Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Flugell]

Thank you for your response.

I hope you’ll forgive me for keeping this relatively brief, but for me, it really boils down to the first of your questions: “If not now, when?” My answer: Not when cases are skyrocketing, not before medical experts and NHS workers think it’s appropriate, and most certainly not until every adult in England who wants to be vaccinated has had that opportunity. “Freedom Day” (a cynical and gimmicky name befitting Johnson’s shabby theatrics) is premature by any sensible measure. It needn’t have been this way, and the result is going to be more cases, more illness, and more death. For a government to go ahead with this knowing what lies in store is unconscionable, though hardly surprising given the recent revelations from Cummings (and yes, he is to believed—Downing Street has issued no denial of his claims).

I appreciate your response too but fundamentally and totally believe Cummings is the worst type of sour grapes liar and nothing he utters should be believed. That was proven with the Barnard Castle affair. Denial would be seen as giving credence to his spurious allegations.

As for the rest I go back to an earlier post with apologies for not crediting the original poster.

Boris Johnson is damned if he does open up and damned if he doesn’t.
I’m glad it’s not a decision I am faced with.

I ask again when is the right time? We seem to be far behind the USA date of removing all mitigations and it is at least legal to put them back and although that wouldn’t be universally popular it could be possible. A few days ago people were talking civil war type scenarios if that was tried in the USA (on this thread.)

I have just researched vaccination rates and London, where I believe your family live, only have 45% of adults over 18 fully vaccinated whereas the North West, where I live, have 65% fully vaccinated. I may feel differently when confronted with such a ridiculously low take up. There are 300 pop up centres in London as well as the original permanent ones so something is going wrong there.

Whatever the disagreements we have over government actions or inaction I can tell from the sincerity of your responses that we are in total agreement in hoping that the situation improves as quickly as is possible.
I hope that your Father continues to improve and that you can see your family as soon as possible. Stay safe and keep looking out for us in the U.K. as I continue to look out for the USA. I can’t wait to return to your beautiful country soon and in safety.
Best wishes, Flugell

 

[LittleBuford]

Whatever the disagreements we have over government actions or inaction I can tell from the sincerity of your responses that we are in total agreement in hoping that the situation improves as quickly as is possible.
I hope that your Father continues to improve and that you can see your family as soon as possible. Stay safe and keep looking out for us in the U.K. as I continue to look out for the USA. I can’t wait to return to your beautiful country soon and in safety.
Best wishes, Flugell

Thank you for your good wishes, which I fully reciprocate. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you'll be reunited with your younger son before too long. Stay safe in the meantime.

 

[SamusAranX]

Unless a person who worked in the lab got infected accidentally and spread it to the nearby community. I think that is the theory more than some virus got out of the window.

Thanks, I just had a hilarious visual of a viral particle opening his Petri dish, climbing to the window, and jumping out and yelling “so long suckers”

 

[GimpYancIent]

Since Shanghai Disney is located in the Peoples Republic of China what are their mitigation procedures? Didn't SD shut down for a while? Is the Chinese government strangling the flow of information from SD about the effects of COVID19 on park operations? Interesting the vail of silence from the Disney park closest to the originating source of this disease.

 

[correcaminos]

I have a firm belief that even when they get full approval, just about everybody that's still dragging their legs will come up with a new excuse for not getting it then.

I don't disagree, but we might get some who just realize it's a losing battle at that point.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

You guys are extra snippy today. Everyone should keep calm and Rolltide.

 

[Trauma]

You guys are extra snippy today. Everyone should keep calm and Rolltide.

Yeah well we may get snippy but we have an engaging discourse.

I learned a lot from people I disagree with.

What does suck is I feel almost everyone here is vaccinated, and yet we are left to argue amongst ourselves as no one else cares to listen.

How can we not be snippy? Most of us have done our part assuming it would be enough.

How can we possibly agree on what we think should happen?

Nothing has worked.

We have a miracle in the vaccine and that is still falling short of the herd immunity goal.

At least it’s encouraging that even in this small
community, there is a great number of people
passionate about trying to do what’s best.

I for one am happy that I have a outlet where I can post my opinion, and receive honest criticism of it.

Anyways I don’t know what I’m even rambling on about, just saying I appreciate you all.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yeah well we may get snippy but we have an engaging discourse.

I learned a lot from people I disagree with.

What does suck is I feel almost everyone here is vaccinated, and yet we are left to argue amongst ourselves as no one else cares to listen.

How can we not be snippy? Most of us have done our part assuming it would be enough.

