Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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Tom P.

Well-Known Member
I do accept it.
Being free, includes a risk factor to ones own personal life.
I'm not advocating opening everything up, and certainly not all at once.
But we can't stay locked away forever, and as the valve opens hospitalizations and deaths will creep up.
The trick is in managing the flow rate of that valve to one the healthcare systems can handle.
I keep seeing the "we can't be closed forever" argument. But, as far as I know, no one is suggesting leaving the economy shut down forever. So far, it's been less than two months. Even if it were 6 months, that is not forever. Just because someone thinks that right now is not the appropriate time does not mean they are advocating a permanent shutdown.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
This isn't the first mass disease. But nor will it be the last. At some point we need to start resuming "normal" daily activities, the workforce, etc. Staying on lockdown forever isn't sustainable.
Did you read the first sentence of my comment? I don't think we need to stay on lock-down, but there needs to be measures taken to ensure that those who are in the work-force but are high risk aren't put in unnecessary danger. Currently, they have zero choice but to work if they're currently laid off and called back to work.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
I’m officially spent.

Chemistry is documented interactions amongst molecules

Biology is researched response/adaptation but it is constantly in motion...making it the wildcard.

Science is real...people talk out of a bad part of their anatomy...which is real science.

A brain is a horrible thing to use inappropriately.

Good day, ladies and non-germs

Science is a tool, a mechanism.
Science is not a reality in and of itself.
That's the beauty of it.
It's flexible and not a static.
Some of its findings like distances, times, speeds, weights etc. are usually certain.
But, other conclusions can become proven wrong or adjusted by new data.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
I keep seeing the "we can't be closed forever" argument. But, as far as I know, no one is suggesting leaving the economy shut down forever. So far, it's been less than two months. Even if it were 6 months, that is not forever. Just because someone thinks that right now is not the appropriate time does not mean they are advocating a permanent shutdown.

Everyone will have their own idea about what a long time is, and about what should be opened up and when.
 

Polynesia

Well-Known Member
That’s way more aggressive than what I would do, but I’m not in charge ;)

I think the plan makes sense but I would say June 1st for a soft opening and then wait a few weeks to a month to re-open to all US guests. That assumes all or most states are in or close to phase 3 and they have seen no issues during the soft open period. It also assumes there is profit to be made with an extended soft open which is likely the problem. If there isn’t Disney won’t open at a loss for long.
Your time frame is much more sensible. I think a lot will depend on if there’s a surge of new cases. Testing sites are still ramping up, which is good to capture as much as we can and handle it. It was mentioned more sites will be available so employers can send employees to be tested if ill once businesses start to reopen. It seems like a good plan. The devil is always in the details and it’ll have to be monitored closely.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Your time frame is much more sensible. I think a lot will depend on if there’s a surge of new cases. Testing sites are still ramping up, which is good to capture as much as we can and handle it. It was mentioned more sites will be available so employers can send employees to be tested if ill once businesses start to reopen. It seems like a good plan. The devil is always in the details and it’ll have to be monitored closely.
June 1st isn't happening. Just cause Disney started reservations then doesn't mean they have to open then. Especially if they implement the rumored changes. A of people will have to change their vacation again.
 

csmat99

Well-Known Member
Science is a tool, a mechanism.
Science is not a reality in and of itself.
That's the beauty of it.
It's flexible and not a static.
Some of its findings like distances, times, speeds, weights etc. are usually certain.
But, other conclusions can become proven wrong or adjusted by new data.
You are joking right? Science is not flexible. Gravity is what it is. It is measured and exact. You can't just pick and choose what science you want to believe in.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
It also assumes there is profit to be made with an extended soft open which is likely the problem. If there isn’t Disney won’t open at a loss for long.

Since Disney is losing money every day as it is, they may think it’s a good idea to open ASAP so they can learn what works and what does not, how guests react etc.

It’s going to be an interesting restart for everyone.
 

Polynesia

Well-Known Member
PHOTOS: Shanghai Disneyland Sets Up “Social Distancing” Queues for Imminent Reopening
 

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Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Vegas is opening up, why not Disney? The Berlin wall is crumbling again as we speak.

I could argue Disney has an obligation and will be pressured by their employees and Orlando to open.
I'm not saying Disney isn't opening but it's not opening back to the way it was. June 1st may happen but not for resorts or not all of them. That is why I keep saying opening up reservations for June 1st was a bad idea.

Do you think when Disney reopens its going to be like it was when they closed?
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
Who do you take seriously then? Certainly not any politicians or Fortune 500 executives!

At least a few higher ups at Disney started out in the parks... (George K., Josh, etc.) but they are still low on the corporate ladder.

I’m guessing John Lassiter is the highest anyone has gotten of someone that started out in the parks, and he wouldn’t have gotten that high up if he hadn’t left Disney for Pixar (well it wasn’t Pixar yet...).
I dont disagree, though many executives have probably worked their way up in life and maybe manned a grill at some point.
I dont know a ton about Abigailand I dont necessarily disagree with her which is why I posted it. But just because she is related to someone who was once important to the company and how it was run, it doesnt mean she her thoughts on it hold any more weight than yours are mine.
 
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csmat99

Well-Known Member
Vegas is opening up, why not Disney? The Berlin wall is crumbling again as we speak.

