Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyDebRob]

I think COVID was in the US as far back as Nov. we just didn’t know what it was. Just my opinion.

Could have been. Then maybe not. Could have been here in December or January, maybe not. That’s the thing in a nutshell. No one on here knows we are all guessing. So much unknown. This is still a very fluid situation because we have so much incomplete data. So when people say open everything up or keep everything closed, it’s a guess on what we have learned so far. Today will bring another piece of info as will tomorrow. We need to listen to the experts and science. Whichever way it leads us, that’s the way we should go. Don’t move ahead because our heart or wallet says so, we move ahead when the science is well versed in the situation. If that means tomorrow then we move that way. If it means next month so be it.

 

[DisneyCane]

How Police Departments Try to Force Google to Hand Over Data on Anyone Near a Crime Scene

Privacy advocates argue it violates the Fourth Amendment.

slate.com

From the article, "There have only been anecdotal reports of reverse location searches, so it’s unclear how widespread the practice is."

The reason I asked the question is because getting a warrant or subpoena for phone and location records is not as easy as people think or as you see on TV.

I was directly involved in an investigation for a missing adult about two years ago as an acquaintance of the missing person. I gave the detective the person's cell phone numbers so that he could track down the locations where the phone was used. It was an ordeal for him to get a subpoena for the records. He told me that the courts are very reluctant to grant subpoenas and warrants for phone location records due to privacy concerns. He eventually was able to subpoena the records (it's a subpoena for past records and a warrant for real time info) and was never granted a warrant (not that it would have mattered because the phones were powered off and went straight to voicemail).

This was a detective in a police department in Broward County, FL so they aren't dealing with "fringe" judges. The person was never found and is presumed dead.

 

[Patcheslee]

That doesn't like it would be very effective if they're only approaching Google...wonder if they ask Apple for the same info.

I know of at least 1 instance the local PD used a FB message ping to track a fugitive.

 

[DisneyCane]

Could have been. Then maybe not. Could have been here in December or January, maybe not. That’s the thing in a nutshell. No one on here knows we are all guessing. So much unknown. This is still a very fluid situation because we have so much incomplete data. So when people say open everything up or keep everything closed, it’s a guess on what we have learned so far. Today will bring another piece of info as will tomorrow. We need to listen to the experts and science. Whichever way it leads us, that’s the way we should go. Don’t move ahead because our heart or wallet says so, we move ahead when the science is well versed in the situation. If that means tomorrow then we move that way. If it means next month so be it.

The available science indicates that outdoor spread isn't really a thing so why are beaches and parks still closed in many areas if we are following the science?

 

[DisneyCane]

I know of at least 1 instance the local PD used a FB message ping to track a fugitive.

A judge is going to be willing to issue a warrant for a fugitive's location data. What they aren't going to do is issue a warrant or subpoena to find every phone that was at near the location of a crime during the time period of the crime.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

The available science indicates that outdoor spread isn't really a thing so why are beaches and parks still closed in many areas if we are following the science?

Except for a study from China that was released the other day, which I dismiss because it’s China, the studies go back and forth. In almost everyone study they continue to say it’s not black and white. Just read one this morning. As I said before, you can find what you want to prove your point (not you, I mean anyone)in any of these studies. Not one yet has said, it is perfectly safe to do this or that. It usually says, if you keep this distance and etc.. you should be ok.
Most do say being spread out is ok

 

[ImperfectPixie]

The available science indicates that outdoor spread isn't really a thing so why are beaches and parks still closed in many areas if we are following the science?

That just doesn't jive with anything I've read. Sure, the virus doesn't live AS LONG in sunlight, but that doesn't mean outdoor spread doesn't happen...especially if people are close together.

 

[DisneyCane]

Except for a study from China that was released the other day, which I dismiss because it’s China, the studies go back and forth. In almost everyone study they continue to say it’s not black and white. Just read one this morning. As I said before, you can find what you want to prove your point (not you, I mean anyone)in any of these studies. Not one yet has said, it is perfectly safe to do this or that. It usually says, if you keep this distance and etc.. you should be ok.
Most do say being spread out is ok

So require social distancing at the beach/park since every study says that.

 

[GoofGoof]

If contact tracing happens in the US i plan to run my phone over with my car and switch to a flip phone.

Don't tell me what to do with my belongings and body. I don't consent to mass tracking.

