Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[danlb_2000]

Not trying to make light of covid, so many people's lives that will never be the same.

But it just feels time to plow forward now...

I think it's inevitable that every human will get this virus. And by the time it gets to some of us, hopefully it's what omnicron variant is showing to be (yes, so far...) - it's a mild and it's similar to a common cold. (See USA Today article today)

If you aren't vaccinated or recovered from a previous infection, you are more of just a higher risk taker. I don't buy that you are endangering anyone else at this point, the protecting measures are out there for the masses.

Why should we move forward? Because humans have done so far forever. We need to interact with each other.

If you are anxious about it, I understand it completely. Get the vaccine, get a booster, wear a mask, social distance, stay outside. Or do some of that or none of it, do what you feel is right.

If the virus takes another turn where it's more deadly, we can revisit.

But if you want to plow forward, it's time...

If we accept this as the way forward, then how do we quickly adapt our healthcare system to handle a larger number of people sick at one time then they needed to handle in the past?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Not trying to make light of covid, so many people's lives that will never be the same.

But it just feels time to plow forward now...

I think it's inevitable that every human will get this virus. And by the time it gets to some of us, hopefully it's what omnicron variant is showing to be (yes, so far...) - it's a mild and it's similar to a common cold. (See USA Today article today)

If you aren't vaccinated or recovered from a previous infection, you are more of just a higher risk taker. I don't buy that you are endangering anyone else at this point, the protecting measures are out there for the masses.

Why should we move forward? Because humans have done so far forever. We need to interact with each other.

If you are anxious about it, I understand it completely. Get the vaccine, get a booster, wear a mask, social distance, stay outside. Or do some of that or none of it, do what you feel is right.

If the virus takes another turn where it's more deadly, we can revisit.

But if you want to plow forward, it's time...

I have to disagree with the "plow forward" plan. While early signs indicate that Omicron may be less deadly, we still don't have enough data to be certain of that - and don't know how much less deadly it is. If it's 50% less deadly but 4 times more contagious then that's still a recipe for overwhelmed medical resources. Doing nothing and plowing ahead makes it much more difficult to pump the brakes later if it turns out that it was the wrong decision.

 

[danlb_2000]

61% of the entire US population is vaccinated. Further the media lies about the unvaccinated. The media reports it is Republicans that aren't vaccinated when
it is actiaually minorities, and specifically those who Vice President Harris told not to trust a Trump vaccine. Now, remember I posted over and over for people to take the vaccine but honestly looking at the science and the complete disaster J&J has been I see no reason for those under 30 to take the shot. The unknown risks of the vaccine are higher than the known risk of Covid19, with the exception of those with underlying conditions. As a person who recovered from Covid19, and a bother who was advised by hos doctor that he couldn't take the vaccine, I understand the risks and rewards of the vaccine. I took 3 shots and so did my wife. I wish everyone would respect those who take the shot and those who don't. However, both groups should accept and respect the others decissions.

There risks of the J&J are not unknown, the clotting issue was known when the vaccine first came out and was even seen during the trials. There is a risk, but it is very low, much lower then the chance of getting blood clots from the virus.

 

[AEfx]

I have to disagree with the "plow forward" plan. While early signs indicate that Omicron may be less deadly, we still don't have enough data to be certain of that - and don't know how much less deadly it is. If it's 50% less deadly but 4 times more contagious then that's still a recipe for overwhelmed medical resources. Doing nothing and plowing ahead makes it much more difficult to pump the brakes later if it turns out that it was the wrong decision.

This.

There are some real idiotic views out there (even in some media) that keep harping on "Omicron is just a cold..." that don't seem to get the simple math. Even if it is less deadly (which hopefully, it really is!), if exponentially more people get it because it is so much more contagious, then it's still large amounts of people hospitalized, and still a large number of deaths.

And that's not to mention that we still have zero idea how impactful Omicron is for Long Covid...this willy-nilly "It's fine now, it's not big deal if you get it..." is pretty reckless IMO.

 

[TehPuddingMan]

Not trying to make light of covid, so many people's lives that will never be the same.

But it just feels time to plow forward now...

