Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Angel Ariel]

I can disagree with you but still listen and learn.

I’m sitting here in tears because I don’t know what to do anymore.

I did everything they said to do.

Where did it all go wrong?

I hear you, and I have hit tears stage myself more than a few times over the last year. All we can do is what you and I did - everything we knew to do. Unfortunately the messaging at the beginning from politicians, imo, was very damaging and I am not sure anything can be done to put that genie back in the bottle.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Really, I think it mostly comes down to how divided politically everyone has become. Like you say here, there is too much of an "us vs them" mentality in everything. As soon as the Virus became political, it became a democrat vs republican thing. As soon as that happened, any hope of the vaccine getting to everyone went down the tube. Not saying that there aren't Democrats that refuse the vaccine, and that their aren't Republicans that get it; however, the massive divide isn't helping this at all.

I think the bolded is the key issue here - the virus itself became political.

 

[GoofGoof]

That wasn’t part of my conversation at any time.



You said the exact same thing about getting there for sure by early June, then by the end of June, then maybe a few days after July 4th, then definitely by the end of July.
We certainly might make it by end of August.. we may not make it at all. Though I’m now MORE optimistic of us making it, as I’m hoping Delta is scaring more people into getting vaccinated, the realization that Covid isn’t “over.”

So I did think it would be September as best case scenario, I think Delta may create greater urgency of more people getting vaccinated, which may accelerate best case scenario to August. (I previously said I expected case resurgence is what might promote greater vaccination).

You consistently say something won’t happen then in another post say it might happen so in the end in your mind you are always right no matter what the actual outcome. I get that. I tried numerous times to have an actual conversation but you are consistently hell bent on arguing over nonsense. I don’t really care anymore. I spent months and months in this thread arguing with the Covid denial crowd and saying repeatedly that nobody wanted bad outcomes, but I’m at the point where I don’t know if I actually believe that anymore and that’s really sad…but like I said, it is what it is.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Really, I think it mostly comes down to how divided politically everyone has become. Like you say here, there is too much of an "us vs them" mentality in everything. As soon as the Virus became political, it became a democrat vs republican thing. As soon as that happened, any hope of the vaccine getting to everyone went down the tube. Not saying that there aren't Democrats that refuse the vaccine, and that their aren't Republicans that get it; however, the massive divide isn't helping this at all.

The sad thing is, I knew this was inevitable. As soon as COVID started to become a major concern, I knew the reaction and response in the USA would follow political ideology to a large degree. It happened virtually instantly, and decisively.

COVID isn't political. The response shows the dangers of people being completely driven by politics in everything they do.

It's a uniquely American thing. Look at these charts. Canada is politically diverse, yet vaccine uptake is so much higher.

 

[LaughingGravy]

Half the country hates the other half before the virus was even a thing.

I wouldn't go that far, presuming you mean politically. Before the virus was a thing, there was an exasperation with the less popular half, kind of a "Really?, Oh, for cripes sake, now what?". But, in most cases, I don't think it was a hate situation.

Once the over the top denial of science (ideas of the virus being overblown, just to start), disbelief that new technology could create such a vaccine so quickly (not really that new), lack of research into such claims ( simply believing blurbs posted) added to conspiracies believed by otherwise previously normal people took hold and the incredible self confidence and disbelief that the former guy could possibly lose culminated with what happened on 1/6, that's when things got ugly.

 

[KrzyKtty]

The sad thing is, I knew this was inevitable. As soon as COVID started to become a major concern, I knew the reaction and response in the USA would follow political ideology to a large degree. It happened virtually instantly, and decisively.

COVID isn't political. The response shows the dangers of people being completely driven by politics in everything they do.

It's a uniquely American thing. Look at these charts. Canada is politically diverse, yet vaccine uptake is so much higher.



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Oh, you won't get any argument from me on this one. I am very much independent and hate all parties in one way or another. The whole thing is stupid. And the way it has affected this crisis is stupid. All I can do is get my family vaccinated (except for the 8 year old, and believe me I am counting down the damn months). I live in the Deep South..... I really hate politics down here.

