Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mmascari]

If vaccination results in less hospitalization and death and omicron results in less hospitalization and death, should we not all go out and get omicron

I don't think we have solid statistics that Omicron does result in less hospitalization and death. We think it may individually, but that it infects so many more that the total will be just as bad.

But, let's pretend Omicron definitely results in less hospitalization and death than Delta. That's not what you asked. You're asking if Omicron results in less hospitalization and death than any of the COVID vaccines. That is 100% false. Any of the FDA authorized vaccines 100% definitely results in less hospitalization and death than an Omicron infection.

Still, let's pretend just for a second in a fantasy suspension of belief that they were the same. The next question would be, are the other impacts that are not hospitalization and death lower from Omicron than vaccination? We have reams of data submitted to the FDA and used to approve the vaccines that shows they're safe. Can we point to any Omicron study that says it's other impacts are as unlikely?

So, even if Omicron results in less hospitalization and death than Delta and we ignore any other lessor impact of Omicron vs Delta, that's still the wrong question. You're asking if Omicron results in less hospitalization, death, and other lessor impacts than any of the vaccines. We can say with 100% confidence this is wrong. We can point to huge quantities of data showing the chance of vaccine impact are many orders of magnitude lower than even the most hopeful anecdotes of Omicron infection.

Clearly, everyone should go out and get vaccinated. The full course including booster.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

It's been announced that the first confirmed Omicron death in the US was an unvaccinated man from Texas who had previously been infected with COVID-19.

First confirmed US death related to Omicron variant was unvaccinated and had been infected before

Health experts are urging people to get vaccinated as the Delta and Omicron coronavirus variants spread across the globe. Follow here for the latest news updates.

www.cnn.com

 

[dreday3]

Apparently Chicago mayor making announcement today...the rumor is starting Jan 1 all employees and patrons of businesses in Chicago (restaurants, gyms, theatres, etc.) will have to be vaccinated or proof of negative test (for employees I think) to be able to enter business.

Now how many businesses will actually comply with that is a different story.

 

[DisneyFan32]

Hopefully the Omicron booster trials are fairly quick since it's essentially just an edit of the existing vaccine. If development and authorization take too long then we'll be on to the next variant before anyone gets their shot.

I'm sure Moderna is aware of this and knows that their efforts may be in vain, but that won't stop the conspiracy theorists from continuing with their nonsense.

If Omicron booster trials are fairly quick as the booster is coming early next year by Spring 2022/Summer 2022. There will be most likely next Winter wave will be minimize by then. By the way, is federal mask mandate for trains, buses and planes is finally gonna ending next year?

 

[Touchdown]

The vaccines to date have been surprisingly efficient in protecting us from the varient. It unfortunately appears that in order to have about the same protection with omercron you now need a booster. Without it you will likely contract the virus with mild symptoms, but become a vector to infect other people.

This virus appears to not be any less virulent or more virulent then delta in Europe. The population most similar to here. It will cause the same level of disease and death. If more people get it (a given because it’s more infectious and more vaccinated escape of symptomatic disease) then we are going to see higher hospitalizations and death, particularly when hospitals get overrun (again sadly a given, my hospital has been at capacity now for over 3 weeks.)

Finally, Covid treatments are not as flexible. Monoclonal antibodies are very brittle, it’s in the name mono (meaning one) clonal (meaning many copies) unlike a vaccine or prior immunity these cocktails consist of only a few specific antibodies (3-4) if a varient mutates the right sequence they will not work because they won’t attach to the infected cell. Our current supply may not be effective. That will mean a period of adjustment while we make a new cocktail. Limiting our already dwindling supply further. Pfizer’s pill is just getting into production and won’t be able to meet demand until mid 2022. In short our treatment arm is going to be in short supply due to this varient hitting the whole country all at once, causing more death and hospitalizations.

This is all going to transpire in the next month. Omercron is now the dominant strain. The clock is chiming midnight, your best and only protection is to be vaccinated and boosted. I would recommend doing so immediately. Until you are fully vaccinated (2 weeks after shot 2, the J&J shot is no longer preferred) or boosted (2 weeks post boost.). You need to act like it’s March 2020 again to avoid this virus. While not studied the hope is that the two course vaccine at least temporarily protects you from omercron but that is an assumption on my part.

