Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Lilofan]

If those were the only options, I might join the anti-vax crowd.

If you venture to the dark side, you should be updating your last will and testament.

 

[Lilofan]

And that's the problem. Everyone is busy focusing on these things yet they don't seem to care about how we got here in the first place. If we don't know how we got here, we don't know how to keep from repeating it again in a few years.

We have currently got a pandemic of the unvaccinated which is bring addressed in many forms. Does one think " emphasis how we got here in the first place ," is a more pressing issue? I strongly think not.

 

[JoeCamel]

Maybe they'll give it on sugar cubes like the polio vaccine I got in grade school.

That was prepping a generation for LSD

 

[DisneyCane]

Just like your definition change - even dictionaries that I know were not updated recently had your exact wording. I'm sure it's changed over years as no vaccines are 100% effective. So maybe it didn't change as recently as you think?

Up until recently, when you said the word vaccine, nobody outside of epidemiologists would think for a second that it meant that it is a substance that generates an immune response. Pretty much everybody thought that "vaccine" meant something you take that prevents a viral infection and eradicates the virus once enough people have been vaccinated.

It wasn't that long ago that Fauci the great was estimating what percentage of the population needed to be vaccinated in order to reach herd immunity. The COVID vaccines weren't sold as something primarily to reduce the severity of illness if you get infected. They were sold as a way to get rid of the SARS-CoV-2 virus via vaccine induced herd immunity.

Pretending that nothing has changed or pretending that the COVID vaccine is the same as other vaccines is disingenuous. It is not comparable to the flu shot before somebody says it. The flu shot is only designed to vaccinate against three strains each year. The reason you are still somewhat likely to "get the flu" even with the shot is that there are a lot more than three strains circulating and the shot doesn't protect much against the countless others with respect to preventing infection.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Up until recently, when you said the word vaccine, nobody outside of epidemiologists would think for a second that it meant that it is a substance that generates an immune response. Pretty much everybody thought that "vaccine" meant something you take that prevents a viral infection and eradicates the virus once enough people have been vaccinated.

It wasn't that long ago that Fauci the great was estimating what percentage of the population needed to be vaccinated in order to reach herd immunity. The COVID vaccines weren't sold as something primarily to reduce the severity of illness if you get infected. They were sold as a way to get rid of the SARS-CoV-2 virus via vaccine induced herd immunity.

Pretending that nothing has changed or pretending that the COVID vaccine is the same as other vaccines is disingenuous. It is not comparable to the flu shot before somebody says it. The flu shot is only designed to vaccinate against three strains each year. The reason you are still somewhat likely to "get the flu" even with the shot is that there are a lot more than three strains circulating and the shot doesn't protect much against the countless others with respect to preventing infection.

Again, the last person to die of smallpox had been vaccinated as a child. No vaccine is absolute. Other vaccines require boosters.

 

[sullyinMT]

Up until recently, when you said the word vaccine, nobody outside of epidemiologists would think for a second that it meant that it is a substance that generates an immune response. Pretty much everybody thought that "vaccine" meant something you take that prevents a viral infection and eradicates the virus once enough people have been vaccinated.

It wasn't that long ago that Fauci the great was estimating what percentage of the population needed to be vaccinated in order to reach herd immunity. The COVID vaccines weren't sold as something primarily to reduce the severity of illness if you get infected. They were sold as a way to get rid of the SARS-CoV-2 virus via vaccine induced herd immunity.

Pretending that nothing has changed or pretending that the COVID vaccine is the same as other vaccines is disingenuous. It is not comparable to the flu shot before somebody says it. The flu shot is only designed to vaccinate against three strains each year. The reason you are still somewhat likely to "get the flu" even with the shot is that there are a lot more than three strains circulating and the shot doesn't protect much against the countless others with respect to preventing infection.

Against wild covid, sure. But the vaccine is now fighting wild, delta, and - to a lesser extent in the US - lamda and mu. With a vaccine developed against one strain, we now have multiple. So comparing it to the flu shot is, perhaps, valid. And it’s protection against hospitalization and death is still remarkably strong, so we should still be touting the vaccines as our best tool out of this from a public health emergency viewpoint.

 

[correcaminos]

Up until recently, when you said the word vaccine, nobody outside of epidemiologists would think for a second that it meant that it is a substance that generates an immune response. Pretty much everybody thought that "vaccine" meant something you take that prevents a viral infection and eradicates the virus once enough people have been vaccinated.