I think it's inevitable that every human will get this virus. And by the time it gets to some of us, hopefully it's what omnicron variant is showing to be (yes, so far...) - it's a mild and it's similar to a common cold. (See USA Today article today)

If you aren't vaccinated or recovered from a previous infection, you are more of just a higher risk taker. I don't buy that you are endangering anyone else at this point, the protecting measures are out there for the masses.

Why should we move forward? Because humans have done so far forever. We need to interact with each other.

If you are anxious about it, I understand it completely. Get the vaccine, get a booster, wear a mask, social distance, stay outside. Or do some of that or none of it, do what you feel is right.

If the virus takes another turn where it's more deadly, we can revisit.

But if you want to plow forward, it's time...

This is the best, most sensible post in hundreds of pages.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I'm noticing more chatter recently along the lines of "... but what about treatment!", as if the efforts towards vaccination and prevention are mutually exclusive to the treatment aspect (which most of us here clearly realize is a bunk premise, but anyway...).

 

[DisneyFan32]

I don't want this forever in the future. What about trains, will they will lose masks forever. At least mask mandate will be lifted for planes, trains and buses soon.

 

[DCBaker]

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is poised to authorize a pair of pills from Pfizer Inc. and Merck & Co. to treat Covid-19 as soon as this week, according to people familiar with the matter -- a milestone in the fight against the pandemic that will soon expand therapies for the ill.

An announcement may come as early as Wednesday, according to three of the people. They asked not to be identified ahead of the authorization and cautioned that the plan could change.

Pfizer and Merck pared earlier declines on the news. Merck was trading down 0.7% at 10:43 a.m. in New York, while Pfizer was off 5.1%.

Pfizer’s pill, Paxlovid, and Merck’s molnupiravir are intended for higher-risk people who test positive for Covid. The treatments, in which patients take a series of pills at home over several days, could ease the burden on stretched hospitals with infections poised to soar through the winter in the U.S.

Spokespeople for the White House and FDA declined to comment.

“It’s the biggest thing to happen in the pandemic after vaccines,” said Eric Topol, director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute. The timing of the announcement, so late in the year, is unusual for the FDA and reflects the urgency behind the medicines, he said.

FDA’s authorizations may include limitations for populations in which they could be used, one of the people familiar with the matter said. A Food and Drug Administration advisory committee narrowly recommended the Merck pill last month, with some members of the panel citing safety concerns including for pregnant women.

The U.S. government has ordered 10 million courses of the Pfizer pill and about 3 million courses of Merck’s, which isn’t as effective, clinical studies indicate, and may carry risks. However, the pills are likely to not be immediately available in widespread supply.

In a clinical trial, Pfizer’s pill showed an 89% reduction in hospitalization for patients who received the medicine within three days of developing symptoms, compared to patients who got a placebo. None of the patients treated with the drug died.

Authorization for Pfizer’s pill would represent a vote of confidence in the medicine from regulators, as FDA advisers have not been asked to consider the drug’s clinical evidence."

Bloomberg link -

FDA Expected to Authorize Pfizer and Merck Covid Pills This Week

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Sigh, none of that is true as you are ignoring that each infection gives Covid a chance to mutate into something more deadly and less able to be mitigated with the vaccine. We dodged a bullet with Omicron being milder (jury is still out but it looks like it is set to hurt the healthcare system more than Delta has due to shear numbers) but the next or the next may not be. You make an assumption that everyone will get it, not true but if no one does anything it probably is.

I just love the “ plow forward” or the “ let them die” attitudes of some here and around the country.
When did we as a country just abandon ship and give up? We have never done that. Two years is wearing down everyone, I get that but to say.. screw it, I want my burger at the local restaurant without limitations or I want my trip to Disney the way it used to be and to hell with everyone else is just baffling to me.
Get your vaccine, get your booster, keep mitigations such as masks indoors,etc.. get the world vaccinated..and keep looking for better solutions. If not we will be here 10 years from now talking about the next mutation instead of wondering why the Yeti hasn’t been fixed yet. Which for some reason I really miss at this point.

 

[correcaminos]

Not trying to make light of covid, so many people's lives that will never be the same.

But it just feels time to plow forward now...

