Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Parker in NYC]

 

[GoofGoof]

It isn't pointless. I just got off the phone with my friend who was hesitant and then finally got J&J for him and his wife. Well, his wife has mild COVID and he said the vaccines are BS and don't work.

They were sold as making you immune, not as reducing severity of illness. That change in semantics is going to make it harder to reach the still hesitant. It's hard to justify forcing people to get it if it doesn't prevent infection and spread in a high percentage of people.

I think you are missing my point. I’m not interested in convincing people or reaching them anymore. That ship has sailed. It didn’t work. Every time you “reached” someone they just changed the argument. The same people who need convincing will be told they have to find a new job, can’t go on a cruise or go to a theme park or a ballgame unless they are vaccinated. How they feel and what they think they know is not relevant. You have 2 choices take the vaccine or face the consequences of not being able to do certain things. There’s no debating it, no arguing semantics and no moving goalposts. The choice is yours (not yours specifically since you already chose but the unvaccinated).

I preferred a different path than this. I wanted people to decide for themselves. That plan failed. I bought into the hype that if we dropped masks for fully vaccinated people we would see a wave of new people getting vaccinated. It was a total fraud and a lie. The daily vaccination numbers actually declined. Back in the Spring when I said I preferred a plan where we don’t require vaccines or use vaccine passports for anyone and we let people decide for themselves I was asked by some people here what happens if we don’t get enough vaccinated that way. My answer back then was we move to plan B. We are on plan B now. Plan B involves vaccine passports for certain large group activities and vaccine requirements for workplaces, colleges and eventually for children’s schools.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It isn't pointless. I just got off the phone with my friend who was hesitant and then finally got J&J for him and his wife. Well, his wife has mild COVID and he said the vaccines are BS and don't work.

They were sold as making you immune, not as reducing severity of illness. That change in semantics is going to make it harder to reach the still hesitant. It's hard to justify forcing people to get it if it doesn't prevent infection and spread in a high percentage of people.

The world shouldn’t bend to people’s ignorance. You wonder why people believe nonsense while continuing to validate nonsense.

 

[DisneyCane]

I think you are missing my point. I’m not interested in convincing people or reaching them anymore. That ship has sailed. It didn’t work. Every time you “reached” someone they just changed the argument. The same people who need convincing will be told they have to find a new job, can’t go on a cruise or go to a theme park or a ballgame unless they are vaccinated. How they feel and what they think they know is not relevant. You have 2 choices take the vaccine or face the consequences of not being able to do certain things. There’s no debating it, no arguing semantics and no moving goalposts. The choice is yours (not yours specifically since you already chose but the unvaccinated).

I preferred a different path than this. I wanted people to decide for themselves. That plan failed. I bought into the hype that if we dropped masks for fully vaccinated people we would see a wave of new people getting vaccinated. It was a total fraud and a lie. The daily vaccination numbers actually declined. Back in the Spring when I said I preferred a plan where we don’t require vaccines or use vaccine passports for anyone and we let people decide for themselves I was asked by some people here what happens if we don’t get enough vaccinated that way. My answer back then was we move to plan B. We are on plan B now. Plan B involves vaccine passports for certain large group activities and vaccine requirements for workplaces, colleges and eventually for children’s schools.

How do you justify the essentially forced vaccination you are suggesting if the vaccines don't prevent spread to a high degree and don't lead to herd immunity?

If the vaccines just reduce severity then it should be a personal choice. Set a maximum capacity for unvaccinated COVID patients in each hospital and once that level is reached if you aren't vaccinated you are SOL. Your choice to take the risk.

If getting X% vaccinated would end COVID I'd be on board with what you suggest. It seems that it doesn't work that way.

 

[disneygeek90]

How do you justify the essentially forced vaccination you are suggesting if the vaccines don't prevent spread to a high degree and don't lead to herd immunity?

If the vaccines just reduce severity then it should be a personal choice. Set a maximum capacity for unvaccinated COVID patients in each hospital and once that level is reached if you aren't vaccinated you are SOL. Your choice to take the risk.

If getting X% vaccinated would end COVID I'd be on board with what you suggest. It seems that it doesn't work that way.

You sure?

