Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[danlb_2000]

I just do not understand what the issue is with asking or showing a vaccine card what is the big deal and my body my choice is a bunch of horse $hit. It's about keeping folks safe and the economy going. I just do not understand the big deal except for the fact that folks do not like to be told they need to do something.

In Florida it was being spun as protecting people's rights, but I am sure it was just a political move. The law only bans vaccine passports for COVID-19, if it was really about protecting people's rights why doesn't it cover vaccines for all diseases?

 

[danlb_2000]

I was listening to a recent episode of the This Week in Virology podcast and they addresses something that I was wondering about. If you have been vaccinated and you later get infected with the virus, you will likely have a good outcome as we know, but that infection will also work as a natural booster.

 

[DisneyFan32]

I was listening to a recent episode of the This Week in Virology podcast and they addresses something that I was wondering about. If you have been vaccinated and you later get infected with the virus, you will likely have a good outcome as we know, but that infection will also work as a natural booster.

is NJ and NY will be back to normal by fall/winter. Is NJ Transit will lose masks for trains and buses by September?

 

[correcaminos]

It is their choice and all of the sick people you spoke about made the, in my opinion very bad, choice not to be vaccinated and are currently suffering the consequences of that choice. Regardless, adults in the US have a right to make their own choices regarding what medication they wish to have injected into their bodies.

Ever since vaccine hesitancy became apparent, I have supported incentives for people to get vaccinated. However, I have never supported punishment for not getting vaccinated and allowing businesses to require vaccination is a form of punishment for the unvaccinated.

Is it really punishment to require unvaccinated to mask up if indoors? To prove a covid neg test to be inside for large gatherings? Seriously curious.

 

[havoc315]

Protecting the vulnerable was always the primary objective. I'm not sure how eradication was ever possible due to the variants or the fact that vaccine distribution for children under 12 was always very far off...

Maybe the goal post has indeed shifted.

It’s not that far off, under 12 will be by the end of this year, and they are indeed far less vulnerable.
The only real factor blocking total eradication is the fact that this is worldwide. Even if we vaccinate 100% of Americans, we will have disease come in through the borders. Which is why I said near eradication — We could prevent anything more than minor surges.

Had we quickly gotten enough vaccination and continued mitigation until squashing the virus, we would be in a position like Israel today. Yes, they are having a not-insignificant uptick from Delta, but it remains relatively minor. And if we had vaccinated and mitigated a bit more than them, we would be in even better shape.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

And if we had vaccinated and mitigated a bit more than them, we would be in even better shape.

Agreed. On mitigation there really wasn’t a reason to end it other than “people are tired of wearing masks.”

I think the vaccination could have been rolled out a little better - there was lots of confusion early on about reservations, walk ins etc. I tried to get vaccinated multiple times at a “walk in” spot and was told “sorry reservations only. Eventually I did get a vaccine but it took several days of trying - it’s not as easy as they make it sound. Or I was just particularly unlucky?

I also think it’s extra confusing for people trying to get a specific vaccine. They should have specific spots for the different vaccines and not mix them up. Example - all Walgreens carry Pfizer. All Publix carry Moderna.

 

[DisneyCane]

Actually, prohibiting said requirement is punishing the business as well as their employees and customers.

No it isn't. The owners, employees and other customers can get vaccinated and not really have to worry about COVID.

But it’s a legal right for Americans to take an international cruise?

It's a legal right to leave the country and to be allowed back in.

Is it really punishment to require unvaccinated to mask up if indoors? To prove a covid neg test to be inside for large gatherings? Seriously curious.

I wouldn't consider that to be a punishment for the unvaccinated and a business can have that requirement if they wanted to deal with the logistics and enforcement. It would be a punishment to not allow an unvaccinated person to enter but not a punishment to require certain protocols.

I just don't think any business wants to deal with that. Therefore, they will either require masks for everybody or have an honor system that requires them for the unvaccinated. Which policy will depend on what they think will attract more customers.

There's an ice cream shop near my home that still requires masks. Therefore, I patronize a different ice cream shop that doesn't because I'm fully vaccinated and don't want to wear a mask anywhere.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

No it isn't. The owners, employees and other customers can get vaccinated and not really have to worry about COVID.

It's a legal right to leave the country and to be allowed back in.

I wouldn't consider that to be a punishment for the unvaccinated and a business can have that requirement if they wanted to deal with the logistics and enforcement. It would be a punishment to not allow an unvaccinated person to enter but not a punishment to require certain protocols.

I just don't think any business wants to deal with that. Therefore, they will either require masks for everybody or have an honor system that requires them for the unvaccinated. Which policy will depend on what they think will attract more customers.

There's an ice cream shop near my home that still requires masks. Therefore, I patronize a different ice cream shop that doesn't because I'm fully vaccinated and don't want to wear a mask anywhere.

I trust individual businesses to make decisions on masks that are right for them. If the store is small or staff have to be in close contact with customers it's a smart decision to continue to require masks.

I'm fully vaccinated but happy to follow their guidelines, and not punish them for taking actions to keep themselves safe.

 

[LittleBuford]

They still have added the proviso that if places such as nightclubs don’t do enough to mitigate spread in their clubs then it will be mandated - imo it will be compulsory come the September review ‘to save winter’

And it doesn’t concern you that we would have had weeks of uncontrolled clubbing by then? What sense is there in stopping the behaviour after it’s already done its damage?

 

[mmascari]

Ever since vaccine hesitancy became apparent, I have supported incentives for people to get vaccinated. However, I have never supported punishment for not getting vaccinated and allowing businesses to require vaccination is a form of punishment for the unvaccinated.

