Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[LittleBuford]

Look I don't know how to tell you, parts of my area are REALLY bad. If you don't want to believe me fine, but some parts have significantly passed what it was last winter. Believe what you want but my reality is that people just don't care. So please respect that you don't know what my state is like. The numbers per 100k are astounding in many areas here and just as bad as UK. And yet no masks, no caring. Some places will never care. I'm lucky that my cases are half of that around 50 per 100k but we have some insane numbers. I get you want to claim people just aren't seeing it yet and that we'll jump off and be more careful, but I hate to break it to you - people are jerks and simply won't care.

I'm not sure why I'm having such trouble conveying my point, which isn't at all what you seem to think it is. I'm not doubting anyone's experience of their own location. I'm saying that the explosion of Omicron-caused cases seen here in the UK and elsewhere in Europe simply hasn't happened yet in the US. That's just a statement of fact, not a matter of opinion. I'm not expecting anyone to agree with my assessment of what will (or might) happen once Omicron truly does take hold in the US, but I don't think I'm saying anything controversial by simply pointing out that variant has thus far had more of an effect on this side of the Atlantic than in the US.

 

[DisneyCane]

10% is not a ton of people and most being asymptomatic meaning there . Your comment here just makes the assumption that vaccines are useless. They aren't so how about you knock off the anti-vax BS. Vaccinated are far less likely to get sick and spread. https://www.osfhealthcare.org/blog/fully-vaccinated-less-likely-to-pass-covid-19-to-others/

Honestly incredibly tired of your misinformation lately. Not sure what your agenda is. Where you live IIRC restrictions were lifted so why people like you keep pushing rhetoric baffles me. Time to silence for a while I guess.

How can you say that 10% of a population of people being infected within a week is not a ton? What difference does it make for spread if they are asymptomatic if the asymptomatic can spread it? If asymptomatic means highly unlikely to spread it then why are 100k+ asymptomatic people, the vast majority of whom are vaccinated wearing masks every day indoors at WDW? Why do I have to wear a mask on a flight?

You can't just call things misinformation if you interpret them differently than I do. What misinformation?

FACT: The NBA players are over 95% vaccinated
FACT: Over 10% of those players can not currently play because they tested positive for COVID

You may not think that means anything. To me, it means that the vaccines are not very effective in preventing infection and spread. They may very well reduce the spread to an extent but there is no evidence that any vaccination rate achieved anywhere reduces spread to a large enough extent to make people stop caring about "the numbers." As long as people continue to focus on "the numbers" I have to do annoying things like wear masks on theme park rides at WDW and on airplanes.

It is pretty clear that COVID is going to be around for a very long time no matter what we do. People just need to accept it and whatever comes with it. Every single time that it seemed that the pandemic was ending due to a combination of vaccination and natural immunity, another variant has popped up and caused a huge outbreak again.

If we want to follow the science we also need to discuss the science of animal reservoirs. How can we eradicate something that huge percentages of some animals test positive for?

Just because restrictions were lifted where I live doesn't mean that I don't have to deal with nonsense when I travel.

Pointing out things that the vaccines do not do is not being anti-vax. I have constantly said that they appear to be highly effective at preventing serious disease, hospitalization and death and that it is a good idea to get vaccinated and keep up with boosters for your own protection. Pointing out that they aren't very effective at stopping spread (at least with Omicron) is just a fact and I'm tired of the narrative that the only reason COVID is still around is people who don't get vaccinated.

See Vermont, see Portugal, see Ontario, Canada, see the NBA, NFL and NHL for many examples that prove it will still be around and still spread with extremely high vaccination rates. The only misinformation is the suggestion that if 100% of people got vaccinated then COVID would cease to exist. If 100% of people got vaccinated then a lot fewer people would end up in the hospital or dead from COVID but it would still exist, people would still get sick, some would still get very sick and some would die.

 

[hopemax]

why do countries like the US and Canada not have a test surplus to prevent shortages? Why do we not have free, quality in home tests readily available? Why aren’t the pills that have been developed by several companies to prevent hospitalization not being fast tracked? They should already be available.

NYT reports Abbott Labs told workers at COVID-19 test factory to throw away inventory

 

[LittleBuford]

I should add that I'm not talking about whether anyone will "care" or not about the effects of the new variant. I'm suggesting that the effects themselves might be so widespread that their impact simply can't he ignored, even by those who care least about the pandemic.

 

[mikejs78]

Isn't it very likely to be quickly appealed to the supreme court? Isn't there also a possibility of a supreme court justice issuing a stay pending the decision?

I doubt it. So far Justices Kagan, Sotomeyour, Breuer, Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Barrett have been generally favorable towards vaccine mandates in their rulings.

