Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[jlhwdw]

Weelll... you're entitled to an answer to that. I may not have been clear.
I meant to associate...
[1] an attraction that brings in 20 million people per year...
[2] with crowded theme parks with a resperatory disease which is spread within crowds.

Airlines, hotels, restaurants, and bars are associated with COVID-19 as well. You and everyone else are entitled to take whatever risks you wish. The unfortunate truth is as we gamble with public health, third parties (relatives, friends, store clerks, etc.) share in that gamble. If we lose our gamble, we carry the virus and the pandemic continues. It seems we could be headed for a death toll of over 1,000,000. No one wants that, but too many people are unwilling to give up a beer at the bar, or a magical day in a theme park to put a stop to it.

Do you think it is feasible to think things like WDW and restaurants should still be closed from the March 2020 closure? Or should they re-close? Or would it all be over if they had stayed closed longer?

 

[mellyf]

That's impressively stubborn.

I would say they've done everything nice possible.

There's stuff that's less nice they could do.

My company is planning to follow the OSHA guidelines starting in January sometime. Weekly testing for anyone not vaccinated. We don't have any details on how that's actually going to work yet. My hope is that the testing process is enough of an inconvenience that it simply encourages more people to vaccinate. All of the peers I typically work with are vaccinated anyway, the others I don't know. HR knows though.

I wish I could say that had worked in my school district. Obviously, I don't have personal knowledge of every school in our district, but at my building, the same ones who were getting tested when the requirement started a few months ago are still getting tested. It actually seems like they're digging in.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

It means it's not enough, not that it's not working.

NY still only has 71% of population fully vaccinated. Nowhere near enough to get past the inflection point where cases drop for Delta and definitely not for Omicron. Delta probably needed over 80% or 85%, Omicron may need 90% or 95%. Apparently those vaccine passports and mandatory vaccines haven't had enough impact yet.

Updated COVID-19 Vaccination Data

Updated COVID-19 vaccination rates by county

coronavirus.health.ny.gov

Good news for those vaccinated, at least for Delta, it's still working wonderfully. This chart really needs some recent data added in. Until we get that extra data, harder to say about Omicron.

COVID-19 Breakthrough Data

Cases and hospitalizations by vaccination status

coronavirus.health.ny.gov

The bad news, Delta is still going strong and now Omicron appears to be joining not displacing it. And with a speed, 13.1% in the second chart vs 2% the week prior.

Clinical Variant Data

Variant prevalence across time

coronavirus.health.ny.gov

Also, vaccine passports can reduce spread but can't keep people from gathering at each other's homes. The truly ignorant ones who still think it's no big deal and have been "over it" since March 2020 will continue to ignore any rules they find unjust (i.e.,all of them). So while vaccine passports can't eliminate the spread, they can reduce the spread and limit who spreads it where.

 

[cm1988]

Do you think it is feasible to think things like WDW and restaurants should still be closed from the March 2020 closure? Or should they re-close? Or would it all be over if they had stayed closed longer?

It should never had been a business decision. If the pandemic had been skillfully managed by political leaders, it would have had one surge, not six. We would be riding rides and getting Mickey’s autograph in a safe environment.

But of course that is not the case, here or overseas. So, if we can’t depend on our leaders, we have to be responsible ourselves. Maybe you’ve heard the doctors, nurses, and dying patients begging us to get vaccinated and wear masks. Maybe you’ve heard that getting into crowds and dining at restaurants and bars is risky to you and to your fellow humans.

We rightly make heroes of people who die in wars to protect our freedom. Now we can also make heros of those who die in hospitals because we claimed our freedom to visit theme parks.

WDW never could stop the 800,000-and-counting deaths. You can. I can. We have to live differently for a while, then this thing goes away, and nobody has to die for our fun.

 

[Kman]

Nonsense. Cornell has 99% of its students vaccinated and it has a strict mask mandate. Over 1200 students contracted Covid forcing the school to go to remote learning.

Just accept the fact that masks don’t work and the vaccines don’t stop transmission.

Yup...keep resisting. The US has been out of control with infections since March 2020 with more infections than the vast majority. It's resulted in over 800k RECORDED deaths and counting. Great job! Obviously vaccines and masking are not the complete answer right now but the dumb attitude displayed by many in the States has had devastating results.

 

[Bullseye1967]

It means it's not enough, not that it's not working.

NY still only has 71% of population fully vaccinated. Nowhere near enough to get past the inflection point where cases drop for Delta and definitely not for Omicron. Delta probably needed over 80% or 85%, Omicron may need 90% or 95%. Apparently those vaccine passports and mandatory vaccines haven't had enough impact yet.

Updated COVID-19 Vaccination Data

Updated COVID-19 vaccination rates by county

coronavirus.health.ny.gov

Good news for those vaccinated, at least for Delta, it's still working wonderfully. This chart really needs some recent data added in. Until we get that extra data, harder to say about Omicron.