Is it really punishment to require unvaccinated to mask up if indoors? To prove a covid neg test to be inside for large gatherings? Seriously curious.

All of these are just a marketing difference. Perhaps with a focus on which marketing got there first.

"You're vaccinated, yeah, you get to go to the concert!" - The concert access is an incentive.
"You're not vaccinated, you're not allowed to go to the concert." - The concert access is a punishment.

They're exactly the same outcome.

Pay a fine, go to jail, moved to a quarantine and denied ability to leave. Those are all clearly punishments, and would need to be imposed by the state.

Aren't able to transact business with someone. That's just marketing.

Vaccination status isn't a protected class.


If someone wants to work on a food prep line, they have to wear a hair covering if they have long hair. That's not a punishment for having long hair. They can keep the long hair and wear a hat/hair net. They can not work the job. They've got options. But, NONE of those options are force the company to allow them to work the line with long hair and no hair covering.

If someone wants to be an incubator for a contagious disease, that's their choice too. That doesn't mean there are no consequences to the decision. That others want to not do business with or have interactions with those who have chosen to incubate a contagious disease isn't really a surprise.

 

[mmascari]

It would be a punishment to not allow an unvaccinated person to enter but not a punishment to require certain protocols.

I guess I don't understand the distinction here. Only allowing vaccinated people to mingle is a certain protocol. It's no different than requiring everyone wear masks, or even requiring only unvaccinated wear masks. They're all just different protocols with different levels of effectiveness.

I just don't think any business wants to deal with that. Therefore, they will either require masks for everybody or have an honor system that requires them for the unvaccinated. Which policy will depend on what they think will attract more customers.

This is definitely true, that most business don't want to deal with complicated protocols.

1. Only unvaccinated wear a mask - honor system
2. Everyone wear a mask
3. Only unvaccinated wear a mask - we're checking
4. Everyone wear a mask, and we're maintaining distance.
5. Only vaccinated are allowed - self attest.
6. Only vaccinated are allowed - we're checking "something".
7. Only vaccinated are allowed - we're checking a robust tracking system

They're all just different protocols that each provide a different level of mitigation, each with a different level of hassle to implement them.

A business is going to pick the one that fits their risk profile, hassle, and marketing strategy.

The ice cream shop that's only operating a walk up window where employees are inside and customers are outside has a very different risk profile than a shop that's all inside, in a cramped crowded space, with ventilation designed to minimize exchange and keep cool air in. That risk difference is going to lead to different solutions. A cruise that's an enclosed environment with very long extended close contact of shared air has an entirely different risk profile. The increased risk allows for a more complicated mitigation. The cost structure also allows for one that comes with more hassle too.

Whatever mitigation strategy they pick will have marketing consequences. Are they seeking the most risk adverse customers, the broadest customer base. Which customers are they going to lose based on the choices, which employees are they going to lose based on the choices.

None of those are punishments.

 

[LaughingGravy]

Is it really punishment to require unvaccinated to mask up if indoors? To prove a covid neg test to be inside for large gatherings? Seriously curious.

Now, if they were given a little pinch, a dirty look and a raspberry with a picture taken (tik tok?) and sent to many people in the facility for the purpose of shunning them, that may be considered a punishment.

 

[Touchdown]

I still like the idea of arming citizens with blow darts of the J&J vaccine.

 

[Seanual757]

I am just grateful that I was able to get mine in February a friend of mine lost 8 total family members to covid he was lucky he did not pass from it himself after being in the hospital for two week. My other friend lost his brother in his 30’s he was in ICU on a vent since Christmas eve and finally lost his battle in April.

 

[KrzyKtty]

I tell you what does make me nervous is we are supposed to be going down to Florida at the end of this month for Universal. And right now the way the covid numbers are jumping in that state is really worrisome for my 8-year-old daughter. She's going to hate it, but she's basically going to be married to her mask while we're there.

 

[The Mom]

I tell you what does make me nervous is we are supposed to be going down to Florida at the end of this month for Universal. And right now the way the covid numbers are jumping in that state is really worrisome for my 8-year-old daughter. She's going to hate it, but she's basically going to be married to her mask while we're there.

My suggestion - if you really must travel right now and your child cannot be vaccinated - is for everyone in your party wear a mask. Unless that was already your plan.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I am just grateful that I was able to get mine in February a friend of mine lost 8 total family members to covid he was lucky he did not pass from it himself after being in the hospital for two week. My other friend lost his brother in his 30’s he was in ICU on a vent since Christmas eve and finally lost his battle in April.

8 people in one family? That’s horrific.

 

[The Mom]

Just a warning that the discussion is moving back into "Politics and Social Issues" which is not allowed.

If posters cannot discuss this without getting political, then please do not chime in.

 

[DisneyCane]

Bringing this discussion to the present. Vaccines are available which in almost all cases make the worst case scenario a flu-like illness for anybody who gets vaccinated. This ability of the vaccines has remained true for all variants that have appeared thus far. There is no need for public policy when everyone who is at any somewhat significant risk can protect themselves. Looking at the statistics, children under 12 are not at what any reasonable analysis would consider risk from COVID-19.

Trying to prevent variants from developing is an exercise in futility for the USA. There are billions of unvaccinated people in the world. Variants are far more likely to come from elsewhere than from the 150 million unvaccinated in the USA.

 

[KrzyKtty]

My suggestion - if you really must travel right now and your child cannot be vaccinated - is for everyone in your party wear a mask. Unless that was already your plan.

The rest of us are vaccinated, just the one that can't be. We will probably all take appropriate precautions though just so that she does not feel alone.