Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[CaptainAmerica]

Different forum, and a very multifaceted conversation there. Suffice it to say my previous voting history (never been “down ballot” one way or the other), and my feelings on the handling of this public health crisis - again from both of the overly vocal “sides” - is an evolving story.

Especially when it comes to our public health response, evolving data and situational awareness is going to warrant evolving attitudes. It hasn’t been and will continue to not be comfortable at times. At the darkest moments it downright stinks. That doesn’t mean we give up. Not this close to the finish line. Which we should be much closer to - 5-11 should be the “final push,” not the “hopefully they’ll be enough since adults can’t adult right now.”

Please, don’t take this as a personal attack. I’ve needed to remind myself or be reminded many times over, and will need to be reminded again. But, as Darwin taught us:
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself.

This dark crisis will pass. In many ways, it has let up significantly. But let’s push just a little more, and finally put this pandemic to bed.

I agree with all of this, but I think you're missing the pragmatic lens.

"Everyone who can get vaccinated, should" is an opinion, and I agree with it.

"Not everyone who can get vaccinated will" is a fact.

No matter how strongly we believe the Opinion, it doesn't change the Fact. "How do we get everyone vaccinated" presupposes that we CAN get everyone vaccinated, and we can't. People keep saying we need to reach the finish line before we can live our lives again, but we're never going to reach a finish line. That doesn't mean we should stop moving forward, it just means we don't need to wait for some magical threshold in order to get back to normal. We can get back to normal AND keep pushing vaccines. Saying "we can't get back to normal until everyone is vaccinated" is just admitting "we're never going back to normal."

 

[Andrew C]

And even now it pales in comparison to FL and TX at their peaks.

Well right now I would hope it pales in comparison considering CA is way off their own peak.

 

[Joesixtoe]

Good thing I've constantly advocated for everyone who's eligible to get vaccinated, including those with prior infection.

The report followed 200,000 patients with covid like illnesses for 8 months. Of the 200,000 patients studied, 1,020 had a previous covid infection. Of those 89 actually tested positive for covid. Now 6,328 of the 200,000 with covid like illnesses were fully vaccinated. Of the 6,328.. 324 of them tested positive. It's a percentage game. 89 is less than 324 the last I remember. Also once delta hits, the numbers go even more south for the vaccinated. Can't we just understand that your body produces antibodies regardless if you've had a vaccine or the virus itself? Go read the report it's in there.

 

[mikejs78]

Well right now I would hope it pales in comparison considering CA is way off their own peak.

I'm talking about Delta wave peaks.

 

[sullyinMT]

I agree with all of this, but I think you're missing the pragmatic lens.

"Everyone who can get vaccinated, should" is an opinion, and I agree with it.

"Not everyone who can get vaccinated will" is a fact.

No matter how strongly we believe the Opinion, it doesn't change the Fact. "How do we get everyone vaccinated" presupposes that we CAN get everyone vaccinated, and we can't. People keep saying we need to reach the finish line before we can live our lives again, but we're never going to reach a finish line. That doesn't mean we should stop moving forward, it just means we don't need to wait for some magical threshold in order to get back to normal. We can get back to normal AND keep pushing vaccines. Saying "we can't get back to normal until everyone is vaccinated" is just admitting "we're never going back to normal."

100%.

To your last paragraph, I blame those in charge whomever they are and however they lean. Clearly the SE wasn’t at the end when they went all out and had the devastating late summer/fall they just experienced. Clearly, the inter mountain west isn’t at the end as I’m experiencing now. Acting as though we are (opinion) doesn’t change that fact, either.

We (the US) may not be Canada, but tying their mitigations’ end to multiple data points (vaccinations, hospitalizations, cases, and deaths), is exactly what people want. Even if it’s uncomfortable short term. Most acknowledge that Australia, NZ, and Japan have mostly unworkable long term solutions for non-island nations, but they want SOME sort of answer. Instead, we have people loudly chasing zero while others loudly chase that it’s either over or never existed in the first place. Then there’s a reasonable majority in the gray soupy mess that just needs direction and a goal.

I agree that without hard and fast mandates and many more years, we’ll never get EVERYONE. But with a few months and enough major employers and travel restrictions around vaccines (flights, cruises, and to a lesser extent trains), we’ll get to ENOUGH. At least enough to decouple hospitalization and death from raw cases.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

Did it spike during Halloween?

 

[Andrew C]

I'm talking about Delta wave peaks.

