Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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mf1972

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the number of patients at my hospital shot up. was 75-78 last week, but it’s 119 as of tuesday. that’s a pretty big spike. i was told from a few nurses i know that a few medical floors are getting converted to hold covid patients again. this happened back in 2020 as well.
i was at target today & noticed that the cold medicine aisle was cleaned out. i’ll just assume it’s due to covid.
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DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
the number of patients at my hospital shot up. was 75-78 last week, but it’s 119 as of tuesday. that’s a pretty big spike. i was told from a few nurses i know that a few medical floors are getting converted to hold covid patients again. this happened back in 2020 as well.
i was at target today & noticed that the cold medicine aisle was cleaned out. i’ll just assume it’s due to covid.
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What state is your hospital in?

Perhaps the empty cold medicine shelves are due to confused meth cooks? 😀
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
the number of patients at my hospital shot up. was 75-78 last week, but it’s 119 as of tuesday. that’s a pretty big spike. i was told from a few nurses i know that a few medical floors are getting converted to hold covid patients again. this happened back in 2020 as well.
i was at target today & noticed that the cold medicine aisle was cleaned out. i’ll just assume it’s due to covid.
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Same thing I've been seeing, either supply chain or a lot of people stocking up or sick
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
It’s interesting to me that a new talking point has emerged whenever it’s pointed out that hospitalisatons are rising: “It must be Delta.” Why make this assumption? Even if Omicron is generally milder (which does indeed appear to be the case), some cases of it are going to be more severe (especially, and perhaps almost exclusively, in the unvaccinated), and with case numbers through the roof, those in need of hospitalisation because of Omicron can quickly add up.
 

ArmoredRodent

Well-Known Member
The dockets are really short: https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/21a240.html; https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/21a244.html. If you look at the dockets, you'll see that the Court shortened the time involved by a LOT. Very few briefs filed already, and briefs are to be filed by Dec 30.
Update on the Vaccine Mandates cases now being considered by the Supreme Court of the United States; dockets accessible at the links in the quotation above. Briefs were filed today, and final reply briefs are due Monday. Oral arguments will be held on Friday, January 3, beginning at 10AM EST. The Court did permit "divided argument," meaning both that more than one lawyer can argue for each side, and that each of those lawyers will get only 15 minutes at the podium, rather than the usual 30, for each of the two cases in each of the two consolidated arguments. But the lawyers seem quite good, so the shorter fast-paced arguments should also be good.

One explanation circulating for why the Court made the surprise decision to hold an expedited oral argument is that it wanted to head off criticism of any decisions without full briefing and argument. As discussed higher in this thread, the main topics of the briefings were the extent of the relevant federal agencies' statutory authority to enact the mandates, whether the agencies met the procedural requirements for issuing such rules, and the specific impacts of the rules. The parties' briefs were very good, but a few important points:
*there is a distinct difference in the briefs written before the rapid spread of omicron and newer briefs, including the inclusion of the newest argument circulating in the media: "we need workers and these mandates cut the supply of workers we need."​
*the biggest test (as discussed earlier in this thread) may be over the "major question" doctrine, which, distilled, says that courts should not defer to regulatory agencies' expertise if the proposed regulatory expansion would be too broad. IOW, we won't allow agencies to expand their own authority too far; e.g., "the OSHA rule would affect 84 million Americans."​
*in all four cases, the most important two jurists appear to be Justice Kavanaugh (with lots of quotations to opinions he wrote while on the D.C. Circuit appeals court) and Sixth Circuit Chief Judge Jeff Sutton (with whom I worked on several matters before he went on the bench, and he is both very capable and well-regarded by the Supremes). Judge Sutton wrote a dissent in an earlier proceeding in the OSHA mandate case, and one theme seems to resonate in the briefs: earlier cases dealing with mask mandates should not control here because you can remove a mask, but can't remove a vaccination. That is, should the Court permit an emergency rule, which will expire within a few weeks, to impose a permanent "medical procedure"?​

It is likely that live audio will be made available by the Court for the oral arguments beginning at 10AM EST on Friday, January 7. Audio should also be available on the Court's website at some point afterwards
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion, and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.
 

