Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyDebRob]

Confirmed being the operative word. There isn't nearly enough sequencing to know if he was the first. Anyone who has underlying conditions and doesn't get vaccinated is not very intelligent.

I would go as far as to say anyone who doesn’t get vaccinated, is not very intelligent. Besides the ones who can’t because of medical reasons of course.

 

[DisneyFan32]

This drug will not be widely available until mid 2022. Which is far too late for this wave.

Mid 2022 is hopefully things will be better as COVID-19 will be under control by then.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Hopefully the Omicron booster trials are fairly quick since it's essentially just an edit of the existing vaccine. If development and authorization take too long then we'll be on to the next variant before anyone gets their shot.

I'm sure Moderna is aware of this and knows that their efforts may be in vain, but that won't stop the conspiracy theorists from continuing with their nonsense.

Re-configuring the mRNA vaccines is a very simple process. They can do it in a matter of days or less (and I assume, they already have). Once you know the exact amino acid sequence of the mutations (which we already know), its a simple matter of reverse-coding the mRNA, popping in a PCR machine, and within hours you've exponentially replicated the key ingredient of the vaccine.

Testing and regulatory approval, though, are the biggest speed bumps. At the absolute fastest, it would probably take 3 months to get the new vaccines tested and approved, although probably longer.

 

[mmascari]

Pfizer has a drug that is 100% effective against death and 95% effective hospitalization. So, if the odds are thr same as with the vaccine, why not let the people decide?

Did you dive deeper in the nuances around those numbers and the sample sizes?

The treatment drugs all have very strict timing windows. If you don't hit the timing exact, opps to bad for you. So, the odds are not the same. Plus that ignores transmission and any other less severe impact.

Prevention is always better than treatment.

We can either keep giving everyone a new shot ecery 6 months or let the medical system give everyone who gets Covid the medicine.

We don't know if it's every 6 months yet or not, we're not going to know for another 6 or 12 months either.

Keep in mind that after 2 years of Covid we still only have 15.4% of the population that has been infected. Again, give 330 million people a shot every 6 months or give 33 million prescriptions a year. In fact we need to do a real study on seniors cocening how often new vaccinations are needed vs how effective post infection treatment is. If they are similar and the cost is less with one of the measures we should use that treatment.

Again, prevention is always better than treatment in healthcare. At least for the patient.

Watch CNBC and Cramer's attacking the pathetic govermental response to Covid19. He and CNBC are reasonable in their coverage unlike CNN, MSNBC and FOX.

Sure, I don't think anyone has said our response was great. Pretty much everyone has said it started off as total crap and hasn't improved nearly enough since then and still has lots of issues. Literally nobody is saying we have the best response, even today.

This should not be a war of people who are pro or anti anything. Vacvines do work but are not perfect. There are risks of anything. Treatments also work and may be better for some. There is no one size fits all solution and never has been. The fighting here is just not productive. I hope no one takes any of the personally because no one is 100% right or wrong.

At this point, there's really only the Pro Prevention and Anti prevention. Perhaps Anti COVID and Pro COVID if you prefer. Your posts today are clearly in the Anti Prevention/Pro COVID point of view.

Since COVID response is a group project, we're stuck with you on the team, but we don't have to like it.

 

[hopemax]

The CDC has been an epic failure on COVID. Their name is Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. With respect to COVID, they have failed at both from day one! At the beginning they couldn't even deliver a COVID test that worked. The CDC has been behind the curve, more so than several other countries, for the entire pandemic. Look at the quality of data and the variant tracking elsewhere and how much better it is.

Going back to this after I had my shower... the other problem... quality of data... Twitter folks have talked about this. It's a by-product of having a private healthcare system. Other countries with a lot of data, and a lot of studies are able to analyze that information because of national reporting requirements and a national system of collection. The US does not have this. We are reliant on data from states. From Medicare (which is problematic because it's all 65+). From Insurance companies (Kaiser is a leader for this). And it all gets collected and reported different, so it's hard to mix and match.

