Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[lazyboy97o]

So you expect 95% or more of the world to become vaccinated? No. Then vaccines alone with this virus won’t do it. Time to stop living in the past and pretending this virus is like every previous one. Time to stop pretending we aren’t an open and easily accessible worldwide society where spread happens in a heartbeat.
I know you like to be an expert on everything but sometimes its okay to admit you know little to nothing about ending this pandemic. And what’s worse…neither do the experts.

I don’t have be an expert to realize the silliness of demanding some entirely new paradigm be pulled out of thin air.

 

[Andrew C]

I don’t have be an expert to realize the silliness of demanding some entirely new paradigm be pulled out of thin air.

As opposed to supporting the same strategy with no end game? Have fun.

 

[JoeCamel]

All I can say is that the "in the trenches" Epi, virology, immunology people on Twitter have been asking for all sorts of things this whole time, and pointing out things other countries have done in terms of testing, tracing, etc. But they don't decide where the money goes and what the priorities are. Pharmaceutical CEOs and non-medical political leaders do. And they have been acting like everyone else... this has to be all over soon, right? If we do nothing at all, now that we have vaccines, this will be all over. No point in investing in a bunch of stuff that won't be needed because this was just going to turn into a cold. People got vaccinated in May, ripped off their masks and declared they were done with COVID. Why should the money / decision guys have thought people were interested in anything else? And we don't invest in things we can't justify / sell.

If you want effective leadership, first you have to elect people who believe that government action has a positive purpose and can help. Believe that research should be funded. Not people who believe government is the problem or business managers who don't invest in things with unknown ROI. Up until 2020 very, very, very few people even believed something like this situation could happen. In 2021, very few people believed that this situation would continue to have the "bite" it has had. And once Omicron blows through people will be back to being done, and that doing anything COVID related is a waste of energy, resources, time and money.

These things require community action. But since vaccinations, people have been screaming about individual choice as the solution. I certainly haven't seen many people in this thread asking for more community action as much as I've seen people declare it unnecessary. You get what you pay for, you get what you value, you get what you support. You don't get the things that a few knowledgeable people know are necessary but can't convince anyone else about the basic need because others can't even possibly imagine any of this.

OK, I agree with most of what you posted but why would pharmaceutical CEO's want this to end? They are raking in the billions being spent. That is what fuels the conspiracy that we will need boosters forever because those companies make money so they won't give us the good stuff that ends this.

 

[correcaminos]

How dare you bring facts, an outside view and substance into this illogical rant. The UK is nothing like the US and you don’t know anything about the US despite the fact that you live here.

Erm, my thoughts were based on reactions of people here while cases skyrocketed due to omicron, but thanks for the passive aggressive insult. The poster sees things through different views. Neither of us was wrong, I'm just very pessimistic living where I do.

To add where cases are higher than UK there have been zero talks of shutting down a university there. They're just now requiring boosters for all. My point was people still suck. That's all and that's my observation living in a state where many don't care. It's nice to think some do, but the ones in charge don't give a flip anymore.

 

[mmascari]

And once Omicron blows through people will be back to being done, and that doing anything COVID related is a waste of energy, resources, time and money.

That’s so optimistic. Many will be there long before Omicron blows through. Making it all the worse.

 

[LittleBuford]

To add where cases are higher than UK there have been zero talks of shutting down a university there.

British universities have taken a very different approach from their American counterparts throughout the pandemic. I'm in the American system and consider myself extremely fortunate that we have acted far more cautiously than our peer institutions in the UK. I expect a good number of American universities to follow Harvard's lead and move back to online teaching during the coming weeks or months.

 

[hopemax]

OK, I agree with most of what you posted but why would pharmaceutical CEO's want this to end? They are raking in the billions being spent. That is what fuels the conspiracy that we will need boosters forever because those companies make money so they won't give us the good stuff that ends this.