In my state not even 40% of the population is fully vaccinated, but 100% aren't wearing masks...... Because Merica!

 

[LaughingGravy]

As the Delta variant hopefully causes more of the reluctant to get vaccinated if they can, I like to think the shot(s) in their arms is also a shot of reality. For me, my shots were those of relief.

 

[TehPuddingMan]

I thought this thread was on Covid and Disney. Maybe some of you need to take a break for a while. It’s just a constant back and forth and you’ll never agree.

My wife and I will be going to Disney next month for our anniversary. I look forward to having a glass of wine from atop the California Grill and watching the fireworks.

The past 18 months have shown me that life’s too short and enjoy what you have because it will be gone before you know.

 

[KrzyKtty]

I thought this thread was on Covid and Disney. Maybe some of you need to take a break for a while. It’s just a constant back and forth and you’ll never agree.

My wife and I will be going to Disney next month for our anniversary. I look forward to having a glass of wine from atop the California Grill and watching the fireworks.

The past 18 months have shown me that life’s too short and enjoy what you have because it will be gone before you know.

Good luck on that point. I said about the same thing 10 pages or so back... at this point I give up.

BTW, congrats on your Anni! We were supposed to go this year for our 15, but put it off until next year instead.

 

[Flugell]

I can disagree with you but still listen and learn.

I’m sitting here in tears because I don’t know what to do anymore.

I did everything they said to do.

Where did it all go wrong?

This is so tragic on every level and probably/hopefully sums up the feelings of the majority of people. It certainly does for me, including the tears.

I think of our daughter who died as a baby of a very rare heart defect so I totally get the unicorn child terror. I think of my beloved husband who is currently immunocompromised and I want to scream at the world PLEASE do everything you can to help him.

Then I look around and have to admit that the public/society call it what you will, have been generally awesome in the way they’ve followed mitigations and had their lives turned upside down since the beginning of the outbreak. Aren’t they entitled to a bit of normality now? My head says yes and my heart screams no! So how do we square the circle?

I’ve no idea if this idea is 1. Plausible or 2. If it would work but here goes!
Everyone who is genuinely immunocompromised or at greater risk of serious complications is given a card/ app but proof anyway. This should be a robust enough system to prevent fraud or doubt. Then if entering a shop an announcement is made, like for nut allergies on an aeroplane, and all in the shop are asked to mask up to help to save a life. This may encourage the unwilling as they can be easily identified! This could work at restaurants- seated next to an open window or in a secluded booth etc. At a cinema, people near asked to mask or move, not acceptable if the immunocompromised choose to sit next to them only if they choose to sit next to you. Same in sports stadiums where the organisers could be warned in advance. Maybe it would work on public transport too.
Could work at Disney leaving gaps between riders and asking for social distancing in queues, not pushing to the front just a gap or a mask!

No it wouldn’t be perfect, may not even be possible but perhaps a compromise where the people asked to mask would understand the reason and know that it was for the benefit of a vulnerable person and the vulnerable person could retake their place in society, even if occasionally, with more confidence.

Surely we have to make it work somehow?

 

[havoc315]

The 70% you two are arguing over.

Is that enough now that delta is here?

Honestly, probably not.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

This is so tragic on every level and probably/hopefully sums up the feelings of the majority of people. It certainly does for me, including the tears.

I think of our daughter who died as a baby of a very rare heart defect so I totally get the unicorn child terror. I think of my beloved husband who is currently immunocompromised and I want to scream at the world PLEASE do everything you can to help him.

Then I look around and have to admit that the public/society call it what you will, have been generally awesome in the way they’ve followed mitigations and had their lives turned upside down since the beginning of the outbreak. Aren’t they entitled to a bit of normality now? My head says yes and my heart screams no! So how do we square the circle?