I think it's inevitable that every human will get this virus. And by the time it gets to some of us, hopefully it's what omnicron variant is showing to be (yes, so far...) - it's a mild and it's similar to a common cold. (See USA Today article today)

If you aren't vaccinated or recovered from a previous infection, you are more of just a higher risk taker. I don't buy that you are endangering anyone else at this point, the protecting measures are out there for the masses.

Why should we move forward? Because humans have done so far forever. We need to interact with each other.

If you are anxious about it, I understand it completely. Get the vaccine, get a booster, wear a mask, social distance, stay outside. Or do some of that or none of it, do what you feel is right.

If the virus takes another turn where it's more deadly, we can revisit.

But if you want to plow forward, it's time...

Nope sorry. I know people who are taking hospital spots from non covid people. I know kids who were not vaccinated spread it to others. Unvaccinated are higher risk for getting, spreading, and mutating. At this point those who are not vaccinated are driving the pandemic to bad levels.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

One thing I find fascinating with Omicron is its speed, it only took a few weeks for it to take over and Fauci is predicting it may recede just as quickly…

"It's going to be a matter of a couple of weeks that we then start to see just as dramatic a decline," he said. "That's what we're hoping for."

So by the time the next variant is discovered it’s already too late to get the 2 dose vaccine. Looks like we got lucky with Omicron being less deadly, we may not be so lucky if there’s another variant. If the next one ends up more deadly it’s already too late for those on the vaccination fence.

The latest from the CDC:

Fully vaccinated people: 5 times less likely to test positive, 14 times less likely to die.

Fully vaxxed and boosted people: 10 times less likely to test positive, 20 times less likely to die.

 

[DisneyFan32]

One thing I find fascinating with Omicron is its speed, it only took a few weeks for it to take over and Fauci is predicting it may recede just as quickly…

"It's going to be a matter of a couple of weeks that we then start to see just as dramatic a decline," he said. "That's what we're hoping for."

So by the time the next variant is discovered it’s already too late to get the 2 dose vaccine. Looks like we got lucky with Omicron being less deadly, we may not be so lucky if there’s another variant. If the next one ends up more deadly it’s already too late for those on the vaccination fence.

Or the COVID-19 pills is doing backup to reducing COVID-19 spreading in months to reducing variants into the less deadly and less severe.

 

[Jrb1979]

That's kind of my thought, Die and let's get this over with. Right now we are in an infinite loop of economic destruction.

It's great isn't it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not trying to make light of covid, so many people's lives that will never be the same.

But it just feels time to plow forward now...

I think it's inevitable that every human will get this virus. And by the time it gets to some of us, hopefully it's what omnicron variant is showing to be (yes, so far...) - it's a mild and it's similar to a common cold. (See USA Today article today)

If you aren't vaccinated or recovered from a previous infection, you are more of just a higher risk taker. I don't buy that you are endangering anyone else at this point, the protecting measures are out there for the masses.

Why should we move forward? Because humans have done so far forever. We need to interact with each other.

If you are anxious about it, I understand it completely. Get the vaccine, get a booster, wear a mask, social distance, stay outside. Or do some of that or none of it, do what you feel is right.

If the virus takes another turn where it's more deadly, we can revisit.

But if you want to plow forward, it's time...

This is the best, most sensible post in hundreds of pages.

Are you volunteering to forgo medical treatment if needed? Are you going to give anything to those you are demanding continue to do more work? Are you going to freely cover the work of coworkers who are out?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Pfizer has a drug that is 100% effective against death and 95% effective hospitalization. So, if the odds are thr same as with the vaccine, why not let the people decide? We can either keep giving everyone a new shot ecery 6 months or let the medical system give everyone who gets Covid the medicine. Keep in mind that after 2 years of Covid we still only have 15.4% of the population that has been infected. Again, give 330 million people a shot every 6 months or give 33 million prescriptions a year. In fact we need to do a real study on seniors cocening how often new vaccinations are needed vs how effective post infection treatment is. If they are similar and the cost is less with one of the measures we should use that treatment.

Vaccination is orders of magnitude cheaper than treatment, Ebenezer.

 

[danlb_2000]

This is the best, most sensible post in hundreds of pages.

... except for the part where it doesn't address how to handle a massive surge in hospitalizations.