Raking in money doesn't mean they can sell every product they could potentially develop. They focus what they develop on what they think they can sell. They have limited lab space and labor too. When SARS didn't turn into anything, they shelved a bunch of projects. Some of which were pulled off for this. Government has signaled they will pay for a magic bullet solution, not everything. Not tests to send to every household, not N95 masks to send to every household, etc. Everyone was predicting this would be cold/flu like soon, so that's a huge signal to wind things down and invest in non-COVID mRNA applications that they can charge even more bucks for.

 

[mmascari]

So you expect 95% or more of the world to become vaccinated? No. Then vaccines alone with this virus won’t do it. Time to stop living in the past and pretending this virus is like every previous one. Time to stop pretending we aren’t an open and easily accessible worldwide society where spread happens in a heartbeat.
I know you like to be an expert on everything but sometimes its okay to admit you know little to nothing about ending this pandemic. And what’s worse…neither do the experts.

Beyond masks, testing, “COVID protocols”, and other mitigations, plus vaccination, do you have some other suggestion?

We’re still not even doing all (most) of those correctly. We never really did.

Is there some other magic solution that allows everyone to do nothing and ends this that we’re just missing? If there is, I’m all for it 100%.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

This is pretty much what I've been saying since day 1. Our lives aren't that long especially when considering that many people reach an age or have health issues which shorten the "good years" even more. I've never denied COVID exists or that it kills people. I have been consistent that I don't want to waste (at the time I started saying it) a year of my life by being restricted from doing things that I enjoy.

Other than missing my 2020 trip to Vegas because it shut down and a few visits to WDW during the closure I have continued to live as if COVID doesn't exist. I got my vaccination as soon as I was eligible and my booster as soon as I was due. If I get a serious breakthrough case then it was just in the cards for me. I barely saw my Dad for the last five months of his life trying to protect my parents from COVID. Then he got at brain hemorrhage and passed. Was that somehow better because it wasn't COVID? Nope!

We had a similar experience the summer of 2020, we couldn’t visit our dad the last 3 months of his life because his nursing home was (justifiably) locked down due to Covid. Fortunately it wasn’t a surprise (he was in his 80s and had Parkinson’s) so we all talked frequently on the phone but it doesn’t make it any less painful we couldn’t say goodbye in person and he died surrounded by (wonderful) nurses rather than his family.

Covid is devestating but some of the unintended consequences of the safety measures have been equally as devastating.

 

[hopemax]

As opposed to supporting the same strategy with no end game? Have fun.

I don't remember you asking for alternate strategy in November. I remember getting dumped on for my insistence that Omicron was going to be something we couldn't ignore, and most everyone else saying they were not doing anything different at this point. If that was good for everyone, why would anyone with power think they had the political capital to waste on alternate COVID strategies? People told them what to do, which was a big fat nothing. Individual responsibility.

 

[Andrew C]

Beyond masks, testing, “COVID protocols”, and other mitigations, plus vaccination, do you have some other suggestion?

We’re still not even doing all (most) of those correctly. We never really did.

Is there some other magic solution that allows everyone to do nothing and ends this that we’re just missing? If there is, I’m all for it 100%.

If the US did everything perfectly, it would matter when other countries have low vaccination rates.

I have my opinions of what may be better. But it’s pretty scary that the experts don’t seem to know much more.

 

[DisneyFan32]

The NYT today published a piece explaining that the vaccines that are most globally prevalent (basically those that aren't Pfizer or Moderna) probably won't prevent widespread infection from Omicron, though—and this is very important—they do still offer protection against severe illness.

Most of the World’s Vaccines Likely Won’t Prevent Infection From Omicron

They do seem to offer significant protection against severe illness, but the consequences of rapidly spreading infection worry many public health experts.

www.nytimes.com

Well, we're doomed for many years.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

OK, I agree with most of what you posted but why would pharmaceutical CEO's want this to end? They are raking in the billions being spent. That is what fuels the conspiracy that we will need boosters forever because those companies make money so they won't give us the good stuff that ends this.

They are not immune, nor are their friends and family. Sure they get the best care money can buy but they are just as susceptible to a breakthrough case as any of us.