I’ve no idea if this idea is 1. Plausible or 2. If it would work but here goes!
Everyone who is genuinely immunocompromised or at greater risk of serious complications is given a card/ app but proof anyway. This should be a robust enough system to prevent fraud or doubt. Then if entering a shop an announcement is made, like for nut allergies on an aeroplane, and all in the shop are asked to mask up to help to save a life. This may encourage the unwilling as they can be easily identified! This could work at restaurants- seated next to an open window or in a secluded booth etc. At a cinema, people near asked to mask or move, not acceptable if the immunocompromised choose to sit next to them only if they choose to sit next to you. Same in sports stadiums where the organisers could be warned in advance. Maybe it would work on public transport too.
Could work at Disney leaving gaps between riders and asking for social distancing in queues, not pushing to the front just a gap or a mask!

No it wouldn’t be perfect, may not even be possible but perhaps a compromise where the people asked to mask would understand the reason and know that it was for the benefit of a vulnerable person and the vulnerable person could retake their place in society, even if occasionally, with more confidence.

Surely we have to make it work somehow?

I love your idea, but people are just too selfish.

My town (wooded suburbs) is now (yet again) in the annual battle of the ponds.

There was land bequeathed to the town many, many years ago that included beaches surrounding a series of ponds with the stipulation that the land be made available for use by the public, not just people who live here. Well, some jack- has been advertising the area in cities and urban areas as far as 70 miles away...so now every year we have an influx of a-holes who literally trash the entire area, including defecating and urinating in the privately owned yards they walk past to get to the beaches (they park a 1/2 mile away and walk in so they don't have to pay for parking). Broken glass, toilet paper and feces all along the wooded walking paths, dirty diapers everywhere (even stuffed into holes in trees)...it's disgusting. Not to mention that they over-run the place to the point that very few tax-paying locals (or people who paid for their parking and/or swimming lessons) are able to get in. They blast loud music the entire time they're there. They burn the picnic tables with their hibachis and portable grills. They leave trash and bottles in the pond water (and I don't want to think about what else).

MANY of us locals (including the people who paid premium prices for the lake-front real estate in the community surrounding this park) want the use limited to people who live here. But there are always a handful of people who don't care about the damage inflicted, the costs incurred by clean-ups, or the fact that locals can't even use the area and want it kept open to the general public.

ETA: They already removed all the charcoal grills that had been installed in the picnic areas because these same people were being ignorant about them (scraping hot ash onto the ground and people's feet getting burned).

 

[GoofGoof]

I thought this thread was on Covid and Disney. Maybe some of you need to take a break for a while. It’s just a constant back and forth and you’ll never agree.

My wife and I will be going to Disney next month for our anniversary. I look forward to having a glass of wine from atop the California Grill and watching the fireworks.

The past 18 months have shown me that life’s too short and enjoy what you have because it will be gone before you know.

I don’t disagree at all and find myself sucked back in repeatedly…so guilty of being part of the problem. As I said a few months back when we really started to see the impact of the vaccines on cases and mitigations there was an increase in the level of hostility here which I described as the last dying gasps of people hell bent on continuing the arguments they saw slipping away.

I agree with your sentiment that life is too short and at least for me personally I did everything I could to keep myself and my family safe during Covid: I followed CDC recommendations, I masked and distanced, I avoided crowds and didn’t travel, I didn’t see my family on Holidays, I got the vaccine as soon as eligible and all that was based on the CDC and public health expert‘s recommendations. Now I’m following the advice of the same group of experts I’ve followed from day 1 that say it’s safe to travel again and see family and not wear a mask in public. Our return to normal is something to be embraced and celebrated and the vaccines are a modern day miracle that should also be celebrated.

Enjoy your trip. I will be at WDW in August too but I doubt my kids will allow me a quiet evening at California Grill even though that sounds like a fantastic plan. If we are there at the same time I’ll be the tiny speck you see in the hub by the castle during the fireworks

 

[hopemax]

I always knew America had a hefty anti-vaccination group, but I truly never thought they’d have enough reach and strength to infiltrate so many with misinformation and doubt. Because of that machine, only 55% of Americans have at least 1 dose. It’s shocking.