How can we possibly agree on what we think should happen?

Nothing has worked.

We have a miracle in the vaccine and that is still falling short of the herd immunity goal.

At least it’s encouraging that even in this small
community, there is a great number of people
passionate about trying to do what’s best.

I for one am happy that I have a outlet where I can post my opinion, and receive honest criticism of it.

Anyways I don’t know what I’m even rambling on about, just saying I appreciate you all.

Well said. I do appreciate the different point of views here.

The only thing I will add is I'm amazed at how vastly different neighboring countries can be. It's a big reason I can be hard on the attitudes of people. Where I live as a country we worked hard to limit cases and get people vaccinated. When I see a country that had access to vaccines way before us and for us to pass you guys its concerning. Then you add in the attitude of those vaccinated who now are celebrating what they think is the end is ridiculous.

If only your leadership followed how it was done here you guys would be in much better shape.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

What makes you think once they have full approval we will move towards mandatory vaccines.

Everyone keeps telling me it’s impossible.

it becomes 100% legal at that point.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Have they announced a reciprocal procedure for Canadians entering the US via a land border? We're hoping to have my in-laws here in December.

I'm surprised the announcement didn't include opening the borders both ways.

The USA has wanted the borders open for some time, it was always Canada holding out.

I can't imagine the USA being okay with a scenario where Americans are free to spend their tourist dollars in Canada but not vice versa.

With vaccination rates being what they are Canada should be more concerned about American visitors than the other way around.

I'm sure the border towns in the USA are shouting at whoever will listen to open up.

 

[LittleBuford]

It’s so curious to me that they didn’t postpone by another year.

Olympics: Tokyo 2020 chief does not rule out cancelling Games

Just days before the Games' opening ceremony, more athletes have tested positive for Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[lisa12000]

It’s so curious to me that they didn’t postpone by another year.

Olympics: Tokyo 2020 chief does not rule out cancelling Games

Just days before the Games' opening ceremony, more athletes have tested positive for Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think they said logistically and financially they could not do so - I guess it’s also the athletes schedules in terms of other tournaments and championships

 

[AEfx]

It is not common sense for a virus to cluster 10 miles away from the lab it supposedly accidentally escaped from. Lay people think "that's close." Infectious disease people know it's too far. The early cases radiate from a central point, and it's not the lab.

That's a nice attempt at argument from authority, but I'm sorry - that logic just does not follow. Do the workers at the lab live isolated on site? No, they go home after work. No one is postulating that the virus somehow jumped out the window of the lab to a passerby. Clearly, people are talking about a potentially exposed employee bringing it out to the community. It makes a heck of a lot more sense than the "wet market" theory, which would be one amazingly incredible hell of a coincidence.

In any case, it is vitally important - aside from the clear scientific benefit of knowing its origin - because both traditional and social media labeled ANY question of this as some wild conspiracy theory for a year, condemning it as "misinformation" and banned talk of it. That kind of power is tremendously concerning.

It's one of the many exhibits in this situation that have led people to become more distrustful of what the traditional and social media allows as the "approved" current narrative. The fact people weren't even allowed to ask the obvious questions was shady, suspicious, and that people are still trying to gaslight others into thinking it is some crazy idea does nothing to help the situation, and in fact actively works against it.

 

[Lilofan]

You guys are extra snippy today. Everyone should keep calm and Rolltide.

Agree w/ the calm but roll Clemson!

 

[DisneyCane]

It’s so curious to me that they didn’t postpone by another year.

Olympics: Tokyo 2020 chief does not rule out cancelling Games

Just days before the Games' opening ceremony, more athletes have tested positive for Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

It would be very unfair to the athletes to postpone. Elite level athletes age quickly and their window to perform at their peak is very short. An "elderly" gymnast like Simone Biles might have her skills degrade over another year. Today she is, by far, the best female gymnast in the world. A year from now that may not be the case anymore.

Just like with other sports we are talking about young athletes that are in great shape and health. Even if every single Olympic athlete got infected I'd be willing to bet that not one ends up dying and it is likely that none would even end up in the hospital.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

It’s so curious to me that they didn’t postpone by another year.

Olympics: Tokyo 2020 chief does not rule out cancelling Games

Just days before the Games' opening ceremony, more athletes have tested positive for Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

If not postpone, at least mandatory vaccination. I just don’t understand something as big as the Olympics, where everyday they keep saying they are going all out to keep the athletes safe, does not require vaccinations. So it’s a lie when they say they are doing everything possible. Understandable if for some reason you can’t get it, all others should be required. It shouldn’t be..” well everyone is young and shouldn’t have a problem even if they catch it”. Sure they probably wouldn’t have a problem but they still might.. and besides if they catch it most likely won’t compete anyway because of quarantine so where’s the harm.