Ahh. Yeah. Well they were all pretty significant. Florida having the worst doesn’t negate the fact that the peaks in California and Texas were also significant.
Luckily California was way off their winter peak, which was really really bad. But it still was quite significant. Texas delta was really close to their winter peak, but their winter peak was a bit less than California. And Florida blew their winter peak out of the water.
But yeah. Going back to why I brought this up. I don’t like that California has stopped declining. I get your point about the state size however and there are essentially two zones.

 

[mikejs78]

The report followed 200,000 patients with covid like illnesses for 8 months. Of the 200,000 patients studied, 1,020 had a previous covid infection. Of those 89 actually tested positive for covid. Now 6,328 of the 200,000 with covid like illnesses were fully vaccinated. Of the 6,328.. 324 of them tested positive. It's a percentage game. 89 is less than 324 the last I remember. Also once delta hits, the numbers go even more south for the vaccinated. Can't we just understand that your body produces antibodies regardless if you've had a vaccine or the virus itself? Go read the report it's in there. View attachment 597649

Uhh, that chart shows a worse situation for unvaccinated with a previous infection than vaccinated. 10.1% for previous infection vs 5.9% for unvaccinated. Never go by raw numbers. Percentages matter.

The immune system isn't as simple as you make it out to be. Because infection with COVID can take so many different forms and different levels of severity, immune response is not consistent. Some people with previous infection are a lot more protected than others.

Antibody response is just one aspect of immunity as well. Not all infections that produce antibodies will result in cellular memory immunity (with T-Cells and B-Cells). So immunity varies quite a bit with natural infection.

Contrast that with vaccines. The level of immunity is fairly consistent across individuals (barring immunocompromised individuals). It doesn't vary much. We know a person is protected if they were vaccinated. We don't know that with natural infection.

Couple that with the fact that natural immunity appears to wane at a much faster rate than vaccines wane, and don't have the same level of excellent protection against severe illness and death.

For some reason I feel like I said all this before...

 

[Chip Chipperson]

You seem to be addressing me as if I'm a COVID-hoaxer or anti-vaxxer. I assure you, I'm neither.

I'm addressing you as if you just compared COVID-19 to the flu and the common cold. Those are arguments that people have been making to downplay the severity of the virus since the beginning of the pandemic - and they are factually inaccurate.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And Florida blew their winter peak out of the water.

But so did Hawaii. And Vermont. Which sort of blows the "but muh Florida" arguments out of the water.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

No, I'm arguing that a universally accessible and highly effective vaccine has already made the virus less dangerous in the present, not "some point down the road."

Was it less dangerous in FL in 2021 when the death rate peaked much higher than the worst 2020 peak?

 

[Andrew C]

But so did Hawaii. And Vermont. Which sort of blows the "but muh Florida" arguments out of the water.

I understand. I was only making the comparison around the three most populated states.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Andrew C]

Was it less dangerous in FL in 2021 when the death rate peaked much higher than the worst 2020 peak?

If you were vaccinated. Yes.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm addressing you as if you just compared COVID-19 to the flu and the common cold. Those are arguments that people have been making to downplay the severity of the virus since the beginning of the pandemic - and they are factually inaccurate.

COVID is less deadly to children than the flu. That is a statement of fact.

COVID is much more deadly to the elderly than the flu. That is a statement of fact.

For fully vaccinated adults, COVID is less deadly than the flu. That is a statement of fact.

 

[Figgy1]

I took a 2 hour nap after getting a flu shot this year, I'm getting old too. First time I felt it.

The flu shot has always made me sleepy for a day or 2 afterwards as far back as when I started getting one.

 

[Dreaming of Disney World]

I'm so relieved that the vaccine was approved for kids ages 5-11! My husband wakes up early for work and got them appointments at Walgreens on Saturday. Now there are no appointments left at any Walgreens or CVS in our area.

 

[Andrew C]

I'm so relieved that the vaccine was approved for kids ages 5-11! My husband wakes up early for work and got them appointments at Walgreens on Saturday. Now there are no appointments left at any Walgreens or CVS in our area.

I was just able to get something at a CVS for next week. About a 40 minute drive which isn't bad considering I live in a rural area. lol

 

[mikejs78]

But so did Hawaii. And Vermont. Which sort of blows the "but muh Florida" arguments out of the water.

Not in regards to hospitalizations and deaths...

COVID is less deadly to children than the flu. That is a statement of fact

Not a statement of fact.

680 kids under age 18 have died from COVID. During the same timeframe (March 2020-present). During the entire 2019/2020 flu season and 2020/2021 flu season (which includes about 5 months prior to COVID starting to impact the US), 200 children died.

Can you explain to me how 3.4x more deaths makes it less deadly?

 

[jinx8402]

Kiddos scheduled for next Wednesday through our district's school clinic.