Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[CaptainAmerica]

One way to fly from the East Coast non stop to Hawaii wearing a mask is pick a window seat, take 10mg of Melatonin 30 min before take off and you will be melting into your seat and fast asleep and before you know it you will be landing in Honolulu.

Sadly, someone needs to stay away to prevent my children from climbing on the neighbors.

Do you think we're their now?

That in the US the rate of COVID has gotten down to what those articles describe as endemic and under control?

No, but the way we get to those levels will be through acquired immunity, whether via vaccination or infection. Masking and social distancing do not help us achieve endemicity, they just prolong the timeline.

 

[correcaminos]

What do you suggest? Masking and distancing and work-from-home and crappy customer service in perpetuity?

I suggest vaccinating everyone possible.

Though distancing can stay forever as far as I am concerned

 

[Nubs70]

You seem to be addressing me as if I'm a COVID-hoaxer or anti-vaxxer. I assure you, I'm neither.

Yes you are, there can be only one

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

What do you suggest? Masking and distancing and work-from-home and crappy customer service in perpetuity?

Vaccine passports for all optional activities would be a start.

Restaurants, theme parks, movie theaters, etc.

 

[mmascari]

I want people to state their end conditions for life returning to normal. I want them to say when they'd take the masks of the three year olds standing in line for Dumbo. When can a kindergarten teacher smile at her students as she welcomes them into the classroom? When can I fly from Boston to Honolulu without a piece of porous fabric strapped to my face for *11 hours*? When will we demand that companies *cough* stop using the pandemic as an excuse to continue offering poor service?

No. But it has killed thousands each year for decades. Hopefully we get Covid to those levels as well. Then we would be more comfortable, right? Not eradicated but at an acceptable level?

I've said before, roughly 150 deaths a day, about 50,000 a year is what I want to see. I feel bad that my number isn't lower, but it just isn't.

We're not there today, not even close. Hence, I'm not ready for an "every man for themselves" approach. The impact to the individual is still too dependent on the actions of the rest of the group.

Even at flu levels we’d have problems. The flu already fills up hospitals in the winter. Just doubling that number would cause problems, the intensity and length of illness just makes it worse.

Given enough time, we'll adapt capacity. It's going to be bad until we do. I don't think we're going to get it lower that that for a long time. Sad that it'll take less time to add hospital capacity than reduce the impact below that, since we all know how slow adding hospital capacity is.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Sadly, someone needs to stay away to prevent my children from climbing on the neighbors.


No, but the way we get to those levels will be through acquired immunity, whether via vaccination or infection. Masking and social distancing do not help us achieve endemicity, they just prolong the timeline.

You must have missed the paper from MMWR that we posted several times over the past two days that shows vaccinating is 5x more effective at preventing COVID than prior infection.

 

[sullyinMT]

No, but the way we get to those levels will be through acquired immunity, whether via vaccination or infection. Masking and social distancing do not help us achieve endemicity, they just prolong the timeline.

I think we're just about there for when public sentiment will really shift the way you want it to. Shoot, I was there full force this summer when cases and hospitalizations looked really good across the board here, the UK, and Israel. Just like the CDC, I was all in on maskless activity. I'll admit to not even being that concerned regarding my 11 year old. Cases were really low, we're not in a dense county, and his risk is statistically non-existent. But the post-July 4 wave that is still near its peak around here changed that. I'm all in on indoor masks. Yet, Florida's wave broke, we flew in N95's, and enjoyed the heck out of HHN two weeks ago. While wearing masks indoors.

We can post silly WandaVision memes all day long, but I think a lot of the holdouts among the vaccinated to feel as you do really does fall "For the Children." Especially the 5-11 year old cohort. We can argue their relative risk until we're blue in the face, but it's also important to note that dedicated pediatric care and equipment are likewise grossly underserved in vast swaths of the US. Now that all school-aged children are eligible for a vaccine, a lot of families will be fully vaccinated by Jan 1 assuming the program hits full steam in the coming weeks. Even if they felt mostly ok with Jackson playing 4th grade basketball, the collective sigh of relief from vaccinated parents who want to also protect their kids will be audible as a nation. Enough of those families, in enough areas, will shift sentiment to "you can do what you need to do to protect yourself." There will still be the 0-4 11/12 kids, but I don't think there will be as much pressure to continue holding out IF cases and hospitalizations fall nationally to our summer 2020 levels and stay there.