Did you know that contact tracing was happening all over the US and always does when infectious diseases pop up? They only stopped once the number of cases got higher than their ability to track. In the beginning of this outbreak in the US anyone who tested positive was contacted by the department of health and asked to provide a list of anyone they came in contact with. I saw an interview with a woman who was one of the early confirmed patients and she said she got a call and they asked her for a list and she gave names and numbers for friends, co-workers and family members she visited but she also went to a Cleveland Cavaliers game so obviously there is no way to trace that...unless you have a phone app.

On the phone app itself, it‘s an optional app that needs to be downloaded and turned on to work. You don’t need to get hysterical and trash your phone. You can just opt out. It’s also not mass tracking. It doesn’t use GPS it uses Bluetooth and there’s no way a cheating spouse could be caught because of it. It’s your choice what to do, but get the facts before posting inaccurate information that could mislead other people.

 

[wannabeBelle]

So require social distancing at the beach/park since every study says that.

This is exactly what is being done, by me at least. Marie

 

[DisneyCane]

That just doesn't jive with anything I've read. Sure, the virus doesn't live AS LONG in sunlight, but that doesn't mean outdoor spread doesn't happen...especially if people are close together.

I need to dig up the links but there are studies indicating outdoor spread is uncommon. A virologist in Europe somewhere said it was due to the wind disbursing the virus particles, not the sun killing it.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

So require social distancing at the beach/park since every study says that.

Yes. Don’t think we have a argument here. If it can be maintained, then from what they are saying now, yes. Enforcement of every park and beach is another conversation.

 

[DisneyCane]

This is exactly what is being done, by me at least. Marie

Except where the beaches and parks are closed like Southeast Florida where I live.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

That just doesn't jive with anything I've read. Sure, the virus doesn't live AS LONG in sunlight, but that doesn't mean outdoor spread doesn't happen...especially if people are close together.

The spread is easier in indoor areas, they are pretty much all in line with that. When it comes to outdoor they range in opinions. Still being deeply studied.

Everyone Thinks They’re Right About Masks

How the coronavirus travels through the air has become one of the most divisive debates in this pandemic.

www.google.com

Is it Safe to Exercise Outside as Coronavirus Continues to Spread?

Gyms are closed, but are the outdoors open for your workout?

www.google.com

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Except where the beaches and parks are closed like Southeast Florida where I live.

The problem is that people fall back into usual habits very quickly and policing large public spaces like a beach is costly. If people can obey social distancing, sure keep them open, but if they stop...better to close them.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

The problem is that people fall back into usual habits very quickly and policing large public spaces like a beach is costly. If people can obey social distancing, sure keep them open, but if they stop...better to close them.

That is the problem exactly. Can’t have a cop every 20-30 feet in those places to monitor everything. People will fall back into habits, we see it now so just closing everything was the answer.

 

[DisneyCane]

The problem is that people fall back into usual habits very quickly and policing large public spaces like a beach is costly. If people can obey social distancing, sure keep them open, but if they stop...better to close them.

That is the problem exactly. Can’t have a cop every 20-30 feet in those places to monitor everything. People will fall back into habits, we see it now so just closing everything was the answer.

You don't need a cop every 20-30 feet. You just need a few cops patrolling on golf carts. Most beaches can be social distanced simply by limiting parking lot capacity.

I also just gleaned something else interesting from the Florida daily report. 25.6% of all COVID-19 deaths in Florida are either employees or residents of long term care facilities (it doesn't break down employee vs. resident but I think it is safe to assume a very high percentage is residents). If all that was done was intense testing of long term care facilities, over a quarter of all the deaths in Florida would be eliminated.

 

[jmp85]

It's nothing like the flu or chicken pox.

Your phone is tracking you everywhere you go now. If it means saving lives for a year, I'll gladly give up your privacy.

Whether or not someone is lying to their spouse should have no bearing on how we go about saving lives.

It's a good thing his privacy decisions aren't yours to make.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

You don't need a cop every 20-30 feet. You just need a few cops patrolling on golf carts. Most beaches can be social distanced simply by limiting parking lot capacity.

I also just gleaned something else interesting from the Florida daily report. 25.6% of all COVID-19 deaths in Florida are either employees or residents of long term care facilities (it doesn't break down employee vs. resident but I think it is safe to assume a very high percentage is residents). If all that was done was intense testing of long term care facilities, over a quarter of all the deaths in Florida would be eliminated.

So 75% are not long term care facility deaths? That’s scary. Thought it might be less.

 

[jmp85]

The police using cell phone pings to track people's movements is very common.

Requires a warrant.

Police need warrant for GPS tracking: court

The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that police cannot put a GPS device on a suspect's car to track his movements without a warrant, a test case that upholds basic privacy rights in the face of new surveillance technology.

www.reuters.com