Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
And this... the reasons the vaccines lack full approval currently is because we don't yet have long-term efficacy data. They can't be approved fully until we know if boosters are needed. But they have all the safety and short-term efficacy data that is needed.
Pfizer and Moderna are saying that they have the six-month data.
Source: https://www.10news.com/news/coronav...val-would-impact-vaccine-mandates-competition
(They probably have press releases on it but I'm too lazy to look it up.)
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Regarding herd immunity, there was an interesting story on the state of the vaccination process on NPR today with Dr. Ali Khan, dean of the College of Public Health at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.



Right now, it's just the audio. A transcript will be added later. Dr. Khan is asked about herd immunity near the end of the four minute interview. His stance is that herd immunity is a "false idol" with regard to COVID, that it's only really relevant when talking about things like Polio and Measles.T Coronaviruses just don't work that way.

The idea is to vaccinate as many people as you can to get numbers as low as you can. There isn't going to be point where it's eliminated, just managed. Follow public health guidelines and vaccinate and you can have very low incidence and a fairly normal life.

The interviewer had to cut off the interview too quickly and Dr. Khan didn't really get a chance to explain what he was saying. It might have been an interesting interview if they gave Dr. Khan more time but with the way they cut him off I left with the feeling that he spoke but didn't really say anything.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
I misspoke it a combination of fully vaccinated and 1st doses: the 15-24 age is hard to narrow down their population
15-24yo 202652 full & 313518 1st shots divided by a population of 1532025=33.69%
25-34yo 370439 full & 369078 1st shots divided by a population of 2764003=26.76%
Where are you getting the population numbers? I calculated it out of the case report using the number of deaths and mortality rate per 100k population for each age range? I get a 15-24 yo population of 2,529,412 and a 25-34 yo population of 2,828,125.

Using my calculations, the total population of FL is 21,550,621. Wikipedia has it at 21,730,000 so I don't think my method can be off by a million people in any decade long age range. My errors should only be in the rounding done when the State publishes the mortality rate per 100k because I'm not working with enough decimal places.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
I found it, but it really is just one sentence. If I had to bet I would guess they thought it was over reaching to keep a business from choosing it's customers by vaccination status, but who knows? I would have to believe the incident with the insane school owner would be pretty rare. Here is the amendment.


But they already passed a law forbidding businesses from choosing it's customers by vaccination status, it is just one sided, you can't deny them access if they haven't been vaccinated.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Some bad news for the doom and gloom crowd 😎🎉🤠

The question is will we get there. These next people are going to be tough. I really think the # is 60%. We need to have the vaccinations stop dropping so fast, 12-15 should add 5% with the first wave of vaccines but we still need an additional 10% from adults.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
With respect to States of Emergency I think the State can supersede any "political subdivision." In general, a "political subdivision" can have local ordinances as long as they do not conflict with State law. Kind of like after Hurricane Andrew when Miami-Dade county implemented stricter building codes than the State required.

Another example (making up numbers), if the State fire code allows for a capacity of .5 people per square foot and a county wants to set it a 0.25 people per square foot, they can do that.

What they can't do is decide this week to pass an ordinance that cuts restaurant capacity in half since the State level EO does not allow cutting capacity by an order by a "political subdivision." Passing the ordinance would be considered an ex post facto law and could not be applied to existing restaurants.

So this means the state has ultimate authority. In your fire code example they could change the state level code to say capacity must be .5 people per square foot, not more and no less.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
It won’t be possible to require for the next school year starting Fall 2021 since all school age kids won’t be eligible and by Fall 2022 the vaccines will be fully approved but hopefully we won’t need to mandate them by then.
The private High School in town is requiring it for Fall 2021.

My kid doesn't go there, so I don't know how the exact details. Only that one of my kids friends does and will need to get one before next year. That same school tests the kids every time they go on campus. Probably the safest friend for mine to hang out with, since they're tested so often.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The question is will we get there. These next people are going to be tough. I really think the # is 60%. We need to have the vaccinations stop dropping so fast, 12-15 should add 5% with the first wave of vaccines but we still need an additional 10% from adults.
Yep, that’s the trick. We are at 45%, 12-15 gets us to around 50% and then we need 33M more adults to go in to get to 60%. If pace holds and states actually try a little (some are not) then maybe we get there in early June. If the pace of adults going drops to half where it is today it may take until the end of June. The point is we shouldn’t just give up on vaccinations and accept these clickbait headlines that we have no hope. The other thing to consider is cases can and will drop off before we reach 60% vaccinated. We may be seeing the start of the drop off already in states that have crossed over 50% of the population vaccinated. So it’s not like we have to wait until June or July to see the results.