 

[drizgirl]

If not postpone, at least mandatory vaccination. I just don’t understand something as big as the Olympics, where everyday they keep saying they are going all out to keep the athletes safe, does not require vaccinations. So it’s a lie when they say they are doing everything possible. Understandable if for some reason you can’t get it, all others should be required. It shouldn’t be..” well everyone is young and shouldn’t have a problem even if they catch it”. Sure they probably wouldn’t have a problem but they still might.. and besides if they catch it most likely won’t compete anyway because of quarantine so where’s the harm.

I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if vaccination rates among Olympic and professional athletes is very low. I'd actually be shocked if the majority is vaccinated. I think they live their lives trying to eke out the slimmest of performance edges over their competition. I can see them holding off until they have some sort of data on any vaccine's impact on their performance.

I think they're nuts. But it wouldn't shock me.

 

[Andrew C]

An "elderly" gymnast like Simone Biles might have her skills degrade over another year. Today she is, by far, the best female gymnast in the world. A year from now that may not be the case anymore.

Normally, a gymnast is past her peak by her age. But she is something else...something we have really never seen before, lol. I mean that in the best way. She is an amazing athlete and is still heads over heels better than the rest. It is mind boggling to be honest.

 

[hopemax]

That's a nice attempt at argument from authority, but I'm sorry - that logic just does not follow. Do the workers at the lab live isolated on site? No, they go home after work. No one is postulating that the virus somehow jumped out the window of the lab to a passerby. Clearly, people are talking about a potentially exposed employee bringing it out to the community. It makes a heck of a lot more sense than the "wet market" theory, which would be one amazingly incredible hell of a coincidence.

In any case, it is vitally important - aside from the clear scientific benefit of knowing its origin - because both traditional and social media labeled ANY question of this as some wild conspiracy theory for a year, condemning it as "misinformation" and banned talk of it. That kind of power is tremendously concerning.

It's one of the many exhibits in this situation that have led people to become more distrustful of what the traditional and social media allows as the "approved" current narrative. The fact people weren't even allowed to ask the obvious questions was shady, suspicious, and that people are still trying to gaslight others into thinking it is some crazy idea does nothing to help the situation, and in fact actively works against it.

Of course they don't! I find it interesting that both you and @DisneyCane both used the same window analogy. So how would this work, exactly?

A theoretical lab worker is exposed in a lab, but doesn't know it. They do normal things like travel back and forth between home and work. It's China, not the US, so likely public transportation. They visit cafes and restaurants. Shops and markets. They visit their friends, they're with their family and co-workers.

I would expect they would leave infection footprints. Some at the home side, some at the work side, some random infections in between because of encounters on public transport, in a cafe/restaurant, a friend or co-worker that lives in a different part of the city. Secondary and tertiary cluster spots, connected by the route they normally travel.

It's not just about where the virus clustered. But where it *didn't.* Yes, it makes sense that an infected person would spread the virus "near their home." But how did they manage to stop infections from occurring elsewhere in their daily activities and the encounters they would have had?

 

[Andrew C]

Of course they don't! I find it interesting that both you and @DisneyCane both used the same window analogy. So how would this work, exactly?

A theoretical lab worker is exposed in a lab, but doesn't know it. They do normal things like travel back and forth between home and work. It's China, not the US, so likely public transportation. They visit cafes and restaurants. Shops and markets. They visit their friends, they're with their family and co-workers.

I would expect they would leave infection footprints. Some at the home side, some at the work side, some random infections in between because of encounters on public transport, in a cafe/restaurant, a friend or co-worker that lives in a different part of the city. Secondary and tertiary cluster spots, connected by the route they normally travel.

It's not just about where the virus clustered. But where it *didn't.* Yes, it makes sense that an infected person would spread the virus "near their home." But how did they manage to stop infections from occurring elsewhere in their daily activities and the encounters they would have had?

These questions could likely be answered if the CCP shared the raw data from the early days of the pandemic. But as the WHO just recently said, they haven't....so here we are, making assumptions based on incomplete data (yes, even you the expert). For us that are not in this field, we can only look at reports coming out (which are minimal still, but, such as researchers at the lab becoming sick with COVID like symptoms in the fall of 2019) and common sense.