Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[drizgirl]

What happens when both are no longer in place?

Are we going to unvaccinate some people?

 

[sullyinMT]

What happens when both are no longer in place?

India. India happens. So, unless you want a world where the stench of a funeral pyre endlessly burns, stop with the nonsense. If you want honest discussion, try a different angle. There’s actually plenty of lively debate in this thread, but very few have a tolerance for adolescent, nonsensical arguments.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

So when he supports masks, he’s following science and when he says they should be coming to an end, he’s under political pressure.

That’s not really what he said, and yes to both.

 

[FormerMember]

India. India happens. So, unless you want a world where the stench of a funeral pyre endlessly burns, stop with the nonsense. If you want honest discussion, try a different angle. There’s actually plenty of lively debate in this thread, but very few have a tolerance for adolescent, nonsensical arguments.

No. India doesn’t happen. Not in a 1st world country with 1st world healthcare.

 

[havoc315]

The parameters led to guidelines. The guidelines have been nothing more than theater. People championed the guidelines of temperature screening and constant cleaning and disinfecting surfaces. They demanded it to keep everyone safe. Now, the same people all agree that temperature screening and cleaning surfaces is a waste of time and resources.

The CDC has flip flopped and quietly changed numbers more times than I can count. They recently dropped covid deaths by 5% and even changed the numbers on comorbidity, but nobodies talking about that.

????? None of that is true.

And I'm not saying masks offer nothing. But it's been 14 months since "2 weeks to slow the spread" and by now,

That was White House messaging, not the CDC, because the White House (at the time) was unwilling to go with the full guidance.

EVERYBODY has come into contact with covid in one form or another.

That again, is false. I know countless people who have barely left their home for the last year.

And I'm not even going to bother responding to your QAnon anti-mask nonsense.

 

[FormerMember]

That’s not really what he said, and yes to both.

I have a question for you, you want mandates because it’s easier for you to make customers wear masks at your store that way. Weight of the law and all that. Fine.

Here’s the question. Joe Corona comes in, he’s Covid +.

What do you calculate your odds of catching Rona from him are....

1. Both Masked

2. You masked, Joe Unmasked.

 

[hopemax]

I think the explanations offered here about why surges occur are reasonable, but they're not predictive. It's hindsight. So we don't know if the next surge will be in Texas, Mississippi, Africa, Japan, or all of the above. And unless you can predict that, all of this talk about how you personally knew this would happen is not that helpful. I didn't hear anyone saying, "watch out, Michigan!" a few months ago.

Yes, of course vaccines help us stop surges, and so far they are only thing that actually works. But as we can see, we have some challenges there. So we don't know what will happen in areas with lower vaccination rates, or when.

I objected to your word "weird." Of course, you can't predict which one exactly. But I will say that when I first heard weird virus and China, I immediately knew which west coast cities were at risk. People who study human migrations would be able to generate lists of travel corridors that needed surveillance. Then know what cities have increased visitors from the UK, Brazil, India or wherever. Us not knowing, doesn't mean that somebody doesn't know. But that will not be the type of info that makes it into the news because if it went to Buffalo and not Detroit or Seattle not Los Angeles, people would be crucified. We know the governor of Michigan has been taking things more seriously than most states, until the state Supreme Court did a run-around. I don't think health officials in Michigan were nearly as surprised as the residents of Michigan. There is far more info out there to those who need to know it. The rest of us are supposed to trust in people who have better access, but instead people took the absence of a problem at a specific moment, as proof that nothing would happen in the future.

 

[danlb_2000]

The parameters led to guidelines. The guidelines have been nothing more than theater. People championed the guidelines of temperature screening and constant cleaning and disinfecting surfaces. They demanded it to keep everyone safe. Now, the same people all agree that temperature screening and cleaning surfaces is a waste of time and resources.

The CDC has flip flopped and quietly changed numbers more times than I can count. They recently dropped covid deaths by 5% and even changed the numbers on comorbidity, but nobodies talking about that.

