Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Disstevefan1]

Your guess on Colin Powell is wrong.

Thanks for clarifying. COVID death noted.

 

[Disstevefan1]

You are literally jumping from one anti-vax point to another! At first, it was "vaccinated people still die" and now it's "the numbers are being inflated."

Just...no.

COVID death noted. Thanks.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

That doesn't work though. Guess who spread covid more than once in cases I know - asymptomatic younger populations who could not be vaccinated. That's the issue, feeling sick doesn't always stop spread.

Define "stop" and "spread."

No, transmission from mild and asymptomatic cases is not precisely zero, that's true. But it mitigates risk to a level that I'm perfectly comfortable with as we pivot to the endemic phase of this virus.

It would be great if 100% of people were vaccinated. It would be great if vaccines were 100% effective. But neither of those are true and never will be. Zero-COVID is not a viable path forward, and we need to stop rejecting every proposed return to normal scenario with "BUT THERE WILL BE TRANSMISSION!" Yeah. There will be. We're just going to have to deal with it.

 

[MrPromey]

No, you want to listen to the concerns and advice of health professionals and experts who agree with your opinions about how things should be handled.

My wife is a health professional and she agrees with me. So do others I know included a respected infectious disease specialist.

Just to clarify, when you say "health professional" does that mean doctor?

I know a good number of people who would call themselves "health professionals". One is a nurse, some work at a hospital in billing, some work the front desk and records in a couple of doctor offices, one is a pharmacist's assistant and almost none are what I'd call people who's opinions should be taken any more seriously than any other person's on the street.

Since you're using her to qualify your own opinions, it might be helpful to clarify her role to add weight to your argument.

 

[mmascari]

In this article it says Colin died from COVID complications, and they stated he was “fully vaccinated”. In the article it does say he had underlying conditions.

You are right, the article is misleading. I am not a Dr. but my guess it was his underlying conditions that killed him, not complications from COVID.

It makes you wonder, how many deaths were mislabeled “died from COVID complications” when in reality something else killed them, nothing to do with COVID or their vaccination status.

He did die from COVID. Please don't try an cherry pick one article that didn't specifically mention what other conditions he had and ignore the rest of the truth.

Colin Powell died from COVID complications. That is completely true. It's not some mislabeled death.
Colin Powell was fully vaccinated. That is also completely true.

Because of the underlying medical conditions Colin Powell had, the efficacy of the vaccine in his unique medical condition is NOT the same as the general public being fully vaccinated. This individual event cannot be used to extrapolate vaccination performance to the general public. It can be used as an example of vaccination performance for others that also have suppressed immune responses because of underlying medical conditions.

This isn't new. These people were all recommended for a third dose before anyone else, before any booster approval, specifically because it was thought that they didn't get the response and protection from the initial dose. Along with that this may still not have been enough, again specifically because their immune systems were already compromised.

None of this "makes me wonder" anything. You're clearly not a Doctor. I'm starting to wonder if you're the spokesperson for COVID.

 

[MrPromey]

Please remember to be civil in your responses - even if you have to figuratively bite your tongue. remember that it is not so much what you say, but how you say it, that may get a post deleted.

I don't understand how you haven't banned the entire lot of us yet.

 

[Disstevefan1]

He did die from COVID. Please don't try an cherry pick one article that didn't specifically mention what other conditions he had and ignore the rest of the truth.

Colin Powell died from COVID complications. That is completely true. It's not some mislabeled death.
Colin Powell was fully vaccinated. That is also completely true.

Because of the underlying medical conditions Colin Powell had, the efficacy of the vaccine in his unique medical condition is NOT the same as the general public being fully vaccinated. This individual event cannot be used to extrapolate vaccination performance to the general public. It can be used as an example of vaccination performance for others that also have suppressed immune responses because of underlying medical conditions.

This isn't new. These people were all recommended for a third dose before anyone else, before any booster approval, specifically because it was thought that they didn't get the response and protection from the initial dose. Along with that this may still not have been enough, again specifically because their immune systems were already compromised.

