Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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Chip Chipperson

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I’m basing this on what’s happening in pro sports right now, they are suffering tons of cases, almost all asymptomatic … but due to frequent testing they are being caught.

The earlier posts about testing made me chuckle because organizations like the NFL are stopping testing of vaccinated players because it’s catching so many asymptomatic cases they’re afraid they won’t be able to finish out the year.

It's purely anecdotal, but the handful of people I know who have had the virus all seem to consider themselves as not having any symptoms - and just somehow coincidentally caught COVID-19 when they had a cold (even going as far as to suggest that the "cold" left them exposed to catching COVID-19). Even those who were vaccinated keep saying that and it's amazing to me how people will try to convince themselves that they're not really sick despite all evidence to the contrary - literally coughing and sniffing during a phone call and saying, "I just don't understand how I could test positive when I don't have any symptoms." I do wonder how much of that is going on in pro sports. When I see people arguing that asymptomatic cases should be allowed to continue to practice and play, I wonder what the ultimate goal of their protocols really is, because an athlete wild mild symptoms that feels good enough to play might very well just lie and say, "I don't have any symptoms," and as long as they don't have a fever or a cough there's a good chance that they'll be allowed to play even if they have the worst headache they've ever had and can't smell or taste anything.
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
We've had that for 2 years now. Heck I know someone who had it twice before December last year (rolling eyes)


Ah yes, those claims are always fantastic.

"I know I had it last year."

"Did you get tested?"

"No, why bother? I know I had it."

"How do you know that's what it was?"

"I just do. What are the odds that I'd have a headache, runny nose, and sneeze 3 times in one day in the middle of June?"

"Did you quarantine?"

"Of course not! It's not a big deal, so why alter my whole life because of it???"
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Ah yes, those claims are always fantastic.

"I know I had it last year."

"Did you get tested?"

"No, why bother? I know I had it."

"How do you know that's what it was?"

"I just do. What are the odds that I'd have a headache, runny nose, and sneeze 3 times in one day in the middle of June?"

"Did you quarantine?"

"Of course not! It's not a big deal, so why alter my whole life because of it???"
Sounds like some famous last words we often hear in medicine: "I know my own body, I know it's not (fill in the blank)".
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
Ah yes, those claims are always fantastic.

"I know I had it last year."

"Did you get tested?"

"No, why bother? I know I had it."

"How do you know that's what it was?"

"I just do. What are the odds that I'd have a headache, runny nose, and sneeze 3 times in one day in the middle of June?"

"Did you quarantine?"

"Of course not! It's not a big deal, so why alter my whole life because of it???"
Yep! Now I am not discounting those who thought they had it and tested for it after. I have a good friend who had pneumonia sometime Feb of 2020. A month later they were struggling, so on a hunch their doc tested them for antibodies. Doc kind of changed how they treated - the long term stuff that is. Like I said I've known some who tested and were also asymptomatic and had antibodies. However the guy who had it 2x? Nah, total covid jerk too about it all. Oddly the spouse was completely the opposite. Couldn't imagine living with that in my home.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
I’d love to see antibody testing in this country, it would be interesting to know how many people have had it but never realized it because they had an asymptomatic or mild case. My guess is the reported cases are a fraction of the true cases.
A few months ago I think the CDC estimated that there were really 2-3 times the infections vs. what was reported. To do antibody testing now you'd have to use tests that are very good at differentiating between vaccine-induced and infection-induced antibodies.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
A few months ago I think the CDC estimated that there were really 2-3 times the infections vs. what was reported. To do antibody testing now you'd have to use tests that are very good at differentiating between vaccine-induced and infection-induced antibodies.

There have been dozens of reputable studies that all say true cases are undercounted, I’m not sure why having an accurate picture of where we stand is so controversial to people here, especially as we face another variant.

Not only would it show how many people have natural antibodies but it would also let fully vaccinated people know if they are due for a booster.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
There have been dozens of reputable studies that all say true cases are undercounted, I’m not sure why having an accurate picture of where we stand is so controversial to people here, especially as we face another variant.

Not only would it show how many people have natural antibodies but it would also let fully vaccinated people know if they are due for a booster.
In an ideal world, yes, we would want to know this information, but logistically, it would be extremely difficult to collect and process enough blood samples to obtain useful estimates for the entire population. Our phlebotomists and labs have other priorities right now. Not to mention that it's hard enough convincing enough people to take a free and effective vaccine. Imagine the political optics is we suddenly said "We need to draw blood from everyone for .... research purposes." Imagine the conspiracy theories that would generate.