Joesixtoe

Well-Known Member
I'm all for vaccine passports and have been since day 1.
Your only argument for vaccine mandates is the over crowded hospitalizations. Now that it's finally extremely obvious that vaccinated spread it, that point is now off the table. So let's learn from history and stop accusing a certain population of having a disease and lets stop the segregation.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Your only argument for vaccine mandates is the over crowded hospitalizations. Now that it's finally extremely obvious that vaccinated spread it, that point is now off the table.
Vaccinated people don’t typically need hospitalisation, so you are wrong to say that the point is no longer relevant. If everyone were vaccinated, hospitals wouldn’t be (or risk being) overwhelmed with people suffering from COVID. That’s a fact.
 
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Joesixtoe

Well-Known Member
Vaccinated people don’t typically need hospitalisation, so you are wrong to say that the point is no longer relevant. If everyone were vaccinated, hospitals wouldn’t be, or risk being, overwhelmed with people suffering from COVID. That’s a fact.
I think you misread my statement.
 

Joesixtoe

Well-Known Member
Vaccinated people don’t typically need hospitalisation, so you are wrong to say that the point is no longer relevant. If everyone were vaccinated, hospitals wouldn’t be, or risk being, overwhelmed with people suffering from COVID. That’s a fact.
Or more so maybe I wasn't clear. I'm saying the main argument was that vaccinated people don't spread covid much. That's finally obvious that's untrue. So the only argument is the overcrowded hospitalizations.
 

Joesixtoe

Well-Known Member
Can you clarify how I misread it? You seemed to be saying that since vaccines don’t stop people spreading the virus, they are not effective at keeping hospital numbers down. Did I misunderstand you?
Vaccines do help keep Covid hospitalizations down and Covid death rates. Thus the overcrowded argument is basically the only point left. So the whole segregation of unvaccinated and vaccinated shouldn't even be a thought.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Or more so maybe I wasn't clear. I'm saying the main argument was that vaccinated people don't spread covid much. That's finally obvious that's untrue. So the only argument is the overcrowded hospitalizations.
Isn’t that argument enough?

I asked you before and you didn’t answer, but, barring medical exemption, why wouldn’t someone take the vaccine? What are the drawbacks as you see them?
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I would caution against using such charged words as “segregation” in relation to vaccine passports. To be discriminated against on the basis of your race, nationality, religion, etc. is very different from being kept out of a bar because you refuse to get a free and safe vaccine.
 
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Joesixtoe

Well-Known Member
Isn’t that argument enough?

I asked you before and you didn’t answer, but, barring medical exemption, why wouldn’t someone take the vaccine? What are the drawbacks as you see them?
I apologize I must have missed the question. It's not the easiest question to answer on a forum as it can be a forever argument. I personally when shopping for anything I take a long time to carefully choose what I want. So personally speaking I wanted to wait and see how people would react from the shot. Long term studies. However I've had covid, and natural immunity has been shown to be a great defense and one recognized in many countries. So essentially a virus with a very low death rate in my age group, no long term studies(I get the blow back from this), a country that doesn't advocate for better health/immune system building nor natural immunity (when it did at first, until vaccines rolled out) but just push vaccines and say it's the only way... then push for more vaccines. Everything that's been said has been altered. I'm reminded of Vader to Lando in Empire Strikes Back. I've altered the deal, pray I don't alter it any further. This is mainly my reasoning. I also have religious reasons. But I'll save that.
 

Joesixtoe

Well-Known Member
I would caution against using such charged words as “segregation” in relation to vaccine passports. To be discriminated against on the basis of your race, nationality, religion, etc. is very different from being kept out of a bar because you refuse to get a free and safe vaccine.
I get it, but its been pushed far beyond bars. Especially in other countries.
 
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