Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

I'm not sure it's an all or nothing and approach, and I certainly think total shutdowns of any industry will cause just as many, though different, problems.

I can see mask mandates, vaccination ramp-ups, massive testing ramp up, and capacity limits for a period of time. European style health passes for restaurants, museums, arenas would be ideal but we know that won't happen here.

Regardless of what one feel about strategies, there is a reality - sick people can't work, and that will create its own chaos. Nobody's political leanings or opinions can overcome that reality. Lots of non-working actors and stage crews for the news few weeks in the theater capital of the world.

All we really need to do is be smart and cautious, using the tools we have. Will we?

Regarding using all the tools, given the number of positive tests in the NFL, NBA and NHL which are all over 95% vaccinated, it does not appear that the vaccines can do much to slow spread.

Symptoms and serious symptoms are another story as I think the majority of these athletes are asymptomatic.

 

[Touchdown]

To all claiming this is an all or nothing approach I disagree the federal govt is going to tell us on Tuesday:

1. You need to get vaccinated and boosted, if you aren’t your life is in danger and you need to lock yourself in. Ditto if you are immunosuppressed.

2. Even if you are triple vaxxed you need to take precautions, you should avoid large gatherings especially in indoor spaces and should probably avoid going to high risk activities (movies, restaurants, religious services, etc.)

3. Everyone needs to mask up inside

4. Hospitals are going to get overrun if you don’t take these precautions, and it will be entirely your fault. Be smart, we aren’t mandating anything right now and have no current plans to do so but if stupidity continues to reign you may force us.

 

[JoeCamel]

To all claiming this is an all or nothing approach I disagree the federal govt is going to tell us on Tuesday:

1. You need to get vaccinated and boosted, if you aren’t your life is in danger and you need to lock yourself in. Ditto if you are immunosuppressed.

2. Even if you are triple vaxxed you need to take precautions, you should avoid large gatherings especially in indoor spaces and should probably avoid going to high risk activities (movies, restaurants, religious services, etc.)

3. Everyone needs to mask up inside

4. Hospitals are going to get overrun if you don’t take these precautions, and it will be entirely your fault. Be smart, we aren’t mandating anything right now and have no current plans to do so but if stupidity continues to reign you may force us.

5. The economic health of your local business depends on people keeping themselves and others safe by distancing, masking and washing

 

[correcaminos]

Regarding using all the tools, given the number of positive tests in the NFL, NBA and NHL which are all over 95% vaccinated, it does not appear that the vaccines can do much to slow spread.

Symptoms and serious symptoms are another story as I think the majority of these athletes are asymptomatic.

Really? Yeah maybe I've seen entire classes get wiped out vs a few random cases I hear about with sports

Stop with the BS. Vaccines do reduce spread

 

[DisneyCane]

Really? Yeah maybe I've seen entire classes get wiped out vs a few random cases I hear about with sports

Stop with the BS. Vaccines do reduce spread

10% of the NBA players are currently out due to COVID tests. That's at one time. More show up due to regular testing of asymptomatic people but extrapolating it would take less than 20 weeks for 100% of the players to test positive at this rate. Whatever reduction in infection and spread exists, the evidence from the sports leagues indicates it isn't anywhere close to the reduction needed to "crush COVID."

These aren't isolated to just isolated teams. It's happening all over the leagues.

 

[mmascari]

Regarding using all the tools, given the number of positive tests in the NFL, NBA and NHL which are all over 95% vaccinated, it does not appear that the vaccines can do much to slow spread.

Has there been any stories about contact tracing for these people?

It’s not like they’re in a bubble environment. It would be good to know if mostly spread is coming from outside the group or if it’s spread within the vaccinated group. Like did 5 teammates go clubbing in a lower vaccinated area in a poorly ventilated space with no mitigation and all catch COVID, those 5 spreading to 5 more in team settings. Did all 10 catch it in the community directly, even including say a team event with outside staff. Alternatively, did say 2 people get infected externally then pass it on to 10 teammates.

The first couple are a result of vaccinated traveling in groups with to many unvaccinated and to high a spread. Vaccinating the external group, or going back to a bubble environment would help with that.

The last is a vaccine transmission failure. If it’s the last, everyone will catch it eventually, just a matter of time. So if someone isn’t vaccinated yet, they should as it’s a better prevention of a poor outcome than any treatment after they become sick. Would also be nice if they could start working on a new vaccine targeting why the current isn’t working well enough.

Good news, getting more people vaccinated is the correct action either way.
Bad news, it may not be enough action.

 

[hopemax]

To all claiming this is an all or nothing approach I disagree the federal govt is going to tell us on Tuesday:

1. You need to get vaccinated and boosted, if you aren’t your life is in danger and you need to lock yourself in. Ditto if you are immunosuppressed.

2. Even if you are triple vaxxed you need to take precautions, you should avoid large gatherings especially in indoor spaces and should probably avoid going to high risk activities (movies, restaurants, religious services, etc.)