In short, the vaccine is our only hope. I know I am unlikely to sway any recalcitrant anti Covid vaxxers but I do hope I can sway those of you who are vaccinated to get boosted. Who wants to get sick? I know you might think, I really don’t care if I infect people who chose not to protect themselves and I get that. However, if enough of us vaccinated people get sick at the same time then non essential businesses will likely close due to lack of unstick staff and essential business will struggle to stay open. Resulting in March 2020 conditions for all. Get boosted ASAP please, and everyone wear you masks indoors, at least for the next month.

 

[Lilofan]

Apparently Chicago mayor making announcement today...the rumor is starting Jan 1 all employees and patrons of businesses in Chicago (restaurants, gyms, theatres, etc.) will have to be vaccinated or proof of negative test (for employees I think) to be able to enter business.

Now how many businesses will actually comply with that is a different story.

Following in NYC footsteps , no vaccine, no service . Good!

 

[hopemax]

The CDC has been an epic failure on COVID. Their name is Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. With respect to COVID, they have failed at both from day one! At the beginning they couldn't even deliver a COVID test that worked. The CDC has been behind the curve, more so than several other countries, for the entire pandemic. Look at the quality of data and the variant tracking elsewhere and how much better it is.

Before somebody says that it was because of who was in power when the pandemic started, the overwhelming majority of people at the CDC are career people, not political appointees. They were supposed to be preparing for something like this for decades but we get better information about variants from South Africa. I'd imagine that their equivalent agency doesn't have 1/10 the budget of the CDC.

When COVID started all of the health agencies said long term budget cuts have affected their ability to plan for theoreticals because they needed to spend the money on current, existing diseases. All these Covid spending bills have had additional funding, that always gets whittled down because people keep screaming it all costs too much. Until that thinking changes, we will continue to be chasing our own tails. No one wants to spend money on things they can’t imagine are necessary. They are too eager to dismiss potential expensive concerns as some hysterical, academic scaredy-cat. Like everyone felt about Covid a month ago.

In my hometown, the fight used to be about snowplows. When the county had 2, everyone complained why we were paying for these plows we never used. Then they sold them, a few years later… big snowstorm and everyone wanted to know why there were no plows. People have to be willing to fund something that seems unnecessary.

 

[DisneyCane]

It's been announced that the first confirmed Omicron death in the US was an unvaccinated man from Texas who had previously been infected with COVID-19.

First confirmed US death related to Omicron variant was unvaccinated and had been infected before

Health experts are urging people to get vaccinated as the Delta and Omicron coronavirus variants spread across the globe. Follow here for the latest news updates.

www.cnn.com

Confirmed being the operative word. There isn't nearly enough sequencing to know if he was the first. Anyone who has underlying conditions and doesn't get vaccinated is not very intelligent.

 

[seascape]

The people who attack others here are those who insist everyone take the vaccine. Again, I wish those who attacked my posts would read all of them. I am vacvinated. I encouraged everyone to get vaccinated. However, look at all those college students in their late teens and early 20's. They dont trust the mandates and they look at the numbers. The risk of death in minimal for healthy young people. That is a fact. The numbers dont lie. So, if you know the odds of death from Covid19 for a healthy person with nounderlying condition is much less than 1 in a thousand or less if you even get it. Is it worth taking the shot? Remember, there were serious side effects from the shot so its not risk free. What is wrong with letting educated people from making their own decissions and not attacking them?

Again, I think every adult over 50 should take the vaccine and the 3rd shot but let everyone else decide for themselves based on the actual.science. Plus keep in mind that the government says the vaccines dont provide protection for even 1 year. In fact they say you need to take the 3rd shot in just 6 months after the second.

As for the future, from now on I will be taking an antibody test every 3 to 4 months to see my level of protection and as long as I have protection, I will not take another shot. But, if my protection from recovering from Covid19, November 2020, and my 3 shots fails , I will take a 4th shot. The US Government and all State Governments are testing the wrong thing. We don't need to test everyone for Covid19, we need to test everyone for antibodies and protect those without them. We are doing this backwards, just like most things the government does. Find out who needs protection and protect them.

 

[DisneyCane]

Something else no one is going to like… already predictions we will need Fall 2022 boosters and we are going to be facing another round next winter. So plan your holidays accordingly. I wouldn’t be planning on international cruises or flights next year either.

In other words, COVID isn't going away anytime soon.