And I'm not saying masks offer nothing. But it's been 14 months since "2 weeks to slow the spread" and by now, EVERYBODY has come into contact with covid in one form or another. And let's dispense with any pleasant thoughts that people are wearing masks to prevent spreading the virus. People wear the masks because they think it may prevent them from getting covid, which again, they've already come in contact with. Go to any shopping center or busy area and see how many masks are carelessly discarded on the ground, even within ten feet from a trash can. If people were wearing the mask to protect those around them they would not be so haphazard with discarding of their germ infested mask that they've been breathing in and leaving hanging on their rearview mirror baking in the Sun for days on end.

Which also brings up the question of why has there never been any strict protocol for discarding masks? These are the most germ infested things on the planet which are not only carrying germs from covid but Lord knows what else yet there is no strict protocol for how to discard them or any type of containment system.

They are however polluting our oceans and popping up in random places where they're being discarded and dumped by trash companies or they're just left to rot on the ground. Why is the CDC and Fauci not issuing guidelines for discarding these absolutely disgusting germ infested pieces of fabric that contain "the most deadly virus" we've seen in several generations?

Why? Because it's theater.

Why? Because this is the way science works, we make theories based on what we know and then adjust them as we learn more. With a brand new virus sweeping through the world you can't wait until you are sure about the answers before you give them. You do what is best with the data you had at the time. Of course guidance is going to change as we learn more, I don't see how anyone could think otherwise.

As for disposal of masks, it's not like this is some sort of radioactive waste. You aren't going to get sick from walking past a contaminated mask. Most people are smart enough to know that they should throw them in the trash when they are done with them. For the people who don't, no amount of CDC guidelines is going to change the behavior.

 

[sullyinMT]

Why not? If other countries can do that, why can't the US?

What makes us so inferior to other nations?

Personal opinion, especially having no experience with Israel personally. The biggest difference in a sea of perceived differences is Israel’s mandatory service to the country. It causes a deep-seeded sense of teamwork to be a part of something like military service. In no way does it cause people to think in lock-step, but it does foster a sense of “greater good.” Perhaps it has something to do with Israel’s relatively low adult vaccine hesitancy. The large amount of people in the US military and its supporting industries during WWII earned them the monicker of our greatest generation. I’m sure they didn’t all support every cause together, but they knew how to treat each other and work toward a goal. Fast forward to today and even service to our country via the armed forces has been an attempted use of political posturing. So, in short, our current socio-political state is the deck we’re given, and what a few posters (myself included) are resigned to observe in their fellow American. We just have to try and bring along as many as possible to end this pandemic in the best way the US likely can.

 

[HarperRose]

Why not? If other countries can do that, why can't the US?

What makes us so inferior to other nations?

What makes us inferior? A very vocal and ignorant part of the population who continues to barf anti-science and anti-expert rhetoric.

 

[sullyinMT]

No. India doesn’t happen. Not in a 1st world country with 1st world healthcare.

NYC metro last spring would like a word. Italy and Spain might need a translator, but would join the conversation, too. Without the relatively harsh mitigation enacted there it was quickly spiraling in that direction.
Anyway, we have a dang good shot at actually getting ahead of our next wave and turning it into a little crest (nationally). We even have a legitimate shot of holding off that wave with way less suggested mitigation than we have currently, if people continue going out and getting their free and (mostly) easily accessible vaccine.

 

[FormerMember]

Interesting. New Jersey must be filled up with these anti-Vax Muh Freedom types.

 

[FormerMember]

NYC metro last spring would like a word.

I live here. We were never India. Never even close.

 

[mmascari]

And yes, the race isn't over. There can still be spikes, but by and large, there is enough vaccinated population that the virus is going to struggle to get a foothold in the U.S. and we've seen that play out in the states that have opened. This is not herd immunity, where the virus dies off because it just can't find a host to jump to. Herd immunity in a global world may be impossible or decades away.