If we want good surveillance, and data collected and analyzed, if we want a national vaccine database, if we want mandates and passports... we need at the minimum a base level system. For that, we need Medicare for All. And I'm sure more than half of you just got your hackles all raised by me typing those words. People are asking for alternate strategies from leadership... we're going to need to put things like that on the table. If not for COVID, for the next pandemic. So when someone says those words, your state leadership can't take them to fund raise about the evils of that s-ism word. But again, in 3 months everyone will be back to acting like it's all a waste of time, money and energy. Individual responsibility!

 

[Heppenheimer]

Watch CNBC and Cramer's attacking the pathetic govermental response to Covid19. He and CNBC are reasonable in their coverage unlike CNN, MSNBC and FOX. This should not be a war of people who are pro or anti anything. Vacvines do work but are not perfect. There are risks of anything. Treatments also work and may be better for some. There is no one size fits all solution and never has been. The fighting here is just not productive. I hope no one takes any of the personally because no one is 100% right or wrong.

Fighting this disease requires multiple levels of defense. But the first line with any communicable disease is prevention, and that only works if nearly everyone who can participates. Meaning, vaccines first and foremost. Otherwise, we'd still be dealing with smallpox and polio.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Watch CNBC and Cramer's attacking the pathetic govermental response to Covid19. He and CNBC are reasonable in their coverage unlike CNN, MSNBC and FOX. This should not be a war of people who are pro or anti anything. Vacvines do work but are not perfect. There are risks of anything. Treatments also work and may be better for some. There is no one size fits all solution and never has been. The fighting here is just not productive. I hope no one takes any of the personally because no one is 100% right or wrong.

The problem with relying solely on treatments after infection is that you have to get infected and get treated early enough for the treatment to be helpful. That means the infected person is already sick, has to miss work, and may have spread the virus to others before realizing that they are sick. Now, the "individual choice" has impacted others. If that happens to workers in a food processing plant then that could result in food shortages - just like the ones we're currently seeing around the country. Some of those foods may not be essential (cream cheese, anyone?) but remember when there were meat processing plants shutting down all over the country because of outbreaks? Have you noticed how the cost of groceries keeps going up while shelves keep having large empty spaces where products used to be? It's been way too long since the grocery stores near me didn't have signs up in multiple aisles apologizing for shortages of various products. The store near me used to sell boneless skinless chicken for $3.99/lb. and run sales for $1.99/lb. Now? The sale price is $3.99/lb. and I haven't seen it for less than $4.99/lb. when not on sale anywhere. So there really is no scenario where getting sick and receiving treatment is superior to getting vaccinated unless you have a legitimate medical reason (allergy) to the vaccines. Any other reason is just a lame anti-vaxxer talking point.

Edit: I didn't realize that part of the chicken would get snagged by the site's censor algorithm, but rest assured I'm referring to the non-wing white meat and not the stuff that some optimists might try to turn into chicken salad.

 

[seascape]

The issue isn't that the young and healthy may not die from getting COVID, but that if they do have it, are asymptomatic, they can pass it along to someone who is at a much bigger risk of dying from it. If the young people get vaccinated and then boosted, the chances that they catch COVID are lessened, and then it lessens the chance that they pass it to someone else. I'm not sure why people don't understand this simple point.

No according to the Federal Government, the vaccines do not prevent you or anyone from catching Covid19 and passing it along. The effectivess is only 6 months and yet, they also say anyone with just 2 shots are fully vaccinated even if they got their second shot in February. No one actually knows the truth. The only thing that is not debatable is that the older you are the more likely you are to benefit from the vaccine. I cant figure out why anyone over 50 wouldnt take the shot, unless they were told by their doctor not to. People should read the Economist article, https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mortality-risk-estimator, that is basec on numbers from ocer a year ago. Keep in mind treatment of Covid19 has increased significantly since then and that the odds of death and hospiralization have decreased.