 

[Disstevefan1]

It is crystal clear that you are not a doctor or scientist and that you do not know how the COVID vaccine works, so since you have just acknowledged that fact, why don’t you stop trolling this thread with misinformation and use your time for something more productive?

You got it Buddy. Stay safe,

 

[lazyboy97o]

What do you suggest? Masking and distancing and work-from-home and crappy customer service in perpetuity?

To start would be to stop pandering to people spreading lies and validating their bunk as a perfectly fine, reasonable choice that should be respected.

We have seen the success of requiring vaccination for a whole list of other diseases. I have no problem with doing it again.

Masks as needed in perpetuity? ABSOLUTELY! Have a cough or the sniffles? Wear a mask! I don’t care if it’s “Just a cold” or “Allergies”. If you want to be in public while sniffing and hacking, keep it to yourself. I’d also be okay with area requiring masks if medical resources are being strained due to a respiratory illness, be it COVID-19, the flu or anything else.

Companies and institutions should relax their sick policies. We need to break the “tough it out” culture. If people are sick staying home should be the easy choice.

Improving education on some basics of medicine also seems to be necessary.

 

[Andrew C]

Hmmm...Cases in California continue to uptick just slightly (or flatten depending on how you're looking at it). Wondering why the state has now diverged from Texas and Florida trends. All three states had a significant summer surge (Florida leading the way of course before someone gets mad at me for not pointing this out) around the same time. Texas and Florida continue to fall...wondering if CA will get back on track. I know some state leaders are already sounding the alarm on a winter surge. So they either anticipate this could be the beginning or they are pre-warning people in an attempt to prevent it? Interesting...

 

[mmascari]

IF cases and hospitalizations fall nationally to our summer 2020 levels and stay there.

Ahh, the good old times.

When daily cases per 100K were under 5 and even under 3.
When daily deaths per 100K were under 0.05.

Those were the days. Let's get back to those days.

PLEASE, sincerely, let's get back to those days for the entire country.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I suggest vaccinating everyone possible.

That's literally the same thing I'm saying, so I'm not sure why you're arguing with me as if I'm saying the opposite.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You must have missed the paper from MWWR that we posted several times over the past two days that shows vaccinating is 5x more effective at preventing COVID than prior infection.

Good thing I've constantly advocated for everyone who's eligible to get vaccinated, including those with prior infection.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Virginia and New Jersey tell me it already has.

I don’t interpret that as, “no more masks! Let kids breathe!” as much as, “pandemic? What pandemic?”

Even among people with my leanings, most are ready to move on. They are either scrambling to get their kids vaccinated by Christmas or never intend to get them vaccinated. In either case,

From what I’m seeing, initial demand for pediatric vaccines is very high. We will see how long that lasts.

 

[sullyinMT]

Virginia and New Jersey tell me it already has.

Different forum, and a very multifaceted conversation there. Suffice it to say my previous voting history (never been “down ballot” one way or the other), and my feelings on the handling of this public health crisis - again from both of the overly vocal “sides” - is an evolving story.

Especially when it comes to our public health response, evolving data and situational awareness is going to warrant evolving attitudes. It hasn’t been and will continue to not be comfortable at times. At the darkest moments it downright stinks. That doesn’t mean we give up. Not this close to the finish line. Which we should be much closer to - 5-11 should be the “final push,” not the “hopefully they’ll be enough since adults can’t adult right now.”

Please, don’t take this as a personal attack. I’ve needed to remind myself or be reminded many times over, and will need to be reminded again. But, as Darwin taught us:
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself.

This dark crisis will pass. In many ways, it has let up significantly. But let’s push just a little more, and finally put this pandemic to bed.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Iin high vax lock down states they also had waves...just like fast and loose states. I would rather understand the risk...do what i can to mitigate it (including being vaxed) and go on with life. I am so thankful i live here in Florida.

But when the Delta wave hit, states with a lesser vaccination rates and an abhorrence to mitigation (e.g., "masks!!"), got hit hard. Unvaccinated people's rate of catching Delta was many times more than the breakthroughs of those vaccinated.

In the Alpha wave, NJ and NY got hit hard. And for the longest time, they were the leaders in deaths per capita.

But with the Delta wave, the Southern states got hit hard. Mississippi and Alabama have surpassed NJ in deaths per capita. Louisiana and Arizona have surpasses NY. Arkansas is number 7. And guess which state has the 8th most number of deaths per capita now?

FLORIDA is #8 most deaths per capita.

