the fittest.
At the same time, that group is against doing the things that would actually get enough people vaccinated to provide herd immunity and protection without everyone having to get sick. They want it to be a personal individual solution to what is a group activity.
None of it makes any sense. From a practical standpoint, the faster we can vaccinate as many people as possible, the least amount of impact there would be to anything else. Less day to day, less economic, less healthcare, faster return to prior normal. So, there's a group that wants all those things, while simultaneously wanting to not do the things that will make that happen, either personally or not the actions that get everyone else to do them too.
I'm fine with someone making what I believe is the stupid ridiculous decision to not vaccinate themselves. If they want to personally own that decision, good for them. However, I'm not fine with them imposing the decision and all of its impacts on the rest of us. That decision is directly responsible for extending the impacts of COVID. If they could be trusted to make that decision and then stay in a basement forever, never imposing their ability to easily incubate and spread COVID to anyone else, great. They cannot, and the result of that is discussion around rules to either force that outcome or deal with second best solutions.
As many have pointed out, the second best solutions are nowhere near as good as just getting everyone vaccinated.
This wiggle we see from posters of "personally vaccinated, but others don't need to and they can still be part of society" is garbage. Those people are NOT for ending COVID impacts. They're for letting them just linger on forever. They're lying to themselves that they want COVID to be over, clearly they do not.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
This makes no sense to me, do you trust natural infection more than the vaccine?
Until data says otherwise I have full faith in my Pfizer vaccine, when data showed effectiveness was decreasing I got boosted, what’s the point of “follow the science” if we don’t follow the science?
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