On the down side we may see great results regionally but not everywhere so there could be outbreaks and surges in cases for a while in areas where vaccination levels struggle to top 50%.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The private High School in town is requiring it for Fall 2021.

My kid doesn't go there, so I don't know how the exact details. Only that one of my kids friends does and will need to get one before next year. That same school tests the kids every time they go on campus. Probably the safest friend for mine to hang out with, since they're tested so often.
Assuming the 12-15 approval comes in next week as expected I could see that at the High School level. For public schools it may be more of an uphill battle but it could happen.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
The private High School in town is requiring it for Fall 2021.

My kid doesn't go there, so I don't know how the exact details. Only that one of my kids friends does and will need to get one before next year. That same school tests the kids every time they go on campus. Probably the safest friend for mine to hang out with, since they're tested so often.
And there is a school in Miami that will fire a teacher if they get vaccinated. People....
 

DisneyFan32

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
Yep, that’s the trick. We are at 45%, 12-15 gets us to around 50% and then we need 33M more adults to go in to get to 60%. If pace holds and states actually try a little (some are not) then maybe we get there in early June. If the pace of adults going drops to half where it is today it may take until the end of June. The point is we shouldn’t just give up on vaccinations and accept these clickbait headlines that we have no hope. The other thing to consider is cases can and will drop off before we reach 60% vaccinated. We may be seeing the start of the drop off already in states that have crossed over 50% of the population vaccinated. So it’s not like we have to wait until June or July to see the results.

On the down side we may see great results regionally but not everywhere so there could be outbreaks and surges in cases for a while in areas where vaccination levels struggle to top 50%.
Is the outbreaks and surges will get worse if we will reach herd immunity this summer/fall and winter? As we will herd immunity as 75% or 80% people got vaccinated?
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
I misspoke it a combination of fully vaccinated and 1st doses: the 15-24 age is hard to narrow down their population
15-24yo 202652 full & 313518 1st shots divided by a population of 1532025=33.69%
25-34yo 370439 full & 369078 1st shots divided by a population of 2764003=26.76%

Where are you getting the population numbers? I calculated it out of the case report using the number of deaths and mortality rate per 100k population for each age range? I get a 15-24 yo population of 2,529,412 and a 25-34 yo population of 2,828,125.

Using my calculations, the total population of FL is 21,550,621. Wikipedia has it at 21,730,000 so I don't think my method can be off by a million people in any decade long age range. My errors should only be in the rounding done when the State publishes the mortality rate per 100k because I'm not working with enough decimal places.
Yeah, I also wonder about Patcheslee's 15-24 age. I just used this for a rough estimate http://edr.state.fl.us/content/population-demographics/data/pop_census_day.pdf . 2020 is just projected, but for age 15-24 you would get 2,555,315 people, which is over a million different than Patcheslees, and close to DisneyCane's. You'd have to go back to the 1980 census to get a number as low as 1.5 million for that age group. That's the erroneous one.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
So this means the state has ultimate authority. In your fire code example they could change the state level code to say capacity must be .5 people per square foot, not more and no less.
Yes, the State legislature (I'm assuming in all States but talking about FL here) has the power to supersede any "political subdivision" in the State if they want to.

What they did in SB 2006 is to statutorily remove a lot of the power from "political subdivisions" with respect to non-weather related emergencies. Effective July 1, all local emergency orders will only be allowed to remain in effect for 42 days. Only orders from the Governor can last longer.

The County where I live (Broward) declared the local State of Emergency on 3/1/20. If this law had been on the books last year, Broward would not have been allowed to have that emergency order or any "substantially similar" order effective after 4/11/20. After that date, only the Governor's EOs would have applied.

Because of the way the law was written previously, the Counties may win in court if they challenged the Governor's power to end the local EOs at this point in time. However, on July 1, the Governor is explicitly given this power by law so they'd only get eight weeks more anyway.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
bill Maher has all but whined openly about how inconvenienced his life is now...

he also said covid wouldn’t be a problem If “everyone ate healthy and wasn’t fat”

and weed helps everything.