3. Everyone needs to mask up inside

4. Hospitals are going to get overrun if you don’t take these precautions, and it will be entirely your fault. Be smart, we aren’t mandating anything right now and have no current plans to do so but if stupidity continues to reign you may force us.

2a. It’s been a long road, so we know people are eager to spend this Christmas with family. Prioritize your gatherings. If it is most important for grandparents and grandchildren to celebrate together, skip high risk situations like work gatherings, church services, pop-up Christmas bars, the Nutcracker, etc.

2c. Rapid test immediately before gathering. Status can change overnight or from morning to evening, so earlier tests may not accurately identify people who are positive.

 

[ArmoredRodent]

So nice to have thorough analyses by @ArmoredRodent

Thanks. A bit of an update:
Prof. Jonathan Adler, who knows much more about administrative law than I do, posted his thoughts on Friday night's Sixth Circuit panel opinion on the OSHA vaccine rule. He agrees with my first impression that the "major questions" doctrine will be key, but went further than I did and predicts that ultimately the Supreme Court will strike down the OSHA rule because it does assume too much power for the agency. He also points out that requests for Supreme Court review (as @DisneyCane asked) have already been filed, but also points out that the OSHA emergency rule must expire within six months, and that in the pandemic eviction ban emergency review, Justice Kavanaugh, the Sixth Circuit's Justice, voted to allow the temporary ban to expire rather than intervene. So, a little something for everyone during this holiday season.

Saw that. Memories of dinners with my parents immediately returned, and a reminder of why I decided against law school.

 

[DSMDGA]

We’ve been to the parks half a dozen times over the last few weeks with our annual passes, and I thought I would comment on what we’ve seen. Mask enforcement has been surprisingly inconsistent. While waiting for Big Thunder Mountain, there was an ongoing announcement that masks were required while in the indoor queue, but there was no enforcement until you actually got to the boarding platform. Less than 40% of people wore masks as instructed, and the maskless passed by a couple of cast members, including those at the top of the ramp that take you down to the loading area, without being told to mask up. Yet at Everest and Flight of Passage, they had masked cast members at the entrance telling you to have your mask ready, and another at the entrance to the enclosed area stopping people until they put them on. We also saw many cast members without masks, including in the enclosures on Jungle Trek. That surprised me. And at the shows, including the indoor Lion King, we’re being told to move allllllll the way down filling in every available space so more people can see the show.

 

[mmascari]

2c. Rapid test immediately before gathering. Status can change overnight or from morning to evening, so earlier tests may not accurately identify people who are positive.

I don’t remember where I saw it now, but there was a story about this. That a home test done immediately before an event was a better option than a lab test done one or two days before. That the home test doesn’t tell you if you’re infected and not contagious yet and will be tomorrow, but that it’s good for right now. While that lab test may detect earlier, but because it’s from so much earlier that advantage is negated. It may tell you 2 days earlier, but if you have to take it 2 days earlier the time is wasted and doesn’t provide value. If you could get the lab test and have the answer in 15 minutes, that would obviously be best, but not possible.

 

[mkt]

I wish, they'd be more normal then.

More arguing about why this justice of the state supreme court is an after my old-man spent time in court with him, then shigting arguing about why X local law is unconstitutional but nothing will get done because the state supreme is packed with party loyalists and the federal system locally is too bogged down to challenge it within a reasonable amount of time, and those with the money to challenge it benefit from it, so they won't anyway.

And then discussing his carpeta (cointelpro files kept on pro independence Puerto Ricans throughout the 1990s), before arguing that protests in the street are both protected free speech and not protected free speech from the perspective of various judges on the island.

Meanwhile mom and I smile and nod. This went on for years... then I applied for and got accepted to law school in 2009. And after going out for drinks with attorneys and law students my age, I enrolled in an MBA in Marketing and never set foot in any law school again.

My dad (the one that raised me) is a ridiculously political left-leaning ivy educated attorney and former politician who runs an insurance regulatory law firm... so of course I married the daughter of another politician, who herself is... managing claims counsel for a major insurance brokerage group, and has those same arguments as my dad at the dinner table at home. Until I pour her another drink. Except now she's pregnant, so the drinks are non-alcoholic, and lack the same numbing effect.

 

[Chi84]

I wish, they'd be more normal then.

More arguing about why this justice of the state supreme court is an ******* after my old-man spent time in court with him, then shigting arguing about why X local law is unconstitutional but nothing will get done because the state supreme is packed with party loyalists and the federal system locally is too bogged down to challenge it within a reasonable amount of time, and those with the money to challenge it benefit from it, so they won't anyway.

And then discussing his carpeta (cointelpro files kept on pro independence Puerto Ricans throughout the 1990s), before arguing that protests in the street are both protected free speech and not protected free speech from the perspective of various judges on the island.

Meanwhile mom and I smile and nod. This went on for years... then I applied for and got accepted to law school in 2009. And after going out for drinks with attorneys and law students my age, I enrolled in an MBA in Marketing and never set foot in any law school again.