What happened to America?

It's the privilege. But we're not supposed to talk about how even the poorest person is privileged in some ways. The "floor" Americans have in 2021 is so much higher than any other point in human history. We've talked before about how modern humans have lost their fear of infectious diseases due to our success stories in medicine and especially vaccination. This floor gives us the ability to be wrong about many things without consequence. We want to think karma is a real thing, but it's obvious that just because a bad consequence didn't happen doesn't mean people reacted appropriately. Or doing the right thing won't spare you from the bad consequence.

Since COVID-19 turned out not be the Cat 4 hurricane that was feared and was more of a Cat 1 or Cat 2, and only those that lived in the equivalent of "low lying areas with inadequate structures and services" had damage, everyone else got to wrap themselves up in their ignorance & hubris instead of getting smacked in the face. People brag about not even knowing someone who got sick, so it can't have been anything major. And now they're standing behind a bunch of other people in full armor throwing insults toward a loaded weapon assuming that whatever happens won't reach them because of how emboldened they feel.

The John Steinbeck quote at the end of The American Adventure is prescient. We unfortunately live at a time where people think they can do whatever they want, and somehow law, order, society will continue to function and if for some reason it doesn't, their "rugged individualism" will let them outrun the people who the beast will devour. In spite of all the insanity coming from the 20-30%, I am however reassured by the dedication and commitment shown by an equal or greater amount of individuals. The 20-30% are revealing themselves to be unable to correctly detect hazards or miracles when they are placed in front of them, and eventually "the house always wins" and they will bust. Even if we don't survive long enough to see it.

 

[LaughingGravy]

I always knew America had a hefty anti-vaccination group, but I truly never thought they’d have enough reach and strength to infiltrate so many with misinformation and doubt. Because of that machine, only 55% of Americans have at least 1 dose. It’s shocking.

What happened to America?

IMO, it started about 15 years ago. I can't pinpoint anything specific, but that's when the whole idea of "you have to respect my beliefs" started to get out of hand. It's been a slow rise, but it also had a lot to do with the increase of internet bubbles of people in small groups feeding on each others fears, also accepting downright strange ideas as things to be believed.

The fact that a previously crazy idea "has not been disproven" must mean there's something to it started to take hold as being accepted. The same people who believed nonsense didn't interact with real people to get other perspectives. They stayed in their bubbles of online friends of like minds (mom's basement).
Add to that the ideas of "mainstream media" and "fake news" being repeated, by those in authority it shouldn't have come from, things amplified in recent years.

I also blame the lack of civics, music (and musical instrumentation classes) and real world skills such as Home Ec and Shop ( wood, metal, and auto) being taught in public schools. Many of those seem to have been dropped in favor of either much easier ( ping pong, I kid you not) or a leap the other way to focus on STEM or a combination, when those things are not for everybody starting at the middle school level.

In grammar school, we were introduced to musical instruments and associated lessons, which led to band, and orchestra and wind ensemble and choir, which led to musicals.
There was a music lesson of some type every week starting in first grade. In those songs were history.
Instruments were not purchased except by a few at the start. Most were loaned or rented until a kid showed real interest, and much of that was fed by pressure from other kids to do it right.
With music education, there were better grades as well as a learning and interest of history and literature beyond just the classroom through music as well as musicals that showed how different people got along.
Think of "South Pacific" and "The King and I" as two examples just about history. In and of themselves, they are not history lessons, but they helped to educate not only those producing the show, but their friends and family who maybe only watched and got a taste of other things.