None of this "makes me wonder" anything. You're clearly not a Doctor. I'm starting to wonder if you're the spokesperson for COVID.

Thanks for the clarification. Another COVID death noted.

 

[JoeCamel]

I don't understand how you haven't banned the entire lot of us yet.

You know moms just can't do that, the bond is too strong......

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Those who refuse vaccines *and are sick* should stay home, just like people *who are sick* should have always stayed home. "Don't go into crowds of people when you're ill" is not a new standard of social behavior that started in March 2020. People always should have been doing that.

Well unless someone can tell they are infected prior to having symptoms, you're edit doesn't really work in reality. People can havid COVID-19 and spread it to others days before they show any symptoms. That's been known for well over a year at this point. Combine that with the tough-guy mindset some people have of, "I'm fine, it's just a little cough and headache," or "If you're vaccinated then what do you care if I'm sick?" and you have a messy situation. Many of the same people who now stubbornly refuse to get vaccinated were also the same ones demanding that other people modify their own behavior so that they could go on living their normal lives pretending nothing out of the ordinary was happening. Now the shoe is on the other foot with things like vaccine mandates for jobs, concerts, etc. and they're upset that the people who did the right thing for over a year actually want to be able to see the benefits of those actions without the unvaccinated continuing to mess it up for everyone by providing more and more opportunities for the virus to mutate into something the vaccines can't fend off.

 

[MrPromey]

You know moms just can't do that, the bond is too strong......

I hope she doesn't think I said that to get on her good side so she doesn't boot me.

... I'd like to imagine I'm sneaky enough to not get caught so blatantly but then again, moms know, don't they?..

 

[JoeCamel]

I hope she doesn't think I said that to get on her good side so she doesn't boot me.

... I'd like to imagine I'm sneaky enough to not get caught so blatantly but then again, moms know, don't they?..

Nah, you're her favorite, just ask her....

 

[DisneyCane]

Just to clarify, when you say "health professional" does that mean doctor?

I know a good number of people who would call themselves "health professionals". One is a nurse, some work at a hospital in billing, some work the front desk and records in a couple of doctor offices, one is a pharmacist's assistant and almost none are what I'd call people who's opinions should be taken any more seriously than any other person's on the street.

Since you're using her to qualify your own opinions, it might be helpful to clarify her role to add weight to your argument.

Yes. She has an MD from the University of Iowa. The others I refer to are also all doctors including the infectious disease specialist who has been interviewed by news media for COVID and other diseases.

 

[correcaminos]

Define "stop" and "spread."

No, transmission from mild and asymptomatic cases is not precisely zero, that's true. But it mitigates risk to a level that I'm perfectly comfortable with as we pivot to the endemic phase of this virus.

It would be great if 100% of people were vaccinated. It would be great if vaccines were 100% effective. But neither of those are true and never will be. Zero-COVID is not a viable path forward, and we need to stop rejecting every proposed return to normal scenario with "BUT THERE WILL BE TRANSMISSION!" Yeah. There will be. We're just going to have to deal with it.

2 friends died because asymptomatic child gave it to them prior to vaccines. I know quite a few families where a case was reported in school, kid exposed (all younger no masked) tested positive and then gave it to others in the house. So your idea of staying home when sick doesn't always work. That's my point.

We could have eliminated the virus and who knows if we will with vaccination. I honestly tire of this talking point in conjunction with other comments like yours as always points to the "just live our lives" and minimizing the disease.

Why are you even here? Posting stuff like that won't convince anyone except those who feel as you do.

 

[Lilofan]

You know moms just can't do that, the bond is too strong......

One item all members should know. You don't question a moderator's action

 

[correcaminos]

I am not a Dr. but I will take your word for it.

Chalk another COVID death for the "not fully vaccinated due to underlying conditions."

RIP General Powell. I thank him for his service.

What is fully vaccinated these days? Both shots plus a booster? I want to try to keep up?