 

[dreday3]

The people who attack others here are those who insist everyone take the vaccine. Again, I wish those who attacked my posts would read all of them. I am vacvinated. I encouraged everyone to get vaccinated. However, look at all those college students in their late teens and early 20's. They dont trust the mandates and they look at the numbers. The risk of death in minimal for healthy young people. That is a fact. The numbers dont lie. So, if you know the odds of death from Covid19 for a healthy person with nounderlying condition is much less than 1 in a thousand or less if you even get it. Is it worth taking the shot? Remember, there were serious side effects from the shot so its not risk free. What is wrong with letting educated people from making their own decissions and not attacking them?

Yeah, nope.

Unless you have some kind of medical condition preventing you from getting vaccinated - choosing not to get vaccinated is a moronic decision.

Done with pretending unvaccinated by choice have any semblance of intelligence. Done.

 

[mmascari]

61% of the entire US population is vaccinated.

That's not enough. Not even close to tipping the inflection point where the curve shifts. 61% wasn't enough for Alpha, not enough for Delta and no where near enough for Omicron.

I see no reason for those under 30 to take the shot. The unknown risks of the vaccine are higher than the known risk of Covid19, with the exception of those with underlying conditions.

This is 100% false.

To believe that, you would need to think the FDA safety process is a joke.

 

[seascape]

Yeah, nope.

Unless you have some kind of medical condition preventing you from getting vaccinated - choosing not to get vaccinated is a moronic decision.

Done with pretending unvaccinated by choice have any semblance of intelligence. Done.

Pfizer has a drug that is 100% effective against death and 95% effective hospitalization. So, if the odds are thr same as with the vaccine, why not let the people decide? We can either keep giving everyone a new shot ecery 6 months or let the medical system give everyone who gets Covid the medicine. Keep in mind that after 2 years of Covid we still only have 15.4% of the population that has been infected. Again, give 330 million people a shot every 6 months or give 33 million prescriptions a year. In fact we need to do a real study on seniors cocening how often new vaccinations are needed vs how effective post infection treatment is. If they are similar and the cost is less with one of the measures we should use that treatment.

 

[LittleBuford]

The risk of death in minimal for healthy young people. That is a fact. The numbers dont lie. So, if you know the odds of death from Covid19 for a healthy person with nounderlying condition is much less than 1 in a thousand or less if you even get it. Is it worth taking the shot? Remember, there were serious side effects from the shot so its not risk free.

As you yourself said, the numbers don’t lie. The risks associated with the vaccine are a tiny fraction of those associated with COVID, for all age groups.

 

[DisneyFan32]

Something else no one is going to like… already predictions we will need Fall 2022 boosters and we are going to be facing another round next winter. So plan your holidays accordingly. I wouldn’t be planning on international cruises or flights next year either.

I'm scared for next year, 2023 and 2024. The pandemic may go longer as mask mandate will BE more LONGER. NOOOO!
I wonder mask mandate for trains will be ending soon.

 

[Touchdown]

Pfizer has a drug that is 100% effective against death and 95% effective hospitalization. So, if the odds are thr same as with the vaccine, why not let the people decide? We can either keep giving everyone a new shot ecery 6 months or let the medical system give everyone who gets Covid the medicine. Keep in mind that after 2 years of Covid we still only have 15.4% of the population that has been infected. Again, give 330 million people a shot every 6 months or give 33 million prescriptions a year. In fact we need to do a real study on seniors cocening how often new vaccinations are needed vs how effective post infection treatment is. If they are similar and the cost is less with one of the measures we should use that treatment.

This drug will not be widely available until mid 2022. Which is far too late for this wave.

 

[mmascari]

The people who attack others here are those who insist everyone take the vaccine. Again, I wish those who attacked my posts would read all of them. I am vacvinated. I encouraged everyone to get vaccinated. However, look at all those college students in their late teens and early 20's. They dont trust the mandates and they look at the numbers. The risk of death in minimal for healthy young people. That is a fact. The numbers dont lie. So, if you know the odds of death from Covid19 for a healthy person with nounderlying condition is much less than 1 in a thousand or less if you even get it. Is it worth taking the shot? Remember, there were serious side effects from the shot so its not risk free. What is wrong with letting educated people from making their own decissions and not attacking them?

If that's educated, they need more math study. The risk of complications from vaccination is many orders of magnitude lower than the risk of complications from COVID. Trying to equate them is a lie. It's not an attack. You're making a factually incorrect statement and it's being pointed out. You've continued to make it.

If I posted that the best way to ride 7DMT was to show up 5 minutes before park close, without a Magic Kingdom ticket, I'm sure people would point out that this was incorrect.