 

[DisneyFan32]

No according to the Federal Government, the vaccines do not prevent you or anyone from catching Covid19 and passing it along. The effectivess is only 6 months and yet, they also say anyone with just 2 shots are fully vaccinated even if they got their second shot in February. No one actually knows the truth. The only thing that is not debatable is that the older you are the more likely you are to benefit from the vaccine. I cant figure out why anyone over 50 wouldnt take the shot, unless they were told by their doctor not to. People should read the Economist article, https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mortality-risk-estimator, that is basec on numbers from ocer a year ago. Keep in mind treatment of Covid19 has increased significantly since then and that the odds of death and hospiralization have decreased.

So I don't need another booster shot after six months (since October 2021). I might to wait until Fall 2022? Why COVID-19 pandemic would ending soon and mask mandate will be gone for good.

 

[mmascari]

The CDC has been an epic failure on COVID. Their name is Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. With respect to COVID, they have failed at both from day one! At the beginning they couldn't even deliver a COVID test that worked. The CDC has been behind the curve, more so than several other countries, for the entire pandemic. Look at the quality of data and the variant tracking elsewhere and how much better it is.

Before somebody says that it was because of who was in power when the pandemic started, the overwhelming majority of people at the CDC are career people, not political appointees.

The CDC clearly screwed up early on. But don't just discount that not enough of them are political appointees for that to matter. Those appointees were in charge and gutted the agency along with some micro managing for political reasons.

They haven't rebounded and they are still not great. It's unclear if that's because rebuilding is harder than breaking or if the newer appointees setting direction are still not doing a good job.

CDC gets neglected a lot too most of the time, they didn't really have the depth to deal with even slight hiccups in management. By comparison, the FDA has navigated political whims in different directions better. Still not great, including still today.

It's like I tell my kid with grades, it's easy to dig a hole with even one 0% or a few 50% grades. It drags your overall grade down super fast. It's really hard to raise it back up, since the best you can do is 100%. For the CDC/FDA, even if they were hitting 100% on everything today, they would still be digging out of a huge hole, and they're still not hitting that.

They were supposed to be preparing for something like this for decades but we get better information about variants from South Africa. I'd imagine that their equivalent agency doesn't have 1/10 the budget of the CDC.

I wouldn't be surprised if the South Africa budget for sequencing and variant detection was larger per capita than the CDC one. It's never really been a priority here, and we don't fund stuff that isn't a priority. While in South Africa it was a huge part of the AIDS response. That made it both a priority and instrumental in prior disease response in South Africa. A combination that makes you good at something.

No, not 100%. Some of the problem is people not getting vaccinated. Under 30% of the eligible population is not vaccinated. That isn't anywhere near 100% of the probelm.

Maybe not 100%, but the unvaccinated providing a fertile ground for community transmission is definitely a driving force and it's going to be the largest single item.

It's an exponential curve, 30% is more than enough to not get past the point the curve shifts. It sucks that we needed 80%-85% and now probably 90%-95% to get the curve to bend. But, that's just the way it works. Either we get past the point where it has impact or we don't. There's no second place trophy for just getting close.

 

[fgmnt]

Going back to this after I had my shower... the other problem... quality of data... Twitter folks have talked about this. It's a by-product of having a private healthcare system. Other countries with a lot of data, and a lot of studies are able to analyze that information because of national reporting requirements and a national system of collection. The US does not have this. We are reliant on data from states. From Medicare (which is problematic because it's all 65+). From Insurance companies (Kaiser is a leader for this). And it all gets collected and reported different, so it's hard to mix and match.

If we want good surveillance, and data collected and analyzed, if we want a national vaccine database, if we want mandates and passports... we need at the minimum a base level system. For that, we need Medicare for All. And I'm sure more than half of you just got your hackles all raised by me typing those words. People are asking for alternate strategies from leadership... we're going to need to put things like that on the table. If not for COVID, for the next pandemic. So when someone says those words, your state leadership can't take them to fund raise about the evils of that s-ism word. But again, in 3 months everyone will be back to acting like it's all a waste of time, money and energy. Individual responsibility!

This is the most significant crisis this country has faced since the Great Depression, if not the American Civil War. Both of those events required domestic leadership with a clarity of the stakes at hand and convictions of their beliefs and actions. We have been rudderless in this regard my entire life.