Although I guess if someone believes they are hiding a ”cure” they’d also believe they are giving themselves the cure while withholding it from us.

 

[Andrew C]

I don't remember you asking for alternate strategy in November. I remember getting dumped on for my insistence that Omicron was going to be something we couldn't ignore, and most everyone else saying they were not doing anything different at this point. If that was good for everyone, why would anyone with power think they had the political capital to waste on alternate COVID strategies? People told them what to do, which was a big fat nothing. Individual responsibility.

Three reasons for the most part. One, they are supposed to know more than me. Two. I underestimated the reaction from the world. I didn’t think they would go with the same strategy as we used last winter. Three. I was naive enough to think the pills for treatment would be available by now.

 

[LittleBuford]

Well, we're doomed for many years.

The important point is that being vaccinated offers you a very high level of protection from severe illness. That's the thing to focus on. We will get through this, I promise. Quite when and how I'm not sure, but there's every reason to be optimistic in the long term.

 

[correcaminos]

British universities have taken a very different approach from their American counterparts throughout the pandemic. I'm in the American system and consider myself extremely fortunate that we have acted far more cautiously than our peer institutions in the UK. I expect a good number of American universities to follow Harvard's lead and move back to online teaching during the coming weeks or months.

And again I am not sure I agree. Case in point the university I spoke of. Get 3rd shot. That's it. Maybe some with prestige and money can afford it. Many cannot financially. We'll see but given the lack of care here, I'd say we're not doing that here. Heck my local is now just starting to enact on the vaccine requirements. Lots of contacts with profs here. One friend just moved universities and got notice they'd lose email access for not turning in vaccine status.... they resigned long before fall semester started

Again I live in a state that makes it impossible to mandate vaccines for any kid under 16 at the moment and stated we cannot enforce quarantines in school. In one of the lowest vaccinated states in the country. We just don't care and it's heartbreaking.

ETA: not being argumentative really just expressing my annoyance and frustration with this all here. I'm tired of people not caring.

 

[mmascari]

Not tests to send to every household, not N95 masks to send to every household, etc.

Wouldn’t that be nice.

Do an at home test everyday or every other day with breakfast. Paid sick day if it’s positive. Supply of standard quality masks that you know aren’t counterfeit. Some economies of scale and volume to drive the cost down and none to people.

Even with poor vaccines, that could control spread relatively well. Not nearly as durable or cheap as vaccination. With vaccination could make a huge dent.

Couple the test ordering with result reporting, put mask wearing on the morning weather if cases are up or down.

Make the process simple to do online or from a phone or in a library or post office.


Of course, that still imagines that everyone, say 95%, would do it. We would probably still have 30% not bother. This is why we cannot have nice things.

 

[correcaminos]

Wouldn’t that be nice.

Do an at home test everyday or every other day with breakfast. Paid sick day if it’s positive. Supply of standard quality masks that you know aren’t counterfeit. Some economies of scale and volume to drive the cost down and none to people.

Even with poor vaccines, that could control spread relatively well. Not nearly as durable or cheap as vaccination. With vaccination could make a huge dent.

Couple the test ordering with result reporting, put mask wearing on the morning weather if cases are up or down.

Make the process simple to do online or from a phone or in a library or post office.


Of course, that still imagines that everyone, say 95%, would do it. We would probably still have 30% not bother. This is why we cannot have nice things.

Yup! I'm quite negative on the population at the moment like that (if you couldn't already tell)

 

[Andrew C]

Yup! I'm quite negative on the population at the moment like that (if you couldn't already tell)

You could be in South Africa with a 26% vaccination rate. And that’s the bigger issue.

 

[mmascari]

If the US did everything perfectly, it would matter when other countries have low vaccination rates.

I have my opinions of what may be better. But it’s pretty scary that the experts don’t seem to know much more.

Gotta start somewhere. The alternative is never starting.

Otherwise, might as well bring back polio and measles. They still exist outside the US.