 

[Lilofan]

Following in NYC footsteps , no vaccine, no service . Good!

Apparently Chicago mayor making announcement today...the rumor is starting Jan 1 all employees and patrons of businesses in Chicago (restaurants, gyms, theatres, etc.) will have to be vaccinated or proof of negative test (for employees I think) to be able to enter business.

Now how many businesses will actually comply with that is a different story.

Add to that Boston also following in NYC footsteps!

 

[JoeCamel]

I just love the “ plow forward” or the “ let them die” attitudes of some here and around the country.
When did we as a country just abandon ship and give up? We have never done that. Two years is wearing down everyone, I get that but to say.. screw it, I want my burger at the local restaurant without limitations or I want my trip to Disney the way it used to be and to hell with everyone else is just baffling to me.
Get your vaccine, get your booster, keep mitigations such as masks indoors,etc.. get the world vaccinated..and keep looking for better solutions. If not we will be here 10 years from now talking about the next mutation instead of wondering why the Yeti hasn’t been fixed yet. Which for some reason I really miss at this point.

"All for one" and "all for one" in many places

 

[mmascari]

Pfizer’s pill, Paxlovid, and Merck’s molnupiravir are intended for higher-risk people who test positive for Covid. The treatments, in which patients take a series of pills at home over several days, could ease the burden on stretched hospitals with infections poised to soar through the winter in the U.S.

FDA’s authorizations may include limitations for populations in which they could be used, one of the people familiar with the matter said. A Food and Drug Administration advisory committee narrowly recommended the Merck pill last month, with some members of the panel citing safety concerns including for pregnant women.

The U.S. government has ordered 10 million courses of the Pfizer pill and about 3 million courses of Merck’s, which isn’t as effective, clinical studies indicate, and may carry risks. However, the pills are likely to not be immediately available in widespread supply.

In a clinical trial, Pfizer’s pill showed an 89% reduction in hospitalization for patients who received the medicine within three days of developing symptoms, compared to patients who got a placebo. None of the patients treated with the drug died.

Some important nuances for those counting on the pills vs vaccination. Which, I totally don't understand. The studies on the pills and the standard of care they need to meet is so much smaller and lower than on the vaccines. If I'm reading the Pfizer press release right, there were less than 1,000 people in the study. You take the pill for several days so there's a larger build up and clearing of the medication. The Merck one doesn't work as well.

Bonus, If you don't take it within 3 days of symptoms, it's not going to do anything.

It's great to have it. For treating anyone who wasn't vaccinated or a breakthrough case. Having a treatment is certainly better than not having any treatment.

However, the odds are so much better in someone's favor and the risks so much lower to just get vaccinated first.

If someone wanted to bet me an all expense paid WDW trip, a good one super deluxe VIP all the "just buy a better trip" stuff, and the odds that I win were the same as getting vaccinated vs counting on one of these pills to save me, I would take that bet every time. Yet, people are betting their lives or long term issues (which one assumes is worth more than that trip) and they're picking the lower odds one. And they're happy taking the bad odds.

That's just the individual outcomes and completely ignores any of the spread and group impacts.

 

[JoeCamel]

Some important nuances for those counting on the pills vs vaccination. Which, I totally don't understand. The studies on the pills and the standard of care they need to meet is so much smaller and lower than on the vaccines. If I'm reading the Pfizer press release right, there were less than 1,000 people in the study. You take the pill for several days so there's a larger build up and clearing of the medication. The Merck one doesn't work as well.

Bonus, If you don't take it within 3 days of symptoms, it's not going to do anything.

It's great to have it. For treating anyone who wasn't vaccinated or a breakthrough case. Having a treatment is certainly better than not having any treatment.

However, the odds are so much better in someone's favor and the risks so much lower to just get vaccinated first.

If someone wanted to bet me an all expense paid WDW trip, a good one super deluxe VIP all the "just buy a better trip" stuff, and the odds that I win were the same as getting vaccinated vs counting on one of these pills to save me, I would take that bet every time. Yet, people are betting their lives or long term issues (which one assumes is worth more than that trip) and they're picking the lower odds one. And they're happy taking the bad odds.

That's just the individual outcomes and completely ignores any of the spread and group impacts.

People play lotto too....