I could argue Disney has an obligation and will be pressured by their employees and Orlando to open.
So you are basically saying Disney should just open because someone else is doing it? If that is the case everyone should be jumping off the bridge just because someone else did right? You can't open unless there is a plan, testing and a way to limit spread of the virus. Places like Disney are ripe for major outbreak. No one is saying that places should stay closed forever. But you have to be smart about it. The governor of Georgia is not being smart. Opening a tattoo or massage parlor is a joke. You can't get any closer to another person.
 

Tink242424

Well-Known Member
You are stating a lot of things that are unproven. For the business margin issue, there needs to be some kind of assistance plan to make up the difference in revenue. That would be cheaper for the government than paying all the unemployment.

The 6 foot thing is a lot more scientifically sound than you make it out to be. The entire world is using that recommendation (2 meters in metric countries). You are also talking about completely uncovered sneezes and coughs. The droplets fall to the ground relatively quickly which is how they came up with the 6 foot thing. A ceiling fan is likely to force them down faster and how many places have AC that is like being in a wind tunnel like you describe?

For the concession issue, first what does hand to mouth have to do with anything? Wash your hands or use sanitizer before eating. Like with restaurants there would have to be some kind of assistance to make up for lost revenue due to the reduced capacity or not selling concessions.

Nothing outside of a true lockdown where nobody can leave their residence for any reason for probably a month unless they are wearing full PPE would "keep people safe."

We need to come to terms with the fact that nothing, including the current "safer at home" orders is going to prevent further spread of the virus and more deaths. We also need to come to terms with the fact that doing the current measures is not a sustainable strategy and does lead to some level of death as well.

Studies show that the majority of spread happens inside the home or in workplaces with people close together in confined spaces for prolonged periods of time. I believe these studies because how else can you explain the continued spread in Italy and Spain long after the lockdowns were started? The curves in neither country indicate a rapid decline in new daily cases.

I haven't had time to analyze every single outbreak in the world but from a 40,000 foot view, the areas with major outbreaks seem to have a few things in common. The areas are densely populated, have relatively high usage of mass transit and, possibly most importantly have more compact/dense living spaces, many times with multi generational households.

In the more rural areas of the US, the major outbreaks seem to happen in nursing homes and meat packing plants, not a among customers at Walmart. Sure there will be some spread at Walmart and other businesses which provide seeds for the nursing homes and meat packing plants but if you screened the people entering nursing homes and dense workplaces like meat packing plants you would pretty much eliminate the outbreaks in those areas.

The stated goal of all of these measures was to flatten the curve and prevent overwhelming the healthcare system, not to "keep people safe." Outside of the NYC metro area and a few select metro areas there hasn't really been an issue. Even in Florida, outside of Miami-Dade (and maybe Broward) there isn't really an issue anymore. In the last week, Miami-Dade accounts for 37% of all daily new cases in Florida while only representing 12.6% of the population of Florida.

As to how this relates to WDW, WDW was absolutely packed until the closure on 3/15. There were clearly a large number of people already infected at that point but the cases were not known due to either being asymptomatic, mild or the testing capacity was not adequate at the time. However, I have seen no report of a significant number of cases directly tied back to WDW in mid March. As with a rural Walmart, I'm sure there was some spread that happened, it just doesn't appear that there was what would be considered an "outbreak" at WDW.

My sense is that if you eliminated the densely packed, long duration queues by using some kind of virtual queue system (either all FP+ or some kind of boarding group system that worked like the old FP system for standby), suspended parades and fireworks, encouraged hand washing/hand sanitizer and put into place enhanced sanitizing of surfaces, there would be a relatively small amount of virus spread at WDW. The spread would very likely be at a low enough level that anybody under age 65 and without a serious risk factor could visit WDW without having a significantly higher chance of dying as a result of the visit than the chance of dying from some other cause in the same period of time.

I fully expect the response that the small number of low risk people that get infected at WDW can then spread the virus to high risk people when they get home. First, the same low risk people can get infected at the grocery store. Second, if you can't stay away from high risk people for 14 days after returning from WDW then don't go to WDW. Let's not go to the "six degrees of separation scenario" of somebody getting infected at WDW because they came into contact with somebody from a different area from where they live and then returning to the area where they live and going grocery shopping and spreading it to somebody in the grocery store. Assuming there are social distancing and sanitary measures at the grocery store (or other location) in the home area, the prevalence of this type of spread due to visiting WDW is going to be very low.

Notice I didn't say that the risk is zero. I accept the fact that with WDW open there will be some number of people infected that wouldn't have been infected if it remained closed. I believe that if WDW opened with some modification to the operation, the benefits of both the enjoyment of the guests and employment of the CMs would FAR outweigh the detrimental effect of the unlucky people that end up with a serious illness or death due to WDW operating. People in the high risk groups can choose to stay away from WDW (or any other public place) to minimize the risk that they get sick although they should have the right to take the risk if they want to.

This is by far the best written explanation of how I feel. Thank you for putting this together!!
 

MaximumEd

Well-Known Member
Of course not...because the price of oil/gas is manipulated by governments and has been for 100 years...it’s not “capitalist” at all...

“Now let’s go over to sports with Bob”

Not once in what I posted did I mention price manipulation, government influence, or capitalism. I was simply giving the long term implications of having to turn off then turn on a bunch of wells
 
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DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
It's not a question of New York, it's a question of the whole country. Disney can't say, "we will take guests from Nebraska, but New York guests are prohibited" -- That would raise all sorts of legal issues.

A private business can refuse service to anybody as long as it is not based on race, color, creed, gender, age or sexual orientation. They can discriminate against residents of a state or multiple states all they want.
 
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