It wasn't that long ago that Fauci the great was estimating what percentage of the population needed to be vaccinated in order to reach herd immunity. The COVID vaccines weren't sold as something primarily to reduce the severity of illness if you get infected. They were sold as a way to get rid of the SARS-CoV-2 virus via vaccine induced herd immunity.

Pretending that nothing has changed or pretending that the COVID vaccine is the same as other vaccines is disingenuous. It is not comparable to the flu shot before somebody says it. The flu shot is only designed to vaccinate against three strains each year. The reason you are still somewhat likely to "get the flu" even with the shot is that there are a lot more than three strains circulating and the shot doesn't protect much against the countless others with respect to preventing infection.

Pretending nothing has changed? You seriously say that to me - who does ebb and flow with how I feel and what I think? I am also seriously over talking down to people like this. I spoke of the vaccine definition not changing in the information I have (and to be fair, we loooong knew no vaccine was not 100% so maybe *you* thought what you wrote, I sure didn't). That's it, end of story. I speak nothing of Fauci or anything like that at all. To bring all this up to me when I spoke of one aspect of another's post is really not necessary.

FTR there is a quad shot for the flu - and that's the one I've gotten each year. The flu and covid are not the same beasts at all. So stop comparing the two too.

 

[correcaminos]

Again, the last person to die of smallpox had been vaccinated as a child. No vaccine is absolute. Other vaccines require boosters.

Lies - all lies! I did not just have to get my dtap booster in the last year and a half

 

[DisneyCane]

Against wild covid, sure. But the vaccine is now fighting wild, delta, and - to a lesser extent in the US - lamda and mu. With a vaccine developed against one strain, we now have multiple. So comparing it to the flu shot is, perhaps, valid. And it’s protection against hospitalization and death is still remarkably strong, so we should still be touting the vaccines as our best tool out of this from a public health emergency viewpoint.

I agree 100% with the bolded. It's just not what people understood a vaccine to be.

 

[Andrew C]

I agree 100% with the bolded. It's just not what people understood a vaccine to be.

This is a fair point. I think some may have pushed the original 90% as more than it is. I remember when some started freaking about breakthrough cases. And then we started going on about the viral load on the noses of vaccinated people. Then mask recommendations came back, due to delta? Or the viral load? Or the fact that not enough we’re getting vaccinated. I think certain individuals and the media did a disservice to the vaccine and the vaccine effort by escalating rare events and not being entirely clear and what the end goal is and what the vaccine was supposed to be. And what the vaccine actually does. I felt it was clear from what I was hearing but it seems others either had unrealistic expectations based on a bit of mixed signals from others. Or just their own doing.

 

[Chomama]

it is for me. I don’t want to wear one at all. I go to forget about the ills of the world not to have a constant reminder of them strapped to my face 1/2 the time.

I hope they’re dropped by next spring/summer

I’m sorry you want to escape the ills of the world at Disney. The sad fact is that covid doesn’t see an imaginary line on world drive. The real world comes along

 

[GoofGoof]

I agree 100% with the bolded. It's just not what people understood a vaccine to be.

Who cares. I honestly can’t be bothered with this type of nonsense anymore. Get the vaccine or be restricted from working and doing activities in public. End of story. No more debate, no more games, no more semantics. For people who are already vaccinated just live your life and be glad you were smart enough to make the right choice. The rest will be along eventually when they discover how much they will miss out on by not being vaccinated. It didn’t have to be this way, but it is what it is now. We are wasting our breath playing semantics games around what people understood or definitions of a vaccine. Pointless.

 

[correcaminos]

This is a fair point. I think some may have pushed the original 90% as more than it is. I remember when some started freaking about breakthrough cases. And then we started going on about the viral load on the noses of vaccinated people. Then mask recommendations came back, due to delta? Or the viral load? Or the fact that not enough we’re getting vaccinated. I think certain individuals and the media did a disservice to the vaccine and the vaccine effort by escalating rare events and not being entirely clear and what the end goal is it’s the vaccine was supposed to be. And what the vaccine actually does. I felt it was clear from what I was hearing but it seems others either had unrealistic expectations based on a bit of mixed signals from others. Or just their own doing.

