Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[hopemax]

I use too many ellipses...

(And as an English major, I'm ashamed, but I type the same way I talk, and use the ellipses purposefully)

Me too. And commas. And I start too many sentences with and or but... But yes, I try to write as if I'm having a conversation and not a writing assignment.

 

[correcaminos]

The only thing inappropriate about my post was saying the vaccine was American-made. I did not realize BioTech was a German company. Pfizer is most definitely an American corporation. So yay for international cooperation.

BioNTech actually. Germany helped fund a lot of it too. Definitely a global effort

 

[DisneyDebRob]

After a year of ridiculing the hypothesis and calling it a conspiracy theory, it is interesting that it is back on the table.

No different then a hundred other things discussed here I’ve the past year plus. Things come, get shot down then go away.. few months later they are back. Amazing watching science work.. or in this case, possibly getting more intel about what actually happened in China. Jury is still out but let’s toss it around a little again.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I didn’t vote for him but lean right and have both my shots, the majority of my family did vote for him though and they are all vaccinated. Some people will unfortunately let politics sway their decision but in my experience that’s the exception rather than the norm.

Some of my furthest right friends are vaccinated, some of my furthest left friends aren’t, one specifically because he is a naturalist (not sure if that’s the right term but he only eats organic, thinks GMOs are killing everyone, etc) and equates the vaccines to putting unknown chemicals in his body, he’s already had Covid so he feels content his natural antibodies will protect him. Another left leaning friend won’t get it because her brother is a chiropractor and advised their family against it.

Theres a lot going into people’s decisions, saying it’s all politics is missing the bigger picture.

Anecdotal examples mean little. While the reasons behind the choice of whether or not to get vaccinated may be varied, one cannot deny there's a correlation between vaccination rates and political leanings. Gotta look at the big picture.

Which is a reason so many people are ready to move on and leave the unvaccinated to their fate. There's a difference in opinion that cannot be rectified any time soon. If there was a chance something could happen soon, like FDA approval, that would actually change minds, then more people might be willing to accept restrictions until that point is reached.

As it is, things are just about as good as they're going to get.

 

[Jrb1979]

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6109362

From reading the article and listening to my local radio, I wouldn't be surprised Fauci is disappointed. For a country that has access to the vaccines before most of the world to be passed by a country that had issues getting them til well into April says it all.

What bothers me is how everyone has decided to let the fire burn.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Hypothetically, if some mRNA somehow did hide away for a few years, could it degrade in a manner where it could still be transcribed into something else? Could that new protein be dangerous?

mRNA is not a stable molecule, so, no, it couldn't stick around. And let's assume that one mRNA strand looses some bases through random molecular noise and codes a new, potentially harmful protein. So what? We have only a single molecule. Even if it does cause local damage to that invidual cell, this is still only one unique event localized to a single cell. The chances that the millions of other mRNA molecules injected from the vaccine could undergo the same exact deletion in hundreds of thousands of other cells and produce the same exact harmful protein are beyond negligible.

Here's a though experiment. Imagine you had a bucket containing 1,000 unique marbles. When you dump the marbles on the floor, they would form a unique pattern. What are the chances that the same exact pattern would form if you dumped the bucket again? And again? And again? Etc...

That's about the liklihood of an mRNA vaccine accidentally transcribing a harmful protein and doing so in sufficient quantities to actually cause harm. mRNA is only used once (unless it has s promoter allowing it to be used multiple times )before it breaks down, so that one error can not repeat itself.

Now, any vaccine has the potential to stimulate a harmful immune cross-reaction (which we see in rare cases even with the mRNA vaccines), but this is due to defects in immune system regulation, not properties of the vaccines themselves.

 

[hopemax]

After a year of ridiculing the hypothesis and calling it a conspiracy theory, it is interesting that it is back on the table.

But what is the investigation attempting to accomplish? Because they think there is something to find, or to rule one of the paths out?

IMO, this investigation is more akin to when a parent walks through a child through a bedtime ritual of looking for monsters under the bed, and in the closet. Do parents actually believe they are going to find a monster? No, but they understand that going through the *process* of looking, provides reassurance that no stone was left unturned. Due diligence was paid, etc. The earlier dismissal, obviously left people worried about a monster in a closet.

 

[danlb_2000]

There is more evidence that it came from the lab then there is that it came from a wet market. the anger is with the Chinese governmen.

Can you provide links to the evidence? Here is a link to an excellent discussion of the science for the natural origin theory.

TWiV 762: SARS-CoV-2 origins with Robert Garry

Robert Garry joins TWiV to explain how the molecular biology of SARS-CoV-2 shows that it came from Nature and not a lab, including the receptor binding domain, the furin cleavage site, and the two lineages circulating in Wuhan wildlife markets.

www.microbe.tv

 

[danlb_2000]

Nothing about a lab leak precludes it from having a natural origin.

Let me clarify, there is no strong evidence that it was either created or leaked from a lab. There is scientific evidence that casts strong doubt on the "created in a lab" theory, and even some evidence that casts doubt on the "leaked from a lab" theory.

 

[RobbinsDad]

But what is the investigation attempting to accomplish? Because they think there is something to find, or to rule one of the paths out?

IMO, this investigation is more akin to when a parent walks through a child through a bedtime ritual of looking for monsters under the bed, and in the closet. Do parents actually believe they are going to find a monster? No, but they understand that going through the *process* of looking, provides reassurance that no stone was left unturned. Due diligence was paid, etc. The earlier dismissal, obviously left people worried about a monster in a closet.