He’s not what you would expect in many ways. But also not a desantis backer. This one thing is Convenient for him.
If Internet click-bait were to take human form, its name tag would say: Bill Maher.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Thank you for a small dose of positivity! :D
I’m trying. I have lost most of my faith in humanity at this point, but I am still all in on the vaccines. I think it’s too early to give up on people getting vaccinated. As a matter of fact I actually think the growing narrative that people have stopped getting vaccinated is definitely hurting the vaccination process. People are sheep (all of us to some extent). If the people who aren’t vaccinated are blasted day after day with headlines talking about how nobody is getting vaccinated anymore they will be less likely to go in themselves. The fact is we are still vaccinating around a million new people a day. The pace has slowed since the peak for sure but that was always expected and part of the plan and so is having appointments available everywhere. If you think of a retail analogy Jan-Mar for vaccines was like getting a PS5 around Christmas. You had to fight to have a shot. Vaccines today are like PS5 will eventually be where they are in stock at Amazon and Best Buy and Walmart and you can pick one up anywhere. Just because the stores all stock inventory doesn’t mean people aren’t buying any of them.

We need to be a little patient and wait for the process to play out. I get why people who are fully vaccinated want all restrictions dropped today and don’t want to have to wait for the stragglers but it’s such a short time left to wait. Weeks to a month in a lot of states. Keep the faith and hang in there and most importantly get your vaccine and then work on convincing your friends and family to get the shot too. We can all do our part.
 

dreday3

Well-Known Member
I’m trying. I have lost most of my faith in humanity at this point, but I am still all in on the vaccines. I think it’s too early to give up on people getting vaccinated. As a matter of fact I actually think the growing narrative that people have stopped getting vaccinated is definitely hurting the vaccination process. People are sheep (all of us to some extent). If the people who aren’t vaccinated are blasted day after day with headlines talking about how nobody is getting vaccinated anymore they will be less likely to go in themselves. The fact is we are still vaccinating around a million new people a day. The pace has slowed since the peak for sure but that was always expected and part of the plan and so is having appointments available everywhere. If you think of a retail analogy Jan-Mar for vaccines was like getting a PS5 around Christmas. You had to fight to have a shot. Vaccines today are like PS5 will eventually be where they are in stock at Amazon and Best Buy and Walmart and you can pick one up anywhere. Just because the stores all stock inventory doesn’t mean people aren’t buying any of them.

We need to be a little patient and wait for the process to play out. I get why people who are fully vaccinated want all restrictions dropped today and don’t want to have to wait for the stragglers but it’s such a short time left to wait. Weeks to a month in a lot of states. Keep the faith and hang in there and most importantly get your vaccine and then work on convincing your friends and family to get the shot too. We can all do our part.

Absolutely agree.

Basically repeating what you just said :D -Yes, vaccinations have slowed down, but of course they did. Everything starts with a deluge and ends with trickle. We are still getting a steady stream of vaccinations everyday. I have no doubt we will get to where we need to be to see cases start dropping quickly and then stay down.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Some bad news for the doom and gloom crowd 😎🎉🤠

See, you give us hope.

I'll wait for the dystopian future that arrives if hope doesn't win out. :eek:

Then, there's this:
Not without some horror-movie like level of mutation happening.
The question isn't if we get one of these or not. The question is, are we doing the things to encourage getting one of these?

Which failure of hope creates the dystopian future that encourages the horror-movie like mutation creating a vaccine resistant strain causing us to start all over?

If we knew that, then we could totally make it happen. Give it that can do attitude. o_O
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
See, you give us hope.

I'll wait for the dystopian future that arrives if hope doesn't win out. :eek:

Then, there's this:

The question isn't if we get one of these or not. The question is, are we doing the things to encourage getting one of these?

Which failure of hope creates the dystopian future that encourages the horror-movie like mutation creating a vaccine resistant strain causing us to start all over?

If we knew that, then we could totally make it happen. Give it that can do attitude. o_O
I would think enough of the population refusing to be vaccinated and giving the virus plenty of opportunity to spread.
 

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
Where are you getting the population numbers? I calculated it out of the case report using the number of deaths and mortality rate per 100k population for each age range? I get a 15-24 yo population of 2,529,412 and a 25-34 yo population of 2,828,125.

Using my calculations, the total population of FL is 21,550,621. Wikipedia has it at 21,730,000 so I don't think my method can be off by a million people in any decade long age range. My errors should only be in the rounding done when the State publishes the mortality rate per 100k because I'm not working with enough decimal places.
Site called statista I think it was. Yours sound close to what 2021 should be.
 
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