The CDC failed because it expected too much of the American people. There is no widely held belief in the power of collective action and social programs that helped this country win world war 2 and expand postwar prosperity. Now it's all about divorcing yourself entirely from any kind of obligation a degree away from yourself.

 

[mmascari]

Some of those foods may not be essential (cream cheese, anyone?)

Those are fighting words!

 

[LuvtheGoof]

No according to the Federal Government, the vaccines do not prevent you or anyone from catching Covid19 and passing it along. The effectivess is only 6 months and yet, they also say anyone with just 2 shots are fully vaccinated even if they got their second shot in February. No one actually knows the truth. The only thing that is not debatable is that the older you are the more likely you are to benefit from the vaccine. I cant figure out why anyone over 50 wouldnt take the shot, unless they were told by their doctor not to. People should read the Economist article, https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mortality-risk-estimator, that is basec on numbers from ocer a year ago. Keep in mind treatment of Covid19 has increased significantly since then and that the odds of death and hospiralization have decreased.

Read what I said. It LESSENS the chances, not eliminates. Are you really going to keep spouting this nonsense?

 

[correcaminos]

Watch CNBC and Cramer's attacking the pathetic govermental response to Covid19. He and CNBC are reasonable in their coverage unlike CNN, MSNBC and FOX. This should not be a war of people who are pro or anti anything. Vacvines do work but are not perfect. There are risks of anything. Treatments also work and may be better for some. There is no one size fits all solution and never has been. The fighting here is just not productive. I hope no one takes any of the personally because no one is 100% right or wrong.

Treatments should be for those who need it yes. Vaccines need to be for all at this point. There is no middle ground. The only exceptions are far and few. Outside of a legit medical issue - which is very rare - one should be vaccinated if 5+. Period.

 

[Ayla]

The highest single day number of cases reported in the US was 300,777. Yesterday the US reported 298,761 cases. As a result, it looks like when today's numbers come out we will set the record for the most cases ever. Further think of this the highest 7 day average reported in the US was 251,232. We will blow that away in just a few days. Why? We were supposed to have a CDC that knew what to do and would beat Covid19. No, we have a CDC that doesn't know how to treat and solve this problem or follow science since they say they didn't see this problem coming, or atleast they didn't tell the President because the Whitehouse said they didn't know. What will Biden tell us today that he couldnt have told us Saturday? Why the delay of 4 days? On Saturday everyone knew NY had doubled its cases in just 3 days.

LOL The CDC is *not* the problem.

 

[correcaminos]

No according to the Federal Government, the vaccines do not prevent you or anyone from catching Covid19 and passing it along. The effectivess is only 6 months and yet, they also say anyone with just 2 shots are fully vaccinated even if they got their second shot in February. No one actually knows the truth. The only thing that is not debatable is that the older you are the more likely you are to benefit from the vaccine. I cant figure out why anyone over 50 wouldnt take the shot, unless they were told by their doctor not to. People should read the Economist article, https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mortality-risk-estimator, that is basec on numbers from ocer a year ago. Keep in mind treatment of Covid19 has increased significantly since then and that the odds of death and hospiralization have decreased.

My risk of death is miniscule. My risk of hospitalization is small. I'm 44. I have friends who are my age and health (zero health issues) who struggle going near 2 years now. There's more than hospitalizations to worry about. What did I do? I joined the trial (admittedly my very low risk allowed me to join with less worries) and spent hours and hours helping loved ones and strangers of all ages to get vaccinated once emergency approval came in. That's what responsible people should do. Not peddle your "facts" to downplay the issues at hand.

 

[mmascari]

No according to the Federal Government, the vaccines do not prevent you or anyone from catching Covid19 and passing it along. The effectivess is only 6 months and yet, they also say anyone with just 2 shots are fully vaccinated even if they got their second shot in February.

Keep going with the anti-vax talking points.

This is a willful twisting of a fact. It's up there with "Stephen Curry and I can both make 3 point shots. I might as well be on the team instead of him."

No one actually knows the truth.

Also wrong. You just don't like it.

Keep in mind treatment of Covid19 has increased significantly since then and that the odds of death and hospiralization have decreased.