And... you're thankful you live in Florida?

Florida's death rate during this last Delta wave was 350 deaths *per day.* It's now still over 100 deaths per day. At this rate, Florida will pass NY for total number of deaths per capita.

If only more people... or *everyone* got vaccinated, then that last Delta wave would have been a small blip rather than this...

[Yes, vaccinated people *can* die from breakthroughs... but 12 times less than the unvaccinated. It is just stupid to not get vaccinated.]


Florida deaths...

 

[ToTBellHop]

My kids’ school tried to set up a post-travel quarantine this year. All of the parents said, ”fine. We are traveling a lot so plan on tons of remote school.” Then the teachers said, “hell-to-the-no!”

Our travel quarantine policy has ended.

 

[correcaminos]

That's literally the same thing I'm saying, so I'm not sure why you're arguing with me as if I'm saying the opposite.

No I didn't and if you ever bother to read my posts, it's a peeve when people pretend I said things I didn't. I never said that.

You want vaccines which is great, but you literally were arguing with me earlier about rhetoric that falls under covid deniers and what anti-vaxxers use. Not a fan of that since it causes me to reflect on losses that hurt like crazy. If you want people to not wear masks then push harder at making people want to vaccinate, don't give up.

 

[mikejs78]

I want people to state their end conditions for life returning to normal. I want them to say when they'd take the masks of the three year olds standing in line for Dumbo. When can a kindergarten teacher smile at her students as she welcomes them into the classroom? When can I fly from Boston to Honolulu without a piece of porous fabric strapped to my face for *11 hours*? When will we demand that companies *cough* stop using the pandemic as an excuse to continue offering poor service?

3-4 cases per 100k on a fairly consistent basis. Summer 2020 levels. I think we need to get 80% + fully vaxxed to achieve that.

What do you suggest? Masking and distancing and work-from-home and crappy customer service in perpetuity?

Of course not. Get everyone vaccinated. Require proof of vaccination in public life to go without a mask. Otherwise you mask up until you're vaccinated.

No, but the way we get to those levels will be through acquired immunity, whether via vaccination or infection. Masking and social distancing do not help us achieve endemicity, they just prolong the timeline.

Acquired immunity isn't effective except for the short term. One of the theories behind the two month waves.

Hmmm...Cases in California continue to uptick just slightly (or flatten depending on how you're looking at it). Wondering why the state has now diverged from Texas and Florida trends. All three states had a significant summer surge (Florida leading the way of course before someone gets mad at me for not pointing this out) around the same time. Texas and Florida continue to fall...wondering if CA will get back on track. I know some state leaders are already sounding the alarm on a winter surge. So they either anticipate this could be the beginning or they are pre-warning people in an attempt to prevent it? Interesting...

CA is an interesting state because it's so large, it's both northern and southern. Earlier surge was more southern, current is more northern. And even now it pales in comparison to FL and TX at their peaks.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Different forum, and a very multifaceted conversation there. Suffice it to say my previous voting history (never been “down ballot” one way or the other), and my feelings on the handling of this public health crisis - again from both of the overly vocal “sides” - is an evolving story.

Especially when it comes to our public health response, evolving data and situational awareness is going to warrant evolving attitudes. It hasn’t been and will continue to not be comfortable at times. At the darkest moments it downright stinks. That doesn’t mean we give up. Not this close to the finish line. Which we should be much closer to - 5-11 should be the “final push,” not the “hopefully they’ll be enough since adults can’t adult right now.”

Please, don’t take this as a personal attack. I’ve needed to remind myself or be reminded many times over, and will need to be reminded again. But, as Darwin taught us:
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself.

This dark crisis will pass. In many ways, it has let up significantly. But let’s push just a little more, and finally put this pandemic to bed.

I agree with all of this, but I think you're missing the pragmatic lens.

"Everyone who can get vaccinated, should" is an opinion, and I agree with it.

"Not everyone who can get vaccinated will" is a fact.

No matter how strongly we believe the Opinion, it doesn't change the Fact. "How do we get everyone vaccinated" presupposes that we CAN get everyone vaccinated, and we can't. People keep saying we need to reach the finish line before we can live our lives again, but we're never going to reach a finish line. That doesn't mean we should stop moving forward, it just means we don't need to wait for some magical threshold in order to get back to normal. We can get back to normal AND keep pushing vaccines. Saying "we can't get back to normal until everyone is vaccinated" is just admitting "we're never going back to normal."