My dad (the one that raised me) is a ridiculously political left-leaning ivy educated attorney and former politician who runs an insurance regulatory law firm... so of course I married the daughter of another politician, who herself is... managing claims counsel for a major insurance brokerage group, and has those same arguments as my dad at the dinner table at home. Until I pour her another drink. Except now she's pregnant, so the drinks are non-alcoholic, and lack the same numbing effect.

Yeah, these forums are uniquely ill-suited to discussions of the law; that's why I gave a nod to the lawyer who put in the time and effort to accurately explain some of the relevant legal issues. As long and involved as those explanations may seem, they're tons better than what some of the "armchair" legal analysts put out there.

 

[LittleBuford]

Nothing personal but your vantage point is too far away. Disney has been announcing tours returning this past week, not reducing anything. So far nothing here feels like it did back in 2020.

I live and work in America and am visiting my family in London for Christmas. I’m not speaking as someone who doesn’t understand the situation in the US or hasn’t experienced it firsthand. Still, I can’t claim that I’m doing anything more than guessing at this point.

 

[dreday3]

Sorry I didn't mean to imply it wasn't happening. Just that it wasn't a big enough story. I'm honestly not sure I agree with what is inevitable. I've heard no whispers here of our universities yet. Then again I live in a state that made us lose our ability to quarantine in schools more recently. The financial impact to universities were huge. We had much much lower numbers here at that shut down. Locally our numbers were higher this year than most times we were not in school last year. We shut down for much lower numbers last year vs this. It is not the same feel everywhere as last time tbh. I'm annoyed but no signs are the same. Many want to live with it and in my state, they rule the govt.


Nothing personal but your vantage point is too far away. Disney has been announcing tours returning this past week, not reducing anything. So far nothing here feels like it did back in 2020.

I agree, I don't think we will return to 2020 restrictions here in the US.

I work at a hospital (non-clinical) and there are no plans to return to remote work. The public schools aren't returning to remote. The most Chicago has been discussing is asking businesses to start requiring patrons to be fully vaccinated (with proof) in order to enter. We already have indoor masking. I think possibly capacity limits were on the table again for restaurants (but hasn't gone anywhere), but no full-closures being discussed at all.

 

[LittleBuford]

I agree, I don't think we will return to 2020 restrictions here in the US.

To be clear, I’m not talking about government restrictions; I know the US far too well to think that those would happen on any but the local level. I’m talking about private businesses and universities deciding to temporarily close or, if practicable, go remote.

 

[dreday3]

To be clear, I’m not talking about government restrictions; I know the US far too well to think that those would happen on any but the local level. I’m talking about private businesses and universities deciding to temporarily close or, if practicable, go remote.

Oh yeah, private businesses will make their own decisions.

I wish they'd let us go remote! I'm fully vaccinated and boosted, as is my family I'll be seeing Christmas Eve - but I'd still rather not chance catching omicron and not knowing I have it, see my 83 year old parents and give it to them!

I only go in Monday this week (took time off ) and office will be pretty empty and we have to wear masks, so I think will be okay.

 

[LittleBuford]

Oh yeah, private businesses will make their own decisions.

I wish they'd let us go remote! I'm fully vaccinated and boosted, as is my family I'll be seeing Christmas Eve - but I'd still rather not chance catching omicron and not knowing I have it, see my 83 year old parents and give it to them!

I only go in Monday this week (took time off ) and office will be pretty empty and we have to wear masks, so I think will be okay.

Good luck navigating it all, and enjoy the holidays!

 

[dreday3]

Good luck navigating it all, and enjoy the holidays!

You too!

Have a happy and safe holiday everyone! Don't eat too much!

 

[Lilofan]

Regarding using all the tools, given the number of positive tests in the NFL, NBA and NHL which are all over 95% vaccinated, it does not appear that the vaccines can do much to slow spread.

Symptoms and serious symptoms are another story as I think the majority of these athletes are asymptomatic.

Whatever the case those 95% of athletes vaccinated are probably glad they rolled up their sleeves to get the shots but there will be always a select few to critic the vaccine .

 

[correcaminos]

10% of the NBA players are currently out due to COVID tests. That's at one time. More show up due to regular testing of asymptomatic people but extrapolating it would take less than 20 weeks for 100% of the players to test positive at this rate. Whatever reduction in infection and spread exists, the evidence from the sports leagues indicates it isn't anywhere close to the reduction needed to "crush COVID."

These aren't isolated to just isolated teams. It's happening all over the leagues.

10% is not a ton of people and most being asymptomatic meaning there . Your comment here just makes the assumption that vaccines are useless. They aren't so how about you knock off the anti-vax BS. Vaccinated are far less likely to get sick and spread. https://www.osfhealthcare.org/blog/fully-vaccinated-less-likely-to-pass-covid-19-to-others/

Honestly incredibly tired of your misinformation lately. Not sure what your agenda is. Where you live IIRC restrictions were lifted so why people like you keep pushing rhetoric baffles me. Time to silence for a while I guess.