 

[Touchdown]

How do you justify the essentially forced vaccination you are suggesting if the vaccines don't prevent spread to a high degree and don't lead to herd immunity?

If the vaccines just reduce severity then it should be a personal choice. Set a maximum capacity for unvaccinated COVID patients in each hospital and once that level is reached if you aren't vaccinated you are SOL. Your choice to take the risk.

If getting X% vaccinated would end COVID I'd be on board with what you suggest. It seems that it doesn't work that way.

Because they do significantly reduce spread but it’s not black and white. You can still get it, but it’s far less likely and if you do odds are it will be mild and shorter then if you weren’t vaccinated.

 

[GoofGoof]

How do you justify the essentially forced vaccination you are suggesting if the vaccines don't prevent spread to a high degree and don't lead to herd immunity?

If the vaccines just reduce severity then it should be a personal choice. Set a maximum capacity for unvaccinated COVID patients in each hospital and once that level is reached if you aren't vaccinated you are SOL. Your choice to take the risk.

If getting X% vaccinated would end COVID I'd be on board with what you suggest. It seems that it doesn't work that way.

I don’t have to justify anything. That’s the whole point. Nobody is being forced to be vaccinated.

• If you want to work for Disney you have to be vaccinated.
• If you want to go on certain cruises you have to be vaccinated
• If you want to go to certain sporting events you have to be vaccinated.
• If you want to go to a bar in NYC you have to be vaccinated.
• If you want to go to certain colleges you have to be vaccinated

People need to choose what’s more important to them being unvaccinated or doing those things. The more stuff that’s added to the list the more people choose the vaccine. Eventually we will get to the point where enough people are vaccinated. This is the slow and hard way but it’s where we are at.

 

[GoofGoof]

You sure?

Don‘t let your facts get in the way of a good story

Yes, the vaccines work really, really well. Same as they always have. The fact that people are still arguing they don’t work is exactly why I say we‘ve reached the point where discussion is pointless. Take it or don’t, but don’t complain when your lifestyle and job prospects are limited.

 

[Lilofan]

How do you justify the essentially forced vaccination you are suggesting if the vaccines don't prevent spread to a high degree and don't lead to herd immunity?

If the vaccines just reduce severity then it should be a personal choice. Set a maximum capacity for unvaccinated COVID patients in each hospital and once that level is reached if you aren't vaccinated you are SOL. Your choice to take the risk.

If getting X% vaccinated would end COVID I'd be on board with what you suggest. It seems that it doesn't work that way.

It will be ones personal choice where to spend their money and or work in the dwindling amount of places that accept the unvaccinated .

 

[DisneyCane]

I don’t have to justify anything. That’s the whole point. Nobody is being forced to be vaccinated.

• If you want to work for Disney you have to be vaccinated.
• If you want to go on certain cruises you have to be vaccinated
• If you want to go to certain sporting events you have to be vaccinated.
• If you want to go to a bar in NYC you have to be vaccinated.
• If you want to go to certain colleges you have to be vaccinated

People need to choose what’s more important to them being unvaccinated or doing those things. The more stuff that’s added to the list the more people choose the vaccine. Eventually we will get to the point where enough people are vaccinated. This is the slow and hard way but it’s where we are at.

But what do you mean by enough vaccinated? Enough for what if they don't lead to herd immunity?

 

[LaughingGravy]

I blame media. They did a bang up job of being dramatic in all ways. Too many put spins on what they hear and it just goes to crap.
Maybe I'm the weirdo, but I understood what vaccines did. I realized that when whooping cough was making a come back at a certain time in my kid's classes, that likely the immune response from the vaccine wasn't as strong and time to get boosters of it. I even did myself since I was around a bunch of kids.

So when they say 9x% effective from moderate or severe disease, I knew asymptomatic and mild would be more common. Some of us wouldn't have a clue we had it likely (especially hay fever season like now). We had horrible people reporting the results to us if we all just listened to news. We failed ourselves in many ways relying on them.

I also don't discount the reduction in subject matter taught in schools in favor of easier subjects and teaching to the test in the case of SATs for a lot of high school kids as a major change from the time I was in Jr. and Sr. HS.

