Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

I do think the decision for an employer to go this route isn’t as black and white as some want to make it out to be.
And we need to be careful about when the government may want to overstep.

It has nothing to do with the government. We have to avoid seeing this as political, it’s standard workplace law that’s been around for decades and not controversial in any way. All employers have the right to make their own requirements for employment as long as they don’t discriminate against a protected class. I had to take a drug test to work at my company. I had no choice and even though pot is legal in many places they still are allowed to not hire me or fire me for using legal or illegal drugs. I can’t show up at my office with a firearm. It’s legal for me to own and carry one but my employer has the right to prohibit me from bringing it to work. We all freely accept these terms as a condition of employment and this is no different. Don’t be fooled by the politicians and talking heads who are attempting to make this political because division sells when campaigning and when running a cable news network.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Strange comparison…

Why? Both are personal choices regarding what one puts into their own bodies. Of course, both drunk driving and being unvaxxed also cause increased danger to the people around the individual making the choice. Is it still a personal choice, or does the welfare of others change the nature of the choice?

 

[Andrew C]

It has nothing to do with the government. We have to avoid seeing this as political, it’s standard workplace law that’s been around for decades and not controversial in any way. All employers have the right to make their own requirements for employment as long as they don’t discriminate against a protected class. I had to take a drug test to work at my company. I had no choice and even though pot is legal in many places they still are allowed to not hire me or fire me for using legal or illegal drugs. I can’t show up at my office with a firearm. It’s legal for me to own and carry one but my employer has the right to prohibit me from bringing it to work. We all freely accept these terms as a condition of employment and this is no different. Don’t be fooled by the politicians and talking heads who are attempting to make this political because division sells when campaigning and when running a cable news network.

I know it has nothing to with the government. Just saying I want to keep it that way. Wasn’t being political or thinking of anyone in particular. Just a general statement.

 

[SammyMF]

Want a very harsh statement? And a totally cynical one?

Different states are handling this all in different ways. Some are being proactive... some say too much at times and they might have a reasonable point. But others insist on doing nothing, and preventing others from doing otherwise, for strictly political reasons. Nobody wants to take things too far nor shut down the whole country a second time. But in the end, as a society as a whole in the US not individuals, choose to take a vaccine or choose not to. Those that chose to, also do everything else needed to protect yourself and your family. Then let Darwin sort it out.

That was not in any way a thoughtful nor considerate statement. And an unabashedly uncaring one. But if a significant portion of the population refuses to do anything. Even protect itself. And they then suffer the consequences then so be it. Back in the day there were a lot of people that still refused to wear seat belts after they were mandated over 'personal freedoms'. And if they died because of it? Too bad for them. One less driver to worry about on the highway.

 

[Andrew C]

Why? Both are personal choices regarding what one puts into their own bodies. Of course, both drunk driving and being unvaxxed also cause increased danger to the people around the individual making the choice. Is it still a personal choice, or does the welfare of others change the nature of the choice?

Comparing laws around driving a vehicle and making a vaccine an absolute requirement to be a resident/citizen (even when you are already one) is a strange comparison. Making it a requirement to be a general participant in society doesn’t sit well to me. More specific requirements around areas like employer and business rights, public schools, etc is a bit different.

 

[LittleBuford]

Want a very harsh statement? And a totally cynical one?

Different states are handling this all in different ways. Some are being proactive... some say too much at times and they might have a reasonable point. But others insist on doing nothing, and preventing others from doing otherwise, for strictly political reasons. Nobody wants to take things too far nor shut down the whole country a second time. But in the end, as a society as a whole in the US not individuals, choose to take a vaccine or choose not to. Those that chose to, also do everything else needed to protect yourself and your family. Then let Darwin sort it out.

That was not in any way a thoughtful nor considerate statement. And an unabashedly uncaring one. But if a significant portion of the population refuses to do anything. Even protect itself. And they then suffer the consequences then so be it. Back in the day there were a lot of people that still refused to wear seat belts after they were mandated over 'personal freedoms'. And if they died because of it? Too bad for them. One less driver to worry about on the highway.

Posts like this break my heart. I have more sympathy for those who have fallen prey to anti-vax misinformation than I do for those who display this sort of heartless and callous attitude.

 

[hopemax]

Ugh.

We’ve been suddenly visited by members I recognize from the now nuked political board.

I hope the rest of us don’t get punished with a closed thread after all this time because of where the new arrivals are dragging the conversation after we’ve been given so much leeway but asked to refrain from certain topics.

 

[LittleBuford]

We’ve been suddenly visited by members I recognize from the now nuked political board.

I hope the rest of us don’t get punished with a closed thread after all this time because of where the new arrivals are dragging the conversation after we’ve been given so much leeway but asked to refrain from certain topics.

As a veteran of that board, I can assure you that the controversial new arrivals aren't from there (unless they've changed their usernames).