I blame media. They did a bang up job of being dramatic in all ways. Too many put spins on what they hear and it just goes to crap.
Maybe I'm the weirdo, but I understood what vaccines did. I realized that when whooping cough was making a come back at a certain time in my kid's classes, that likely the immune response from the vaccine wasn't as strong and time to get boosters of it. I even did myself since I was around a bunch of kids.

So when they say 9x% effective from moderate or severe disease, I knew asymptomatic and mild would be more common. Some of us wouldn't have a clue we had it likely (especially hay fever season like now). We had horrible people reporting the results to us if we all just listened to news. We failed ourselves in many ways relying on them.

 

[hopemax]

And that's the problem. Everyone is busy focusing on these things yet they don't seem to care about how we got here in the first place. If we don't know how we got here, we don't know how to keep from repeating it again in a few years.

Speaking of which, I saw a tweet thread about an interesting study this week, re-examining the early timeline of SARS-COV-2 in Wuhan.

Before all the Greek letter variants, before the Italian version which took over the world and what we commonly associate as the "wild" strain upon which the vaccines were originally based, at the very beginning there were two identified lineages called Wuhan A and Wuhan B. In dark and geeky virology, evolutionary biology, geneticist corners people have been trying to determine which came first, as identifying which came first would help drill down into the how and where this originated. But with so few genetic variations, and limited amount of samples from the early days, while there is an assumption A came before B, the necessary level of certainty does not exist for any formal declaration. This study offers a third possibility. Neither.

That Wuhan A and Wuhan B actually share a common ancestor within the animal reservoir. An infected herd, such as a shipment from a farm to a market, infected multiple humans around the same time, and one of those humans led to the A lineage, and one of those humans led to the B lineage. One of the implications being that when A leads to B or B leads to A, the original animal / human transmission Patient 0 had to be some minimum time in the past. But if A & B happen independently, the timeline for Patient 0, Patient 0's could be later than the current estimates.

The study authors note they originally thought the idea of multiple introductions was "bonkers" and they only started coming around to that idea after being unable to adequately answer questions about how A begat B or vice versa, and by re-examining how the virus came to the US. The first verified infected person arrived Jan 15, 2020 in the Seattle area. But future genetic examination revealed that this person was not responsible for setting off the chain of infections that brought the area to national prominence with the Lifecare of Kirkland situation. That outbreak, originated via an unknown person who arrived, probably around February 1st. Acknowledging the possibility of a multiple introduction scenario opened the mental door to consider that maybe the original cross-species event happened similarly.

The study makes no conclusions about origin, and mostly focuses on the lack of "transitional" elements between A & B, but the authors say they have developed a process to test their hypothesis that Lineage A and Lineage B were the result of multiple introductions and not a transition from one to the other. And they are still looking for verifiable, transitional genomes between A & B that would indicate a single introduction. So as they say, stay tuned...

But this type of science is methodical, slow and doesn't play out in the main stream media (nor should it). But the assumption that "no one cares how this got started" is inaccurate. Only a small percentage of people have the skills and knowledge to actually answer that question, and they have been doing their business the whole time. This study is only one example of the type of work that is occurring.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Follow him to your heart's content. You'll just have to do 180% turns all the time.

He's spent most of his career as an administrator/bureaucrat. He should learn to say "I don't know" or "we don't have enough information yet" instead of taking educated guesses all the time and then contradicting himself when the data is analyzed a few weeks or months later.

He's also in his 80s. Nobody maintains their full mental capacity at that age. If he's the word's best expert on COVID then we're in trouble.

By your response I can tell that you never did read about his accomplishments and what he has done.Spent most of his career as a administrator/bureaucrat? Are you kidding?
You can’t find a cure for anything being a bureaucrat. You can’t, along with his colleagues find a cure for Vasculitis which no one dies from anymore because of his work. Drug trials were changed for people in the 80’s for HIV because of him, saving countless lives. I could go on and on and I guess I should but you probably stopped reading already.
Then to say he’s in his 80’s so he’s not capable is just another ridiculous statement. To assume someone’s faculties are gone because they are older is unbelievable. Put everyone into a tight little box doesn’t work.

 

[Patcheslee]

That's just "wonderful", now we have to add vegan smoothie to the list along with bus and not enhancing night vision.

When will it ever end!