 

[correcaminos]

I’m not overly concerned about unmasked vaccinated people. I am concerned about the non-vaccinated pretending that they are vaccinated and going unmasked because there’s nothing to stop them from doing so, since places do not require proof of vaccination. I am vaccinated, and I continue to go into stores with masks because I do not trust that everyone in the store who is unmasked is vaccinated, and I need to do what I can to protect my daughter.

we have an older relative who refuses to vaccinate. She has literally said her smallpox vaccine will protect her. She has been hanging out indoors with other non-vaccinated people for months. She has been told she does not get to be indoors with our daughter until either she or our daughter is vaccinated. Since she lives many hours away, this essentially means she can’t see her right now. She doesn’t like it, and I have empathy for that, but it’s her choice.

Such concerns lessen significantly once access to a vaccine for under 12 is possible.

I am a singer too, and singing masked is definitely not fun. I have been teaching my early childhood music classes online since last March (now taking a break because I had foot surgery). If we return in the fall in person, it’ll likely be outdoors, so won’t need to mask - and I am ok with that. (assuming my foot is good to go for dancing and movement on grass by then). But I would not be inclined to return to in person classes indoors right now with kids not having access to the vaccine and knowing how much more transmissible delta is, unless DD were also vaccinated. Then, again, my concerns lessen significantly.

Again thanks for your replies. I truly am curious how people like you really feel. If I had a high risk family member at home, I likely would be doing as you do as well. The unvaxxed unmasked worry me too. Not directly but indirectly for loved ones. I am lucky that there are no high risk in my immediate house and we all have been vaccinated.

I do believe that whenever the next step, it will be 5-11. So preschool and below may have to wait. Interestingly enough, I see a lot fighting the 5-12 range saying we should vaccinate. Knowing this I really feel for parents like you. I hope there is as little wait as possible!

My 13yo loves music and took choir and band. When the weather was nice, the played and sang outside. Choir always with a mask. I obviously use masks when needed for singing, but boy is it a pain! So good luck when you resume. And I truly hope you will have less to worry about in the fall!

I thought this thread was on Covid and Disney. Maybe some of you need to take a break for a while. It’s just a constant back and forth and you’ll never agree.

My wife and I will be going to Disney next month for our anniversary. I look forward to having a glass of wine from atop the California Grill and watching the fireworks.

The past 18 months have shown me that life’s too short and enjoy what you have because it will be gone before you know.

I hope you have a great trip!

I don’t disagree at all and find myself sucked back in repeatedly…so guilty of being part of the problem. As I said a few months back when we really started to see the impact of the vaccines on cases and mitigations there was an increase in the level of hostility here which I described as the last dying gasps of people hell bent on continuing the arguments they saw slipping away.

I agree with your sentiment that life is too short and at least for me personally I did everything I could to keep myself and my family safe during Covid: I followed CDC recommendations, I masked and distanced, I avoided crowds and didn’t travel, I didn’t see my family on Holidays, I got the vaccine as soon as eligible and all that was based on the CDC and public health expert‘s recommendations. Now I’m following the advice of the same group of experts I’ve followed from day 1 that say it’s safe to travel again and see family and not wear a mask in public. Our return to normal is something to be embraced and celebrated and the vaccines are a modern day miracle that should also be celebrated.

Enjoy your trip. I will be at WDW in August too but I doubt my kids will allow me a quiet evening at California Grill even though that sounds like a fantastic plan. If we are there at the same time I’ll be the tiny speck you see in the hub by the castle during the fireworks

Well stated!

 

[LaughingGravy]

I don’t disagree at all and find myself sucked back in repeatedly…so guilty of being part of the problem. As I said a few months back when we really started to see the impact of the vaccines on cases and mitigations there was an increase in the level of hostility here which I described as the last dying gasps of people hell bent on continuing the arguments they saw slipping away.

I see those last gasps as ego that nobody likes to be wrong and too much of a tolerance of others quietly respecting those beliefs (at least on the surface) and simply agreeing to disagree as a way to diffuse. I was guilty of that for a while.
My tolerance for nonsense is now quite low compared to what it used to be.
I had a relative who not only denied for the longest time that the virus was a real problem because she didn't know anyone personally who had it, who then eventually took it seriously ( boomer got the vax), but then proceeded to try pin it on 44. I blew up at that one.