Regionally, between area's with some restrictions on travel between them, herd immunity can happen at different rates.

That's driver behind vaccination records when crossing those borders, anytime someone moves from an area of larger spread to less.

So, between NY and NJ, or even NY and OK, there will be no difference. Both will trend to the same result over time. But, between the US and some other country, they can be at different levels. Nobody in the US get's a TB vaccine, yet TB spread isn't rampant in the US. Conversely, TB spread is rampant in some countries. Travelers from those countries to the US are required to mitigate, so they don't bring it here. Likewise, travelers from the US have to mitigate if they go and are returning. TB is easier to contact trace and spot fast enough, so it's easier to contain after the fact than COVID will be, even in an unvaccinated population.

We don't need global all on the same schedule. Different areas will get there faster. Presumably wealthier countries will get there first, just like everything else.

 

[havoc315]

Personal opinion, especially having no experience with Israel personally. The biggest difference in a sea of perceived differences is Israel’s mandatory service to the country. It causes a deep-seeded sense of teamwork to be a part of something like military service. In no way does it cause people to think in lock-step, but it does foster a sense of “greater good.”

You do indeed know very little of Israel, which is even more polarized than the United States. They haven't even been able to get it together to form a government in the last 2 years. Between the radical right settlers, the religious zealots, the secular centrists, the Israeli Arabs, you think they are more unified than the United States?

They hit 60% vaccination. You really think we can't ever do the same in this country??

 

[havoc315]

What makes us inferior? A very vocal and ignorant part of the population who continues to barf anti-science and anti-expert rhetoric.

Which is why we need vaccine passports, but now we are going in circles.

 

[ABQ]

What makes us inferior? A very vocal and ignorant part of the population who continues to barf anti-science and anti-expert rhetoric.

I think the more appropriate question may be, what makes us more complicated than other nations? To compare the US to Israel is not at all an apples to apples comparison. Even if adjusted for size an population, you are comparing one of the most strict nations to enter and exit vs a 48 state (continental US) nation with 48 different governing bodies open to one another. Possibly, you could compare the US with the EU as a whole, but I'm not sure what sort of travel they have been allowing between each nation either, but when you see the up and down cases from France, Italy, Spain, Greece and so forth you get a better grasp of a group of bordering areas all dealing with similar struggles as the US has.

 

[havoc315]

NYC metro last spring would like a word. Italy and Spain might need a translator, but would join the conversation, too. Without the relatively harsh mitigation enacted there it was quickly spiraling in that direction.
Anyway, we have a dang good shot at actually getting ahead of our next wave and turning it into a little crest (nationally). We even have a legitimate shot of holding off that wave with way less suggested mitigation than we have currently, if people continue going out and getting their free and (mostly) easily accessible vaccine.

While I suspect India is dramatically under-counting cases and deaths, their per capita numbers are still significantly better than the US, Italy, etc.

 

[wdisney9000]

India. India happens. So, unless you want a world where the stench of a funeral pyre endlessly burns, stop with the nonsense. If you want honest discussion, try a different angle. There’s actually plenty of lively debate in this thread, but very few have a tolerance for adolescent, nonsensical arguments.

Temper temper.... I simply asked a question and you're telling me that asking a question is nonsense? No need to go full tilt totalitarian.

You and many others here apparently only subscribe to a certain sect of data and any data that does not fall in line with your fear based agenda that you have been programmed with is labeled as nonsense and you all form up like Voltron to attack anybody that isn't as afraid as you. The only problem is you're not Voltron. It comes off more like a bunch of raccoons tugging at a trash bag to get something out of it.

 

[danlb_2000]

Interesting. New Jersey must be filled up with these anti-Vax Muh Freedom types.

View attachment 556267

Despite this, as a whole NJ is doing very good in vaccinations. We are currently 7th is percentage of population completely vaccinated at 41.5%.