I doubt the WHO would advocate for an investigation/inquiry/whatever if they thought there was no chance of a lab leak occurring, but as a measure only to reassure the public it didn't happen.

 

[hopemax]

I doubt the WHO would advocate for an investigation/inquiry/whatever if they thought there was no chance of a lab leak occurring, but as a measure only to reassure the public.

Well, they get access to the lab and whatever records still exist about other early infections, which has other benefits. And there is a scientific benefit to being able to close off one of the paths.

 

[Andrew C]

But what is the investigation attempting to accomplish? Because they think there is something to find, or to rule one of the paths out?

IMO, this investigation is more akin to when a parent walks through a child through a bedtime ritual of looking for monsters under the bed, and in the closet. Do parents actually believe they are going to find a monster? No, but they understand that going through the *process* of looking, provides reassurance that no stone was left unturned. Due diligence was paid, etc. The earlier dismissal, obviously left people worried about a monster in a closet.

That’s an interesting take. Don’t agree at all. But interesting. Lol.

For me. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. And the CCP has already been caught covering up for themselves, it’s probably a duck. Just common sense IMO.

 

[hopemax]

That’s an interesting take. Don’t agree at all. But interesting. Lol.

For me. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. And the CCP has already been caught covering up for themselves, it’s probably a duck. Just common sense IMO.

It is not common sense for a virus to cluster 10 miles away from the lab it supposedly accidentally escaped from. Lay people think "that's close." Infectious disease people know it's too far. The early cases radiate from a central point, and it's not the lab.

 

[Jrb1979]

That’s an interesting take. Don’t agree at all. But interesting. Lol.

For me. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. And the CCP has already been caught covering up for themselves, it’s probably a duck. Just common sense IMO.

And I don't care about any of that.

 

[danlb_2000]

It is not common sense for a virus to cluster 10 miles away from the lab it supposedly accidentally escaped from. Lay people think "that's close." Infectious disease people know it's too far. The early cases radiate from a central point, and it's not the lab.

There were also two early lineages of the virus that spread in two different markets, which is easier to explain from natural origin then lab leak. I also think Occam's Razor applies here, did a virus leak from a lab that is designed to prevent a viruses from escaping, or did it originate from a wet market that is a perfect environment for the transfer of disease from animals to humans.

Early appearance of two distinct genomic lineages of SARS-CoV-2 in different Wuhan wildlife markets suggests SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin

Early appearance of two distinct genomic lineages of SARS-CoV-2 in different Wuhan wildlife markets suggests SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin Robert F. Garry1,2 1Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Tulane University Medical Center, 1430 Tulane Avenue, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112 USA...

virological.org

 

[Andrew C]

It is not common sense for a virus to cluster 10 miles away from the lab it supposedly accidentally escaped from. Lay people think "that's close." Infectious disease people know it's too far. The early cases radiate from a central point, and it's not the lab.

Yet, senior officials and experts are still looking into it as a credible theory...after is was initially dismissed. And the WHO is actually calling for China to be more transparent so we can get to the bottom of this. Shocker, I know. So what do you know that they don't?

This can easily be solved if China was more open about it. But of course that isn't going to happen. The CCP have tried to cover their butts since the beginning. And for me, it isn't so much the accidental release if that is what is determined to be. It is the lies about it and cover up. Months wasted in the fall 2019 for the world to get ahead of it. Here in the US, we use the previous people in office as the excuse for not getting ahead of this. So what is the excuse for the rest of the world? Easy...the excuse is the CCP, who had no intention of every being upfront about this. So forgive me if I am not going to take China's word for it, as everyday the experts struggle to gain access.

 

[hopemax]

There were also two early lineages of the virus that spread in two different markets, which is easier to explain from natural origin then lab leak. I also think Occam's Razor applies here, did a virus leak from a lab that is designed to prevent a viruses from escaping, or did it originate from a wet market that is a perfect environment for the transfer of disease from animals to humans.

Early appearance of two distinct genomic lineages of SARS-CoV-2 in different Wuhan wildlife markets suggests SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin

Early appearance of two distinct genomic lineages of SARS-CoV-2 in different Wuhan wildlife markets suggests SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin Robert F. Garry1,2 1Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Tulane University Medical Center, 1430 Tulane Avenue, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112 USA...

virological.org

FYI, your quote function got messed up. I know you were replying to me, but it says @Disney Experience which might be confusing to him.

But yes, I agree. There is so much people have to overlook about the things that are known, in order to elevate lab leak over natural.

 

[Cadbury]

because her brother is a chiropractor and advised their family against it.

 

[Disney Experience]

FYI, your quote function got messed up. I know you were replying to me, but it says @Disney Experience which might be confusing to him.

Yep quote mistakenly attributed to me confused me too.

The body of the quote attributed to me in @danlb_2000 ‘s post was not something I said rather from your post.

 

[JoeCamel]

Yet, senior officials and experts are still looking into it as a credible theory...after is was initially dismissed. And the WHO is actually calling for China to be more transparent so we can get to the bottom of this. Shocker, I know. So what do you know that they don't?

This can easily be solved if China was more open about it. But of course that isn't going to happen. The CCP have tried to cover their butts since the beginning. And for me, it isn't so much the accidental release if that is what is determined to be. It is the lies about it and cover up. Months wasted in the fall 2019 for the world to get ahead of it. Here in the US, we use the previous people in office as the excuse for not getting ahead of this. So what is the excuse for the rest of the world? Easy...the excuse is the CCP, who had no intention of every being upfront about this. So forgive me if I am not going to take China's word for it, as everyday the experts struggle to gain access.

And if it did and it was covered up so what?
What would the world do differently now if that is the case?