I tried a vegan smoothie once, resulted in my stomach reversing the digestive process and expelling said smoothie back out of my mouth

 

[MisterPenguin]

Yes it sucks when the vaccine turns out to be a pre infection theraputic.

CDC changed its definition of vaccine.
Previous:
Vaccine– “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease.”
New definition:
Vaccine– “a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases.”
Why did CDC changed its definition? Is it that they are seeing that the Covid vaccine was not matching the older definition. Its not really doing that great job of producing immunity? Polio vaccine, smallpox vaccine gives immunity, while the Covid vaccines does not.

We found the latest anti-vaxx talking point!!

The claim is: Vaccines don't prevent infection.

Fact check: 100% TRUE!!!!

It's something I've been posting in this thread for over a year. Vaccines aren't magic. They prepare your body to fight off an infection that can seriously damage you or kill you. They absolutely DO NOT PREVENT INFECTION.

The use of the word 'immunity' in the past was a mistake. You may be almost immune from **dying** from the disease, thanks to the vaccine, but you're not immune from the disease infecting you and starting to replicate.

Vaccines help your body fight off the infection nearly immediately, because you already have the antibodies and the biological factories that produce those specific antibodies primed to immediately go into overdrive.

Fun fact: If your body didn't have this antibody-system, a common cold would kill you. Every viral infection would kill you. The billions of bacteria on your skin and in your gut would kill you.

But some microbes are way more dangerous that others, like Small Pox or COVID-19. So, it's good to get your body ready to fight them off in case you ever became infected with them.

So, correcting the "immunity" language to "stimulate immune response" is more correct and stops people thinking that vaccines are magic. In case anyone didn't know: Vaccines aren't magic.

And calling vaccines a pre-infection-therapeutic is kinda correct. Isn't great, tho, that we have a pre-infection-therapeutic to stop a deadly disease?

But, let's now get to the implied claim:

Because vaccines don't stop infections from happening, we've been lied to about the 'immunity' stuff!!!​

Fact Check: FALSE

The reality is you failed basic biology.

 

[DCBaker]

"Florida on Thursday reported 12,386 more COVID-19 cases and 1,296 additional deaths to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, according to Miami Herald calculations of CDC data.

All but 19 of the newly reported deaths, about 99%, occurred after Aug. 11, according to the Herald analysis. About 60% of the newly reported died in the past two weeks, the analysis showed. The majority of deaths happened during Florida’s latest surge in COVID-19 cases, fueled by the delta variant.

In the past seven days, on average, the state has added 338 deaths and 14,276 cases each day, according to Herald calculations of CDC data."

"There were 13,034 people hospitalized for COVID-19 in Florida, according to the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services’ Thursday report. This data is reported from 259 Florida hospitals. That is 418 fewer patients than Wednesday’s report, which also had 24 more reporting hospitals.

COVID-19 patients take up 22.36% of all inpatient beds in the latest report’s hospitals, compared to 24.34% in the previous day’s reporting hospitals.

Of the people hospitalized in Florida, 3,049 people were in intensive care unit beds, a decrease of 8. That represents 46.03% of the state’s ICU hospital beds from 259 hospitals reporting data, compared to 46.2% the previous day."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article254107753.html

 

[SteveAZee]

I agree 100% with the bolded. It's just not what people understood a vaccine to be.

Some people believe the world is flat, too... it's hard to change people's minds once they've been told or decided something. Also, this just in:

"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled"

 

[DisneyCane]

Who cares. I honestly can’t be bothered with this type of nonsense anymore. Get the vaccine or be restricted from working and doing activities in public. End of story. No more debate, no more games, no more semantics. For people who are already vaccinated just live your life and be glad you were smart enough to make the right choice. The rest will be along eventually when they discover how much they will miss out on by not being vaccinated. It didn’t have to be this way, but it is what it is now. We are wasting our breath playing semantics games around what people understood or definitions of a vaccine. Pointless.

It isn't pointless. I just got off the phone with my friend who was hesitant and then finally got J&J for him and his wife. Well, his wife has mild COVID and he said the vaccines are BS and don't work.

They were sold as making you immune, not as reducing severity of illness. That change in semantics is going to make it harder to reach the still hesitant. It's hard to justify forcing people to get it if it doesn't prevent infection and spread in a high percentage of people.