COVID-19 Breakthrough Data

Cases and hospitalizations by vaccination status

coronavirus.health.ny.gov

The bad news, Delta is still going strong and now Omicron appears to be joining not displacing it. And with a speed, 13.1% in the second chart vs 2% the week prior.

Clinical Variant Data

Variant prevalence across time

coronavirus.health.ny.gov

Actually it is displacing it. Look at the percentage of omicron this week versus last week.

Omicron variant accounts for 73 percent of new Covid cases in U.S.

The first omicron-related death in the United States was reported Monday in Texas.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[DisneyCane]

It should never had been a business decision. If the pandemic had been skillfully managed by political leaders, it would have had one surge, not six. We would be riding rides and getting Mickey’s autograph in a safe environment.

The bolded is 100% not true. People complain about misinformation. What you said is misinformation.

This virus spreads pre-symptomatically or asymptomatically through the air and is highly contagious (more so for the recent variants). No matter what policies would have been implemented, they would not have led to eradication of SARS-CoV-2 and therefore there would always have been multiple surges.

There isn't one place on earth that has managed to only have one surge no matter what polices they implemented.

 

[DisneyCane]

Actually it is displacing it. Look at the percentage of omicron this week versus last week.

We'll have to see. For example, in FL, the daily cases were pretty low with Delta representing almost all of them. Omicron hit and there was a huge increase. Omicron is displacing Delta by percentage but in raw numbers Delta might stay the same as it was.

 

[Bullseye1967]

My sister just told me here hospital has 60 cases and most were vaccinated and/or boosted. These are mostly not admitted for Covid-19, but discovered they had it when they were admitted for something else. Only one in ICU and none on a vent. Omicron is not going to be just the unvaccinated.

 

[cm1988]

The bolded is 100% not true. People complain about misinformation. What you said is misinformation.

This virus spreads pre-symptomatically or asymptomatically through the air and is highly contagious (more so for the recent variants). No matter what policies would have been implemented, they would not have led to eradication of SARS-CoV-2 and therefore there would always have been multiple surges.

There isn't one place on earth that has managed to only have one surge no matter what polices they implemented.

I agree that the virus is primarily spread by respiratory droplets. I agree that no country skillfully controlled the pandemic, limiting it to one surge. We live in that failure. The best we can do now is get vaccinated and boosted, wear a mask, avoid crowds, etc., etc. The science is true. If we had followed the science we (and many other countries) would not have relied on phased reopening and the virus would have had nowhere to go. Instead we preserved our fun and preserved the way we conduct commerce, and we got six-and-still-counting surges.

 

[DisneyCane]

I agree that the virus is primarily spread by respiratory droplets. I agree that no country skillfully controlled the pandemic, limiting it to one surge. We live in that failure. The best we can do now is get vaccinated and boosted, wear a mask, avoid crowds, etc., etc. The science is true. If we had followed the science we (and many other countries) would not have relied on phased reopening and the virus would have had nowhere to go. Instead we preserved our fun and preserved the way we conduct commerce, and we got six-and-still-counting surges.

There are animal reservoirs. It was impossible to have a true lockdown without mass starvation. These combined made it impossible to have only one surge due to the nature of the virus.

 

[GuyFawkes]

How about this? If you are old or have massive health problems it's up to you to stay away from everyone because the young and most anyone else is not dying. My father is in his 80's just had a friend who was 87 die of Co-vid. He was double vaccinated and had a booster, it was simply his time to die. In my fathers age group that is what is happening and they account for most of the deaths. Sorry but old age can't be cured. You will die, just a matter of what gets you. If the old want to live they need to hide, the question then is it worth to hide away from everyone?

This has gone on too long because people think we will out smart the virus. Fact is this. If you don't vaccinate the rest of the world there will constantly be new variations until the virus dies out on it's own. As far as the US it's racist to stop anyone from coming to the US so whatever is loose in the world disease wise will come here.

 

[Lilofan]

Desert to Florida? You will mold into the ground
Or mould if you prefer

Going through hurricane season will be a new experience

 

[Lilofan]

Nonsense. Cornell has 99% of its students vaccinated and it has a strict mask mandate. Over 1200 students contracted Covid forcing the school to go to remote learning.

Just accept the fact that masks don’t work and the vaccines don’t stop transmission.

Whatever your take on it, wear your mask in a business that requires it or face the fact - no mask no service. I've seen anti mask Karens out there and it is amusing when they get escorted out of the business not by choice.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Nonsense. Cornell has 99% of its students vaccinated and it has a strict mask mandate. Over 1200 students contracted Covid forcing the school to go to remote learning.

Just accept the fact that masks don’t work and the vaccines don’t stop transmission.

Here we go again:

No one. Said. Vaccines. **STOP**. Transmission.

Vaccines aren't magic. They don't create an invisible bubble around you repelling all viruses. You can still inhale a virus that you've been vaccinated for. The virus can still replicate attempting to infect you leading to disease.

Good for us, a vaccine enables our bodies to immediately fight the infection. But sometimes, even that's not enough and we get sick from it, especially for the elderly and those with comorbidities (even if they're vaccinated).