Reminds me of an old Mitch Hedberg joke. " I went to the see the doctor today, but all he did was draw blood. Do not go to see Dr. Acula."
 

Texas84

Well-Known Member
I work for an 'essential' US government group. We were offered the first two jabs voluntarily before even at risk groups. In our last all-hands meeting someone asked if we would be able to get a booster through work. Our chief said no, go to Kroger or Publix if you want it. Beginning to think we were a test group. We don't wear masks either.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
In an ideal world, yes, we would want to know this information, but logistically, it would be extremely difficult to collect and process enough blood samples to obtain useful estimates for the entire population. Our phlebotomists and labs have other priorities right now. Not to mention that it's hard enough convincing enough people to take a free and effective vaccine. Imagine the political optics is we suddenly said "We need to draw blood from everyone for .... research purposes." Imagine the conspiracy theories that would generate.

Reminds me of an old Mitch Hedberg joke. " I went to the see the doctor today, but all he did was draw blood. Do not go to see Dr. Acula."
Not so bad when the med staff can find a vein to draw blood. If they can't right away it is a challenge for them to get it out of you.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
I work for an 'essential' US government group. We were offered the first two jabs voluntarily before even at risk groups. In our last all-hands meeting someone asked if we would be able to get a booster through work. Our chief said no, go to Kroger or Publix if you want it. Beginning to think we were a test group. We don't wear masks either.
TX doesn't surprise me. A couple were told to leave the Hang Time restaurant in Howlett when they were masked up and did not want to comply with the no mask rule the location set as policy.
 

Kevin_W

Well-Known Member
Indeed, as you have read, the rate of positive tests – almost assuredly due to omicron – accelerated over just the past few days in New York City and other cities in the U.S.
Yep, here is the case curve for Cuyahoga country (Cleveland, OH area). Almost assuredly Omicron:

1640029601602.png
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
In an ideal world, yes, we would want to know this information, but logistically, it would be extremely difficult to collect and process enough blood samples to obtain useful estimates for the entire population.
Actually knowing all the real cases might be nice academically, but it wouldn't impact the actions we need to take today at all.

This is the core problem with any of the "prior COVID is as good as vaccination" plans, beyond that they required having COVDI at least once. (Which is kind of a big deal too.)

With the vaccine, we know the standardized dose received and it's impact. They've studied at least a few different doses to arrive at the one being given. Right down to the more recent kids under 5 needing the dose adjusted more.

To know if someone is likely to have had a adequate response from prior COVID comparable (or better) to vaccination we would need to know several things not normally known.

First did they really have COVID or just think they did? This one is mostly easy, anyone that had a positive COVID test at least knows they really did have it. Those without, it may or may not be to late to figure it out.

Second, was the infection enough of a dose to have a robust response comparable (or better) than vaccination? With the vaccine this is relatively easy. The entire manufacturing and delivery process is designed to give someone the exact (or better) dose that was studied. In recent 5-12 cases where an insufficient dose was used, they gave all the kids another dose of the correct size. Determining this was the hard part in the study so that now it's easy. With natural infection, nobody knows how much they actually got. Instead, we would need an after the fact test that can figure it out. Likely a blood test. It's hard to imagine this would be cheaper/easier/more likely for people to do than just getting the vaccine anyway. Even if you convinced people to get a more complicated blood test to determine it, some number would still need to get vaccinated because of an insufficient natural infection.

For those that had a robust enough response to prior infection, it would at least let them be "right" about vaccination. Probably still need a booster anyway. Getting COVID again doesn't sound like a fun booster. Still, there's value to being "right".


Here's a thought, tell everyone we have a great new test to determine if a prior infection was as robust, for anyone with a valid positive test. It's simpler than a blood test too with less effort. We give you this shot and it'll leave a bright neon green dot on your arm if your prior response was enough. If not, come back in a month for a second test. The second test will turn bright purple if the response wasn't enough and nothing if you're good. Different response to avoid the first test impacting the second. I'm sure we could do it for the exact same cost as vaccination.
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
Yep, here is the case curve for Cuyahoga country (Cleveland, OH area). Almost assuredly Omicron:

View attachment 608655
Cleveland hosptials stated half of the cases were omicron. The NYT line looks way better than ones I saw too. I have a friend who works in that area (commuting for now) and is glad they don't have to go back up until after the new year. Work is mandating boosters for those who qualify

Despite the boos, this is good news. I hope it convinces others to do likewise.

No one cared when he or Pence got the first shot :(
 
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