 

[Nubs70]

I'm not saying people should care or will care (clearly I think they should, but that is not the point I'm trying to make). All I'm saying is that, if the situation here in the UK is anything to go by, cases are going to rise exponentially throughout the US because of Omicron. In no way am I doubting that things are already bad where you are. I'm the last person to downplay the effects of this pandemic, and I'm kind of shocked that you'd edit your previous response to me to group me together with someone of DisneyCane's mindset ("Another poster I'm not going to argue with").

At any rate, I have clarified my point multiple times and think it's best we drop this exchange, as you yourself suggested.

Has the UK fatality rate responded in kind?

 

[mikejs78]

Actually, the mandate came from OSHA which derives its authority from a law passed by Congress and signed by the executive. Assuming the appeals to the SCourt fails, the supremacy clause will be in effect.

Of course since the ruling states vaccine or frequent testing, seems like establishing a testing regimen as a option satisfies both state and federal rules.

It doesn't though because the state law allows for opt outs for prior infection, "planned or current pregnancy", and a much more encompassing religious exemption that allows opting out of both vaccination and testing.

 

[mikejs78]

Merck submitted their drug for FDA approval in October. Pfizer submitted one of their anti viral drugs in November. Neither have been approved by the FDA. The EU isn’t even going to consider the Merck drug until next year. As soon as they were submitted to the FDA, the advisory panel and the FDA itself should have gotten into a room and been able to either approve or deny within a week. If they need to work all hours of the day to cover all necessary steps, so be it. There is no sense of urgency. Really, they should have treated this type of drug development as operation warp speed 2.

are these pills even in the hands of pharmacies across the country, ready to give out with a doctor subscription immediately? If not, why not?

Because a new drug requires a ton of review of the data. Contrary to what some may think, an antiviral has a lot more in the way of potential adverse affects than a vaccine. So they need to make sure that all the data is right, and that can take weeks to review.

Has the UK fatality rate responded in kind?

Way too early to tell. Deaths lag cases by about 4 weeks. But hospitalizations are going up.

 

[LittleBuford]

Has the UK fatality rate responded in kind?

Hospitalisations are rising. As has been pointed out many times before, it isn't just about deaths, but the strain on the health system (which is an especially urgent consideration for a country like the UK with universal healthcare).

UKHSA data dashboard

Overall summary of the respiratory viruses in circulation within the UK

coronavirus.data.gov.uk

 

[The Mom]

I think some of you should step away from the computer for a while.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

2a. It’s been a long road, so we know people are eager to spend this Christmas with family. Prioritize your gatherings. If it is most important for grandparents and grandchildren to celebrate together, skip high risk situations like work gatherings, church services, pop-up Christmas bars, the Nutcracker, etc.

Just got back from an out of state Christmas weekend with family and two things struck me…

1) I’ll NEVER skip another Christmas over Covid with my family. We aren’t as young as we used to be and I don’t know how many we have left. We are all vaccinated so it makes zero sense to skip precious time over “what ifs”.

2) The “United” States are two completely different worlds right now. My state (NV) is fairly strict with mask mandates and the pandemic is still very visible… and my families state (UT) feels like Covid doesn’t exist. It felt very odd to walk into businesses and see no masks and people packed shoulder to shoulder.

Ironically Red Utah has a higher vaccination rate (58%) than Blue Nevada (56%) but thankfully both are averaging fewer cases per 100,000 than the national average.

All I know is it was wonderful to spend time with my family after skipping last year.

 

[DisneyFan32]

Biden will talk on Tuesday to the nation according to his team on what plans will be implemented if the numbers keep rising and stress again for the unvaccinated who are able to, to get vaccinated.

That will take care of all millions of unvaccinated people that gotta get vaccinated by Spring/Summer 2022 so the pandemic will be ending soon faster.

 

[danlb_2000]

Regarding using all the tools, given the number of positive tests in the NFL, NBA and NHL which are all over 95% vaccinated, it does not appear that the vaccines can do much to slow spread.

Hard to prove that without knowing what things would look like without the vaccine. Maybe there would be even more cases without it.

 

[danlb_2000]

We had the monoclonal antibody treatments approved and in use before the vaccines came on line, and we'll soon have two oral antiviral treatments available for a pathogen that nobody knew about a little over two years ago, so clearly, no, the developed world did not "put all their eggs in the vaccine basket". Despite what some internet commenters might say, the fight against this disease (or any disease) was never an all-or-nothing investment in one strategy. The treatments complement the prevention strategies, but primary prevention is still the most important first step.