Those vaccinated catch COVID less often, and are less a vector of the disease. Those vaccinated and get a breakthrough have less days of being contagious than the unvaccinated, and are thus less of a vector of disease.

Also, it's not that vaccinations have been tried and failed. They haven't really been tried when over 20% of the population refuse to get vaccinated and we haven't imposed a universal mandate.

It's like saying, "Hey, your dam isn't working!!" When you only let dam block 80% of the river.

And don't bring up colleges unless you can show me that all the students remained masked and distanced in the dormitories.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Nonsense. Cornell has 99% of its students vaccinated and it has a strict mask mandate. Over 1200 students contracted Covid forcing the school to go to remote learning.

Just accept the fact that masks don’t work and the vaccines don’t stop transmission.

Saying masks "don't work" is like saying Bullet-Proof Vests don't work because you still had heinous bruising after being shot while wearing one.

The definition of "work" has never been "an impenetrable forcefield", it has ALWAYS been "a mitigation tactic". In that regard, masks HAVE been proven to "work", because they slow the spread of viral particles out of the mouths of infected people. When worn properly, of course. They do not stop them 100%, but they stop them enough to make it really hard to infect someone who is more than 6 feet away. This has been said . . . from the beginning.

Vaccines don't stop transmission the same way seatbelts don't stop car accidents. It can still happen, but you'll be a LOT worse off without one than with one. And unfortunately, unlike car accidents, COVID is transmissible - so not taking the action to protect yourself also means a higher chance of hurting someone else, too. Even if they ARE "wearing a seatbelt", it's incumbent on you not to crash your car into another.

It's incredible to me that we can be this far into the pandemic and you can really still be parroting this when it's so demonstrably incorrect.

 

[danlb_2000]

My sister just told me here hospital has 60 cases and most were vaccinated and/or boosted. These are mostly not admitted for Covid-19, but discovered they had it when they were admitted for something else. Only one in ICU and none on a vent. Omicron is not got to be just the unvaccinated.

This is similar to what was being seen in South Africa.

 

[seascape]

The highest single day number of cases reported in the US was 300,777. Yesterday the US reported 298,761 cases. As a result, it looks like when today's numbers come out we will set the record for the most cases ever. Further think of this the highest 7 day average reported in the US was 251,232. We will blow that away in just a few days. Why? We were supposed to have a CDC that knew what to do and would beat Covid19. No, we have a CDC that doesn't know how to treat and solve this problem or follow science since they say they didn't see this problem coming, or atleast they didn't tell the President because the Whitehouse said they didn't know. What will Biden tell us today that he couldnt have told us Saturday? Why the delay of 4 days? On Saturday everyone knew NY had doubled its cases in just 3 days.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

The highest single day number of cases reported in the US was 300,777 on January 8, 2021. Yesterday the US reported 298,761 cases. As a result, it looks like when todays numbers come out we will set the record for the most cases ever. Further think of this the highest 7 day average reported in the US was 251,232. We will blow that away in just a few days. Why? We were supposed to have a CDC that knew what to do and would beat Covid19. No, we have a CDC that doesn't know how to treat and solve this problem or follow science since they say they didn't see this problem coming, or atleast they didn't tell the President because the Whitehouse said they didn't know. What will Biden tell us today that he couldnt have told us Saturday? Why the delay of 4 days? On Saturday everyone knew NY had doubled its cases in just 3 days.

Are you serious?

The problem is not the CDC. It’s the people irrationally against the vaccine. 100%.

 

[DisneyCane]

The highest single day number of cases reported in the US was 300,777. Yesterday the US reported 298,761 cases. As a result, it looks like when today's numbers come out we will set the record for the most cases ever. Further think of this the highest 7 day average reported in the US was 251,232. We will blow that away in just a few days. Why? We were supposed to have a CDC that knew what to do and would beat Covid19. No, we have a CDC that doesn't know how to treat and solve this problem or follow science since they say they didn't see this problem coming, or atleast they didn't tell the President because the Whitehouse said they didn't know. What will Biden tell us today that he couldnt have told us Saturday? Why the delay of 4 days? On Saturday everyone knew NY had doubled its cases in just 3 days.

The CDC has been an epic failure on COVID. Their name is Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. With respect to COVID, they have failed at both from day one! At the beginning they couldn't even deliver a COVID test that worked. The CDC has been behind the curve, more so than several other countries, for the entire pandemic. Look at the quality of data and the variant tracking elsewhere and how much better it is.

Before somebody says that it was because of who was in power when the pandemic started, the overwhelming majority of people at the CDC are career people, not political appointees. They were supposed to be preparing for something like this for decades but we get better information about variants from South Africa. I'd imagine that their equivalent agency doesn't have 1/10 the budget of the CDC.

Are you serious?

The problem is not the CDC. It’s the people irrationally against the vaccine. 100%.

No, not 100%. Some of the problem is people not getting vaccinated. Under 30% of the eligible population is not vaccinated. That isn't anywhere near 100% of the probelm.