The instant gratification of immediate news in the media has a lot to do with it, as Helenabear mentioned above about being dramatic.
It used to be there were newspapers coming once a day and an evening newscast at 5 or 6 or a late one at 11 pm.
There was time to gather, have a consensus by editors, and present among a few channels. There weren't opinion pieces by talking heads on split screens arguing and goading one another for that zinger to make the next headline of "Did you hear what so and so said to/about to the other so and so after the first so and so "fired back".

Every little thing someone has to say is now 'Breaking News" in big red letters with zooming sound effects besides the running banner below the talking head.

I came from parents with a teaching and science background, so I lucked out besides. It wasn't a major topic, but vaccines among other things came up in family conversation namely when the "swine flu" was a thing and the vaccine guns were new. If anyone wasn't vaccinated, we as kids, never knew about it. There may have been opt outs, but if so, they were kept on the QT. Different times.
I distinctly remember being vaccinated at school in the auditorium. I was looking at the pattern in the stage curtain when the shot came.

 

[Heelz2315]

I’m sorry you want to escape the ills of the world at Disney. The sad fact is that covid doesn’t see an imaginary line on world drive. The real world comes along

I totally understand that and wear a mask when and where I'm required to do so. Also, if I'm paying Di$ney dollars for a vacation I'd like it to be enjoyable. If everyone had gotten vaxxed when they should we may not be in this mess. My patience for those who refuse is over.

 

[DCBaker]

The 14-day rolling positivity rate for Orange County via Mayor Demings is 14.32%.

Deming notes that since Aug 30th, Orange County has recorded 191 deaths.

 

[DCBaker]

Dr. Pino reports of those 191 deaths, the ages ranged from 29-100.

91 had known pre-exisiting conditions.

41 were fully vaccinated. 9 were partially vaccinated. 2 were past due on their second dose.

 

[disneygeek90]

Boom goes the dynamite!

National COVID-19 Preparedness Plan | The White House

Today, the U.S. government is releasing the National COVID-19 Preparedness Plan – which will enable America to move forward safely, sustaining

www.whitehouse.gov

Theme Parks?

Calling on Large Entertainment Venues to Require Proof of Vaccination or Testing for Entry​

The President’s plan calls on entertainment venues like sports arenas, large concert halls, and other venues where large groups of people gather to require that their patrons be vaccinated or show a negative test for entry.

 

[willtravel]

anti vaccine is now essential to ones political belief in this country

I know of 3 people who are not vaccinated and it has nothing to do with political belief. Just the shot itself. Stop with the politics bs.

 

[Andrew C]

I'm not super familiar with how Federal plans would affect State plans or who has the upper hand to make the final call.

Not to get too political but based on the fact that USA is currently getting ready to sue TX, I'm interested to see what happens with such clashing perspectives for vaccine mandates.

Much of the WH plan is unenforceable or just a “we are asking you please to do this..”. Outside of the federal workers mandate, where they have power. The Medicare/Medicaid workers one is interesting.
The texas thing has to due with constitutionality of a state law.

 

[Touchdown]

I'm not super familiar with how Federal plans would affect State plans or who has the upper hand to make the final call.

Not to get too political but based on the fact that USA is currently suing TX, I'm interested to see what happens with such clashing perspectives for vaccine mandates.

You missed the big part:

1. New OSHA regulations will require any employer that employs 100 people or more to mandate vaccinations or set up weekly testing.

2. All healthcare workers in any facility that accepts Medicare/Medicaid will be mandated to be vaccinated.

3 All fed contractors will be mandated to be vaccinated

4. All public schools will mandate employee vaccinations.

 

[Touchdown]

Much of the WH plan is unenforceable or just a “we are asking you please to do this..”. Outside of the federal workers mandate.
The texas thing has to due with constitutionality of a state law.

No it will be a requirement for accepting federal funds, and OSHA regulations. Those aren’t unenforceable.

 

[DisneyCane]

Dr. Pino reports of those 191 deaths, the ages ranged from 29-100.

91 had known pre-exisiting conditions.

41 were fully vaccinated. 9 were partially vaccinated. 2 were past due on their second dose.

41 out of 191 deaths being fully vaccinated is not exactly encouraging. Especially with maybe 60% fully vaccinated in OC. It's still a pretty big reduction but nothing like the near 100% protection from death that it seemed like the vaccines provided a few months back.