If people want to make their own decisions, that's fine. But, make it based on actual facts and then live with the consequences of that decision. Own it. Which, in this case means recognizing that the vaccine is not as risky as catching COVID, that by not taking it you are helping to keep spread around, and that you'll be marginalized and excluded from more and more of society as time passes.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

The people who attack others here are those who insist everyone take the vaccine. Again, I wish those who attacked my posts would read all of them. I am vacvinated. I encouraged everyone to get vaccinated. However, look at all those college students in their late teens and early 20's. They dont trust the mandates and they look at the numbers. The risk of death in minimal for healthy young people. That is a fact. The numbers dont lie. So, if you know the odds of death from Covid19 for a healthy person with nounderlying condition is much less than 1 in a thousand or less if you even get it. Is it worth taking the shot? Remember, there were serious side effects from the shot so its not risk free. What is wrong with letting educated people from making their own decissions and not attacking them?

The issue isn't that the young and healthy may not die from getting COVID, but that if they do have it, are asymptomatic, they can pass it along to someone who is at a much bigger risk of dying from it. If the young people get vaccinated and then boosted, the chances that they catch COVID are lessened, and then it lessens the chance that they pass it to someone else. I'm not sure why people don't understand this simple point.

 

[seascape]

Watch CNBC and Cramer's attacking the pathetic govermental response to Covid19. He and CNBC are reasonable in their coverage unlike CNN, MSNBC and FOX. This should not be a war of people who are pro or anti anything. Vacvines do work but are not perfect. There are risks of anything. Treatments also work and may be better for some. There is no one size fits all solution and never has been. The fighting here is just not productive. I hope no one takes any of the personally because no one is 100% right or wrong.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

The people who attack others here are those who insist everyone take the vaccine. Again, I wish those who attacked my posts would read all of them. I am vacvinated. I encouraged everyone to get vaccinated. However, look at all those college students in their late teens and early 20's. They dont trust the mandates and they look at the numbers. The risk of death in minimal for healthy young people. That is a fact. The numbers dont lie. So, if you know the odds of death from Covid19 for a healthy person with nounderlying condition is much less than 1 in a thousand or less if you even get it. Is it worth taking the shot? Remember, there were serious side effects from the shot so its not risk free. What is wrong with letting educated people from making their own decissions and not attacking them?

My wife and I both made the educated decission to take all 3 shots and we are Republicans. Every Republican I know has taken all 3 shots or like my brother who has a serious heart problem and was told not to take it. For those who dont trust the US Government and the medical policies of the Government look at test run on minorities by FDR in 1932. It continued until 1972. Is it reasonable for people to be concerned over anything the government does? Yes, there are many examples of massive government abuse. However, even with that fact, because I know many who worked on vaccines, I trust the private sector and their benefits. Again, I think every adult over 50 should take the vaccine and the 3rd shot but let everyone else decide for themselves based on the actual.science. Plus keep in mind that the government says the vaccines dont provide protection for even 1 year. In fact they say you need to take the 3rd shot in just 6 months after the second.

As for the future, from now on I will be taking an antibody test every 3 to 4 months to see my level of protection and as long as I have protection, I will not take another shot. But, if my protection from recovering from Covid19, November 2020, and my 3 shots fails , I will take a 4th shot. The US Government and all State Governments are testing the wrong thing. We don't need to test everyone for Covid19, we need to test everyone for antibodies and protect those without them. We are doing this backwards, just like most things the government does. Find out who needs protection and protect them.

College students may be in the process of getting educated, but that does not make them experts by any stretch - it doesn't even prevent them from being young and stupid despite their ongoing education. There's also the inconvenient fact that the unvaccinated like to overlook that they have a greater chance of catching the virus, which means they are also more likely to spread it. The more it spreads, the greater the chance that it will spread to someone who is vaccinated but did not have as strong of an immune response to the vaccine for some reason (like an immune deficiency caused by an illness or medication). It also increases the number of people hospitalized, which puts a strain on the healthcare system in general and, therefore, impacts many more people than just that individual.

Even if they don't die, that doesn't mean that it's going to be a walk in the park. An old childhood friend of mine who I've mentioned before as having travelled deep down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole recently caught the virus and wound up in the hospital for a week with pneumonia from COVID-19. His blood oxygen was dangerously low and had his wife not been a nurse and known what signs to check for it is very possible that he would have died at home in his bed, too stubborn to seek help. She got him to the hospital and he got a 5-day course of remdesivir - and he's still pushing COVID-19 conspiracy theories after his release. He went to college, but would you consider his actions those of an educated person?