There is no treatment that provides as robust protection as getting vaccinated does.

 

[danlb_2000]

The people who attack others here are those who insist everyone take the vaccine. Again, I wish those who attacked my posts would read all of them. I am vacvinated. I encouraged everyone to get vaccinated. However, look at all those college students in their late teens and early 20's. They dont trust the mandates and they look at the numbers. The risk of death in minimal for healthy young people. That is a fact. The numbers dont lie. So, if you know the odds of death from Covid19 for a healthy person with nounderlying condition is much less than 1 in a thousand or less if you even get it. Is it worth taking the shot? Remember, there were serious side effects from the shot so its not risk free. What is wrong with letting educated people from making their own decissions and not attacking them?

My wife and I both made the educated decission to take all 3 shots and we are Republicans. Every Republican I know has taken all 3 shots or like my brother who has a serious heart problem and was told not to take it. For those who dont trust the US Government and the medical policies of the Government look at test run on minorities by FDR in 1932. It continued until 1972. Is it reasonable for people to be concerned over anything the government does? Yes, there are many examples of massive government abuse. However, even with that fact, because I know many who worked on vaccines, I trust the private sector and their benefits. Again, I think every adult over 50 should take the vaccine and the 3rd shot but let everyone else decide for themselves based on the actual.science. Plus keep in mind that the government says the vaccines dont provide protection for even 1 year. In fact they say you need to take the 3rd shot in just 6 months after the second.

As for the future, from now on I will be taking an antibody test every 3 to 4 months to see my level of protection and as long as I have protection, I will not take another shot. But, if my protection from recovering from Covid19, November 2020, and my 3 shots fails , I will take a 4th shot. The US Government and all State Governments are testing the wrong thing. We don't need to test everyone for Covid19, we need to test everyone for antibodies and protect those without them. We are doing this backwards, just like most things the government does. Find out who needs protection and protect them.

Antibody tests don't have much value when it comes to assessing protection, since we don't have a good handle yet on what level is needed to give you protection.

 

[mattpeto]

Not trying to make light of covid, so many people's lives that will never be the same.

But it just feels time to plow forward now...

I think it's inevitable that every human will get this virus. And by the time it gets to some of us, hopefully it's what omnicron variant is showing to be (yes, so far...) - it's a mild and it's similar to a common cold. (See USA Today article today)

If you aren't vaccinated or recovered from a previous infection, you are more of just a higher risk taker. I don't buy that you are endangering anyone else at this point, the protecting measures are out there for the masses.

Why should we move forward? Because humans have done so far forever. We need to interact with each other.

If you are anxious about it, I understand it completely. Get the vaccine, get a booster, wear a mask, social distance, stay outside. Or do some of that or none of it, do what you feel is right.

If the virus takes another turn where it's more deadly, we can revisit.

But if you want to plow forward, it's time...

 

[JoeCamel]

Not trying to make light of covid, so many people's lives that will never be the same.

But it just feels time to plow forward now...

I think it's inevitable that every human will get this virus. And by the time it gets to some of us, hopefully it's what omnicron variant is showing to be (yes, so far...) - it's a mild and it's similar to a common cold. (See USA Today article today)

If you aren't vaccinated or recovered from a previous infection, you are more of just a higher risk taker. I don't buy that you are endangering anyone else at this point, the protecting measures are out there for the masses.

Why should we move forward? Because humans have done so far forever. We need to interact with each other.

If you are anxious about it, I understand it completely. Get the vaccine, get a booster, wear a mask, social distance, stay outside. Or do some of that or none of it, do what you feel is right.

If the virus takes another turn where it's more deadly, we can revisit.

But if you want to plow forward, it's time...

Sigh, none of that is true as you are ignoring that each infection gives Covid a chance to mutate into something more deadly and less able to be mitigated with the vaccine. We dodged a bullet with Omicron being milder (jury is still out but it looks like it is set to hurt the healthcare system more than Delta has due to shear numbers) but the next or the next may not be. You make an assumption that everyone will get it, not true but if no one does anything it probably is.