 

[Casper Gutman]

Comparing laws around driving a vehicle and making a vaccine an absolute requirement to be a resident/citizen (even when you are already one) is a strange comparison. Making it a requirement to be a general participant in society doesn’t sit well to me. More specific requirements around areas like employer and business rights, public schools, etc is a bit different.

Honestly, I don't disagree with this at all. If the choice is "Get vaxxed or abstain from society" - that's fine. I'd rather private companies enforce vaccine mandates - although this requires that state governments allow them to do so. I just find the present moment a very odd one in which to become obsessed with incursions on (what they perceive to be) "personal liberty" when more egregious impositions have passed largely unnoted for decades.

 

[Andrew C]

I just find the present moment a very odd one in which to become obsessed with incursions on (what they perceive to be) "personal liberty" when more egregious impositions have passed largely unnoted for decades.

Hmm. Maybe your debate is within someone else then. I must have injected myself into the middle of a conservation without looking back at the full context. Lol

 

[lazyboy97o]

Comparing laws around driving a vehicle and making a vaccine an absolute requirement to be a resident/citizen (even when you are already one) is a strange comparison. Making it a requirement to be a general participant in society doesn’t sit well to me. More specific requirements around areas like employer and business rights, public schools, etc is a bit different.

There is a whole list of vaccines that are effectively required to participate in society. Because of that there is now a list of diseases that have been eradicated, eliminating or drastically reduced.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Posts like this break my heart. I have more sympathy for those who have fallen prey to anti-vax misinformation than I do for those who display this sort of heartless and callous attitude.

Some innocent people of good faith have fallen prey to misinformation. Many more have sought it out because it reinforces what they want to believe or, even more often, because it hurts or irritates people they hate. Many "misguided" have absolutely no desire to understand the truth.

The pro-vax crowd has been incredibly patient. In the face of hundreds of thousands dead and an devastated economy, they have tried to reach the misguided in every way possible. After all that, it seems extraordinary to condemn their frustration and not the often misanthropic intransigence of the anti-vaxxers.

 

[Polkadotdress]

An insightful article outlining some of the hospital shortages that are starting to occur, including a specific situation here in FL where a wife is desperately trying to find ECMO for her husband here, anywhere, in the state.

Also, interestingly there is a quote at the end from the CDC director saying there is now "no wait" between having Covid and getting the vaccine. She says get it ASAP.

'All the beds are taken up by Covid victims': Hospitals in the South are running out of space or staff

Covid-19 hospitalizations are reaching all-time highs in parts of the South, with some patients unable to get the care they would normally receive.

www.cnn.com

 

[Heppenheimer]

This thread needs some decompression. I posted a photo of our new girl a month ago, here she is now.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No. Not really.

Yes, really. Smallpox, polio, diphtheria, rubella and even measles have all been eliminated from the US. Cases of mumps and chickenpox have been greatly reduced due to required vaccines.

 

[Andrew C]

Yes, really. Smallpox, polio, diphtheria, rubella and even measles have all been eliminated from the US. Cases of mumps and chickenpox have been greatly reduced due to required vaccines.

I’m not aware that any of those are actually required to be resident or citizen of this country.
To attend public schools I believe so, yes. I think one can get an exemption though.

there are plenty of silly people who opt their kids out of vaccines.

 

[LittleBuford]

Some innocent people of good faith have fallen prey to misinformation. Many more have sought it out because it reinforces what they want to believe or, even more often, because it hurts or irritates people they hate. Many "misguided" have absolutely no desire to understand the truth.

These are largely assumptions on your part. They serve to vilify and dehumanise those who oppose or fear the vaccines, thereby justifying the “Let them die” line of thinking. It becomes much harder to say such things when you acknowledge the humanity of the people you’re talking about.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I’m not aware that any of those are actually required to be resident or citizen of this country.
To attend public schools I believe so, yes. I think one can get an exemption though.

there are plenty of silly people who opt their kids out of vaccines.

My Canadian wife needed to show proof of several vaccines when she applied for permanent residence in the US, so yes, they are required.

 

[GoofGoof]

I know it has nothing to with the government. Just saying I want to keep it that way. Wasn’t being political or thinking of anyone in particular. Just a general statement.

This is my point though. There’s an attempt being made to make employers requiring vaccinations into a political issue wrapped up in everything else Covid when it’s absolutely not. The fact that you brought up government overreach in the context of that conversation is troubling to me. How long until one of our “head in the sand” leaders attempts an executive order to stop employers from being allowed to require vaccination of employees….then we have actual government overreach. Just like the overreach that is occurring when the government is prohibiting businesses from requiring vaccination. But how many people are opposed to that overreach? Hmmm…seems like a double standard .

I know that employment law is generally not as easy to circumvent, but it‘s not inconceivable that there’s threats made to pull state funding or tax breaks from companies that won’t comply.

 

[Archie123]

Bottom line - companies are legally permitted to require staff to get vaccinated. If staff will not comply by the deadline, then start looking for another job - to get to the point.

And once the FDA give their full approval on the vaccine you will see a lot more vaccination requirements from businesses which is going to be a very good thing.