The treatments, BTW, must be given in a very time-sensitive window to maximize their efficacy. Considering that the monoclonal antibody infusion requires time and skilled nursing to administer (two resources in short supply at present), we won't be able to infuse our way out of the pandemic.

And now there's reports of our current monoclonal treatments not working against omicron...

Not to mention the things that were studied but didn't turn out to be useful.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Hard to prove that without knowing what things would look like without the vaccine. Maybe there would be even more cases without it.

The important thing is they’re surviving unscathed, which is the #1 reason to get the vaccine.

I don’t care if everyone gets it as long as we aren’t suffering long term issues from it.

 

[correcaminos]

Hard to prove that without knowing what things would look like without the vaccine. Maybe there would be even more cases without it.

I'd wager more than a maybe on that one!

In other news one of the major cities that has seen an uptick has more omicron than other strands in my state. Cases have shot up at almost a straight line. Hospitalizations up 33%. Will be watching that area. Locally hospitalizations are tight but it varies a lot through the day. Watching NY too

Just glad that my family hasn't canceled Christmas. Sounds strange but I'm not sure what more we all can do.

 

[carolina_yankee]

That didn’t help places like Canada as well as many other counties, so what are we doing? Why does the world keep wanting to implement the same failed strategy that his been in place since prior to vaccines that was supposed to buy us time until vaccines became available? With the worldwide vaccine rates, it hasn’t worked. And it won’t work. Why do we expect different results? Do we want to lock down one or twice a year for the next decade or longer.

why do countries like the US and Canada not have a test surplus to prevent shortages? Why do we not have free, quality in home tests readily available? Why aren’t the pills that have been developed by several companies to prevent hospitalization not being fast tracked? They should already be available.
It’s sad how much the world sucks at this. We have been warned since the beginning about mutations, yet the strategy the world continues to have in place just drags out the possibility of further ones. Makes no sense. It’s insane. Time to adjust what is priority.

I’m not sure it didn’t help other places. Perhaps their numbers would be worse if they did nothing? France is worse than the US and NJ, but better than my county which is filled with people doing diddly-squat.

There is no “end game” for COVID. It’s “Learn to live safely with it” and learn that it will, in fact, change the rules on us at a current rate of about once every nine months. I’m changing my personal behavior (no movies or indoor dining for me for a couple of months) but I’m not changing protocols at church (masking required, distancing set up as optional for those who want it) and we’re going on 18 months of zero issues so, to us, protocols work.

I am in full agreement on ramping up testing. That is essential and it should be as easy here as it is in other western countries. Sadly, it’s not.

As for treatments - well that depends on their effectiveness against the new variants. Quite frankly, I don’t want to forgot safety protocols to rely on that.

 

[DisneyFan32]

I’m not sure it didn’t help other places. Perhaps their numbers would be worse if they did nothing? France is worse than the US and NJ, but better than my county which is filled with people doing diddly-squat.

There is no “end game” for COVID. It’s “Learn to live safely with it” and learn that it will, in fact, change the rules on us at a current rate of about once every nine months. I’m changing my personal behavior (no movies or indoor dining for me for a couple of months) but I’m not changing protocols at church (masking required, distancing set up as optional for those who want it) and we’re going on 18 months of zero issues so, to us, protocols work.

I am in full agreement on ramping up testing. That is essential and it should be as easy here as it is in other western countries. Sadly, it’s not.

As for treatments - well that depends on their effectiveness against the new variants. Quite frankly, I don’t want to forgot safety protocols to rely on that.

Cheer up, the pandemic will be over soon by next year. So hold up already.

 

[mmascari]

Just got back from an out of state Christmas weekend with family and two things struck me…


All I know is it was wonderful to spend time with my family after skipping last year.

We’re doing Christmas with families this year too. Two different trips too, by car.

We’re also doing at home COVID tests the day we leave on each trip. Plus the people were visiting are doing tests too. Either that day or the day before. We figure there’s no sense just being reckless. Plus, nobody wants to accidentally doom Nana.

The $15-$25 per person seems like a good investment and cheap in the overall trip cost.

I really do wish they used some of the testing money (assuming there still is some) to just send everyone a tests every week. If everyone tested anywhere near as much the NFL or NBA we would find outbreaks way faster. Make it simple like the CO reporting indicates, allow people to just request tests every week.

WDW related, imagine if every onsite guest got a home rapid test every day. Take it in the room. Even if you just told people not to go into the park if positive. Validate it at the hotel and link to ticket if we cannot trust people. Provide some support services for people that test positive. Let them exchange their park ticket for them.

 

[mmascari]

Not like that. It was something more like a press release or story about a press release. An actual company submitting some plan to the FDA. Not a political speech.

Edit, this was a reply that I lost the link on mobile.