Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
If not postpone, at least mandatory vaccination. I just don’t understand something as big as the Olympics, where everyday they keep saying they are going all out to keep the athletes safe, does not require vaccinations. So it’s a lie when they say they are doing everything possible. Understandable if for some reason you can’t get it, all others should be required. It shouldn’t be..” well everyone is young and shouldn’t have a problem even if they catch it”. Sure they probably wouldn’t have a problem but they still might.. and besides if they catch it most likely won’t compete anyway because of quarantine so where’s the harm.
In the countries with limited vaccine supply how do you justify vaccinating the Olympic team ahead of much more vulnerable people? This isn't an issue for athletes from the USA but it is a huge issue for athletes from many other countries.
 

LaughingGravy

Well-Known Member
That was their choice, if you believe in free will and a free society you have to accept that a certain amount of people are going to choose to do something stupid. However, eventually you have to pay for your decisions.
In the case of a family leader, they may "forbid" family members under their roof to be vaccinated. Depending on the situation, there are often unfortunate victims of this.
Those are the people I feel bad for. There are some very controlling people in some households.
 

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
In the countries with limited vaccine supply how do you justify vaccinating the Olympic team ahead of much more vulnerable people? This isn't an issue for athletes from the USA but it is a huge issue for athletes from many other countries.
That would be a issue but one that can be sort out I think. What everyone needs to realize is that COVID can knock anyone out of their dreams if not all is vaccinated. It’s just not the young healthy person that got it and now needs to drop out of the Olympics, it’s the athletes that the person also could have got it from themYour taking down everyone’s dreams now for selfish reasons.
Mandatory or don’t have them is the only way.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Of course they don't! I find it interesting that both you and @DisneyCane both used the same window analogy. So how would this work, exactly?

A theoretical lab worker is exposed in a lab, but doesn't know it. They do normal things like travel back and forth between home and work. It's China, not the US, so likely public transportation. They visit cafes and restaurants. Shops and markets. They visit their friends, they're with their family and co-workers.

I would expect they would leave infection footprints. Some at the home side, some at the work side, some random infections in between because of encounters on public transport, in a cafe/restaurant, a friend or co-worker that lives in a different part of the city. Secondary and tertiary cluster spots, connected by the route they normally travel.

It's not just about where the virus clustered. But where it *didn't.* Yes, it makes sense that an infected person would spread the virus "near their home." But how did they manage to stop infections from occurring elsewhere in their daily activities and the encounters they would have had?

Not to mention that fact that this would probably have had to happen with two workers. Two lab workers getting infected with two different lineages, and spreading it in two different markets.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Not to mention that fact that this would probably have had to happen with two workers. Two lab workers getting infected with two different lineages, and spreading it in two different markets.
You need that same coincidence with a transmission outside the lab. Two people, in the same city, at nearly the same time being infected. Or one lineage is older and it quickly split.

Given that a big hurdle has been identifying who is infected and the weird ways it spreads (households without spread versus one person infecting dozens). I’m not sure why that couldn’t happen at the beginning. We saw undetected community spread elsewhere after it was known that there was a new virus, so why could there not have been undetected (or suppressed) community spread at the very beginning when nobody was looking for a new virus?
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
You need that same coincidence with a transmission outside the lab. Two people, in the same city, at nearly the same time being infected. Or one lineage is older and it quickly split.

Given that a big hurdle has been identifying who is infected and the weird ways it spreads (households without spread versus one person infecting dozens). I’m not sure why that couldn’t happen at the beginning. We saw undetected community spread elsewhere after it was known that there was a new virus, so why could there not have been undetected (or suppressed) community spread at the very beginning when nobody was looking for a new virus?

Yeah, but what is more likely, two leaks from lab designed to prevent leaks, or two infections for a wet market that is basically an infection factory?
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
In the countries with limited vaccine supply how do you justify vaccinating the Olympic team ahead of much more vulnerable people? This isn't an issue for athletes from the USA but it is a huge issue for athletes from many other countries.
It's too late now, but the US could have provided vaccines for every athlete, coach, team support, whatever, for every person from every country competing in the games. Plus all the reporters and Olympic staff too.

Use that US excess supply. Sure, it could be argued that instead of this we should give doses to countries in need and better targeted. But, in the scope of US supply and donations to other countries, would this number of doses really matter that much? What is it, 20K people?

Think of the marketing opportunity. US Official Vaccine Sponsor of the 2020* Olympics. They could have run ads galore with all the different teams and countries about how great getting the vaccine is. Be like superstar/team/underdog/touching story athlete and get your vaccination today!

Before someone says "US Vaccine Contracts prevent this", which vaccine provider wouldn't want the positive press of being an Olympic Vaccine supplier or more importantly, which would want the bad press of denying vaccine to Olympic athletes.

The Olympic committee would probably want a check to use that marketing. :eek:

Hindsight is wonderful, a missed opportunity. :(
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
No denial he said it, no apology for saying it. I’m beginning to wonder if he wasn’t one of the people posting here back when “It’s just old people who are dying” was the popular line.

The median age of people dying from COVID is a fact. I stated multiple times that my opinion about COVID mitigation measures would have been much different if a large percentage of the deaths were young people like the Spanish Flu.

I don't know why somebody needs to apologize for stating an undisputed fact. All of the variables must be taken into account when deciding how to respond to any crisis and the age of the people most adversely effected is one of the variables. I could be wrong but doesn't your health care system make some treatment decisions based on the age of the patient?
 

James J

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
The median age of people dying from COVID is a fact. I stated multiple times that my opinion about COVID mitigation measures would have been much different if a large percentage of the deaths were young people like the Spanish Flu.