 

[KrzyKtty]

IMO, it started about 15 years ago. I can't pinpoint anything specific, but that's when the whole idea of "you have to respect my beliefs" started to get out of hand. It's been a slow rise, but it also had a lot to do with the increase of internet bubbles of people in small groups feeding on each others fears, also accepting downright strange ideas as things to be believed.

The fact that a previously crazy idea "has not been disproven" must mean there's something to it started to take hold as being accepted. The same people who believed nonsense didn't interact with real people to get other perspectives. They stayed in their bubbles of online friends of like minds (mom's basement).
Add to that the ideas of "mainstream media" and "fake news" being repeated, by those in authority it shouldn't have come from, things amplified in recent years.

I also blame the lack of civics, music (and musical instrumentation classes) and real world skills such as Home Ec and Shop ( wood, metal, and auto) being taught in public schools. Many of those seem to have been dropped in favor of either much easier ( ping pong, I kid you not) or a leap the other way to focus on STEM or a combination, when those things are not for everybody starting at the middle school level.

In grammar school, we were introduced to musical instruments and associated lessons, which led to band, and orchestra and wind ensemble and choir, which led to musicals.
There was a music lesson of some type every week starting in first grade. In those songs were history.
Instruments were not purchased except by a few at the start. Most were loaned or rented until a kid showed real interest, and much of that was fed by pressure from other kids to do it right.
With music education, there were better grades as well as a learning and interest of history and literature beyond just the classroom through music as well as musicals that showed how different people got along.
Think of "South Pacific" and "The King and I" as two examples just about history. In and of themselves, they are not history lessons, but they helped to educate not only those producing the show, but their friends and family who maybe only watched and got a taste of other things.

I think the section in Bold here is very dependent on where you live. I live in a state that is frequently somewhere the bottom 3 for education in the US. However, all high schools in our area still have musicals (baring COVID). My rising 7th grader has had music every week since Kindergarten, and has been learning the Trumpet since 5th grade. My daughter should be learning the Recorder this year as a 3rd grader. Music and art are still very much a part of the general curriculum. Do they have STEM centered lessons, yes. But the local HS woodworking class builds a house every year for Habitat for Humanity, and the other shop classes help. They have an auto class that offers low cost repairs to Teachers and locals willing to risk their car to a bunch of HS students. So what you talked about above is very much a problem at some schools, but not everywhere.

Often times what you mention is more a problem of funding. The fact that schools are funded by local taxes for the most part, and therefore dependent on the social class surrounding the school, is stupid.

 

[CarolinaSoprano]

I just want to give some insight on the young adults who won't get vaccinated. My two older kids (24&20) are not vaccinated. Myself, husband, and the two younger ones (12&14) are. Yes I have tried convincing them. Really tried. Tried again today with my 20 year old who just drove off back to his college apartment. I get met with "stop it mom, I'm not old mom, Hunter (their cousin-20) had it and was fine, nobody I know got sick mom, I don't need it mom" They just don't think covid matters. Now-what would make them get it is a stimulus for vaccination. That I can bet on. Give these young adults $1200 and they would gladly line up for their check/shot. $1200 means 4 months rent for my son in his off campus apartment. He'd be thrilled to have those months covered.

 

[LittleBuford]

I just want to give some insight on the young adults who won't get vaccinated. My two older kids (24&20) are not vaccinated. Myself, husband, and the two younger ones (12&14) are. Yes I have tried convincing them. Really tried. Tried again today with my 20 year old who just drove off back to his college apartment. I get met with "stop it mom, I'm not old mom, Hunter (their cousin-20) had it and was fine, nobody I know got sick mom, I don't need it mom" They just don't think covid matters. Now-what would make them get it is a stimulus for vaccination. That I can bet on. Give these young adults $1200 and they would gladly line up for their check/shot. $1200 means 4 months rent for my son in his off campus apartment. He'd be thrilled to have those months covered.

Have you considered offering them money yourself? (Serious question!)