He was a good man that's for sure.

Fully vaccinated is still 2 shots of mRNA and one of J&J. Boosters are suggested for some. Others not at all. I personally wouldn't even qualify.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Well unless someone can tell they are infected prior to having symptoms, you're edit doesn't really work in reality. People can havid COVID-19 and spread it to others days before they show any symptoms. That's been known for well over a year at this point. Combine that with the tough-guy mindset some people have of, "I'm fine, it's just a little cough and headache," or "If you're vaccinated then what do you care if I'm sick?" and you have a messy situation. Many of the same people who now stubbornly refuse to get vaccinated were also the same ones demanding that other people modify their own behavior so that they could go on living their normal lives pretending nothing out of the ordinary was happening. Now the shoe is on the other foot with things like vaccine mandates for jobs, concerts, etc. and they're upset that the people who did the right thing for over a year actually want to be able to see the benefits of those actions without the unvaccinated continuing to mess it up for everyone by providing more and more opportunities for the virus to mutate into something the vaccines can't fend off.

Everything you just said is true of the flu, common cold, and ten thousand other communicable diseases that are endemic in the population. COVID is not unique in that regard, it's just the next thing to add to the list.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

2 friends died because asymptomatic child gave it to them prior to vaccines.

I'm sorry to hear that. And that may have been a valid point if we were still "prior to vaccines." But we aren't, so it isn't.

I know quite a few families where a case was reported in school, kid exposed (all younger no masked) tested positive and then gave it to others in the house. So your idea of staying home when sick doesn't always work. That's my point.

Cool, and if all the people in the house were vaccinated themselves, I'm sure they were all fine.

We could have eliminated the virus and who knows if we will with vaccination.

No we couldn't! That was never possible!

Why are you even here? Posting stuff like that won't convince anyone except those who feel as you do.

You:

 

[lazyboy97o]

Everything you just said is true of the flu, common cold, and ten thousand other communicable diseases that are endemic in the population. COVID is not unique in that regard, it's just the next thing to add to the list.

And why not even try to add it to the list of things that no longer are?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Everything you just said is true of the flu, common cold, and ten thousand other communicable diseases that are endemic in the population. COVID is not unique in that regard, it's just the next thing to add to the list.

And it's been quite some time since any of those diseases you mentioned killed the number of people in this country that COVID-19 has killed. The flu also tends to be seasonal whereas COVID-19 has kept spreading and killing regardless of what the calendar says. We're at 19 months and counting where the number of deaths has exceeded the expected number every single week. From January 2017 until March 2020, there were 6 weeks total where deaths exceeded the expected total and those all occurred over the 6 weeks spanning late-December 2017 through late-January 2018 - and that was the deadliest flu season dating back to the 2010-2011 flu season (the oldest data available on the CDC's table). The estimated death count from that flue season? 61,000. So this virus is not just like the flu and certainly not just like a common cold.

And anyone who might think that COVID-19 deaths are overcounted, please feel free to explain the coincidental timing of excess deaths and this virus spreading throughout the US.

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.

www.cdc.gov

Past Seasons Estimated Influenza Disease Burden | CDC

These page includes information about the estimated burden of influenza from past seasons, including tables of the estimated influenza disease burden (and 95% credible interval [Cr I]) by age group.

www.cdc.gov

 

[correcaminos]

I'm sorry to hear that. And that may have been a valid point if we were still "prior to vaccines." But we aren't, so it isn't.


Cool, and if all the people in the house were vaccinated themselves, I'm sure they were all fine.


No we couldn't! That was never possible!


You:

View attachment 597615

Lame attack. Never said it I was ever welcoming of anti-vax rhetoric. In fact I said otherwise.

The comment about elimination is also not my opinion but based on others with more knowledge than me. People who fought everything even now make it impossible. Even then we will get to safe points like so many illnesses.

Not all people can be vaccinated and not all have immune systems to fight off even if vaccinated. We just got the 5-11 year olds, so please do not downplay anything above.