I don't know why somebody needs to apologize for stating an undisputed fact. All of the variables must be taken into account when deciding how to respond to any crisis and the age of the people most adversely effected is one of the variables. I could be wrong but doesn't your health care system make some treatment decisions based on the age of the patient?
I think the fact that he said 'Get Covid and live longer' is very much worth an apology.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
A sobering read.

This is a completely useless observation. The life expectancy for somebody born in the past year hasn't changed one iota. It's just a retroactive calculation based on the age of people who have died over the course of the year. Since COVID cut lives short especially in the elderly population it is reflected in the life expectancy calculation. If COVID is still around in 70 years (I certainly won't be) without available vaccines then it would mean something.

My main take away from the article is to figure out what I can do to emulate hispanic people and get to their higher life expectancy.
 

sullyinMT

Well-Known Member
It's too late now, but the US could have provided vaccines for every athlete, coach, team support, whatever, for every person from every country competing in the games. Plus all the reporters and Olympic staff too.

Use that US excess supply. Sure, it could be argued that instead of this we should give doses to countries in need and better targeted. But, in the scope of US supply and donations to other countries, would this number of doses really matter that much? What is it, 20K people?

Think of the marketing opportunity. US Official Vaccine Sponsor of the 2020* Olympics. They could have run ads galore with all the different teams and countries about how great getting the vaccine is. Be like superstar/team/underdog/touching story athlete and get your vaccination today!

Before someone says "US Vaccine Contracts prevent this", which vaccine provider wouldn't want the positive press of being an Olympic Vaccine supplier or more importantly, which would want the bad press of denying vaccine to Olympic athletes.

The Olympic committee would probably want a check to use that marketing. :eek:

Hindsight is wonderful, a missed opportunity. :(
I’d take the bolded part of this brilliant missed opportunity one step further. I’d bet a dollar to a donut Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna would have gladly assisted in donating to this type of effort in a compassionate use/charity care sort of way. Like you said the ads and positive PR write themselves.

Some might counter with drivel about only “elites” getting access, or money driven motives and TV ratings. But your plan is an overwhelmingly positive one.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I don't know why somebody needs to apologize for stating an undisputed fact. All of the variables must be taken into account when deciding how to respond to any crisis and the age of the people most adversely effected is one of the variables. I could be wrong but doesn't your health care system make some treatment decisions based on the age of the patient?
He didn’t just state a fact. He joked about the age of those dying and said he doubted the NHS would be overwhelmed, even as he was (publicly) declaring how seriously he was taking the threat. His behaviour was callous and dishonest—the sort of thing leaders were expected to apologise for back in the day.

E6sEFbvXIAQlUVK.jpg


I could be wrong but doesn't your health care system make some treatment decisions based on the age of the patient?
Yes, it does. I don’t see how that justifies Johnson’s flippant attitude, which extends to the NHS itself.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
He didn’t just state a fact. He joked about the age of those dying and said he doubted the NHS would be overwhelmed, even as he was (publicly) declaring how seriously he was taking the threat. His behaviour was callous and dishonest—the sort of thing leaders were expected to apologise for back in the day.

E6sEFbvXIAQlUVK.jpg



Yes, it does. I don’t see how that justifies Johnson’s flippant attitude, which extends to the NHS itself.
He made one joke inserted within a bunch of facts. You can take something seriously and make a joke about it simultaneously. That doesn't make somebody dishonest. People with disabilities or who get diagnosed with cancer use humor as a means of coping. It doesn't mean that it isn't being taken seriously.

The reason that I asked about the age based healthcare decisions is because I don't understand why it is perfectly acceptable to decide not to treat a 75 year old with stage 4 cancer (just coming up with an example) when you would treat a 35 year old in the same situation but it is unacceptable to base COVID response on the age of the people dying weighed against the negative effect on the younger population who isn't dying.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
He made one joke inserted within a bunch of facts. You can take something seriously and make a joke about it simultaneously. That doesn't make somebody dishonest. People with disabilities or who get diagnosed with cancer use humor as a means of coping. It doesn't mean that it isn't being taken seriously.

The reason that I asked about the age based healthcare decisions is because I don't understand why it is perfectly acceptable to decide not to treat a 75 year old with stage 4 cancer (just coming up with an example) when you would treat a 35 year old in the same situation but it is unacceptable to base COVID response on the age of the people dying weighed against the negative effect on the younger population who isn't dying.
You and I clearly hold our leaders to different standards. He should apologise.

As to your second paragraph, you’re skipping over a very important fact that has been highlighted time and again in this thread: it isn’t just about deaths, and young people, too, need protecting from COVID.
 

drizgirl

Well-Known Member
It's too late now, but the US could have provided vaccines for every athlete, coach, team support, whatever, for every person from every country competing in the games. Plus all the reporters and Olympic staff too.

Use that US excess supply. Sure, it could be argued that instead of this we should give doses to countries in need and better targeted. But, in the scope of US supply and donations to other countries, would this number of doses really matter that much? What is it, 20K people?

Think of the marketing opportunity. US Official Vaccine Sponsor of the 2020* Olympics. They could have run ads galore with all the different teams and countries about how great getting the vaccine is. Be like superstar/team/underdog/touching story athlete and get your vaccination today!

Before someone says "US Vaccine Contracts prevent this", which vaccine provider wouldn't want the positive press of being an Olympic Vaccine supplier or more importantly, which would want the bad press of denying vaccine to Olympic athletes.

The Olympic committee would probably want a check to use that marketing. :eek:

Hindsight is wonderful, a missed opportunity. :(
I still bet large numbers would have turned it down. Surely if there was demand for this it would have happened.

Do we even know how much of the US team is vaccinated?
 
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