Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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danlb_2000

Premium Member
nonsense. The c-suite executive isn’t involved one way or another with putting stickers on the ground.

But you better believe the entire operations management structure is involved in planning.

Imagine Bob Chapek, without involving operations people, decided “we are re-opening Fantasmic tomorrow.”

hmmm... The Fantasmic lake is drained. One of the barges is missing. The cast needs to be recalled, rehearsals needed. Pyrotechnics need to be stocked. Re-starting something like Fantasmic would easily take 2-3 months, if not more.

In other words, this isn’t a decision the C-suite can make without involving middle management.

And it’s not just operations. Finance department evaluates the cost projections of expanding capacity vs revenue projections. Personnel departments work on making sure the right staffing is in place.

Marketing department and Corporate communications work on media issues far in advance.

etc, etc.

Plans are made months in advance. The planning stages involve hundreds of people in different departments.

It’s not everyone just sitting around waiting on Chapek to change course, and then everything changes quickly.

Everything we have seen suggests there is indeed a plan — and it’s a very slow plan.
If there was a plan to eliminate social distancing within the next 2 weeks, the sticker-placers might not know about it. But the Animal Kingdom Operations Manager would know, and he wouldn’t be wasting time assigning staff to place social distancing stickers.

Decision making in a large company like Disney can be very siloed. There could be a low level operations team charged with getting Lion King ready to open following Disney's current COVID rules. At the same time there could be high level operations people that are talking about changing the rules at some point in the near future. Until all the decisions have been made and the new rules are made, there is no reason to stop the people that are currently setting up Lion King.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
You are literally making things up to argue about. When did I say anything about Bob Chapek deciding to re-open Fantasmic tomorrow. I get it you don’t like when anyone disagrees with you so I again will just leave it as we can agree to disagree. I don’t see the fact that they are putting 6 foot stickers out for a show today that opens in 3 weeks as a sign that they definitely won’t change the distancing policy for a long time. It may change, it may not, but I wouldn’t put any stock in those stickers as a definitive sign that it won’t happen.

The only stock I put in it, as I said originally — as things stand today, they don’t plan to eliminate social distancing. That can change any time. But the plan in place right now, is a very slow return to normal.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Do you have links to the documentation of these?



 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Herd immunity is formally defined as when the r naught is below 1 so essentially each infected person infects less than 1 other person. That’s the technical, scientific definition not just something people like me invented :). The trick is it has to be lasting. There have been periods where the r naught dropped below 1 throughout this pandemic in various places only to rise back above. So that’s why I distinguish between lasting herd immunity and just reaching the formal definition. I’ve said this numerous times in numerous posts and my take on this hasn’t changed. Herd immunity in general isn’t something that is measurable now. Just like the start and end of an economic recession (which can only be measured several quarters after it starts or ends) we will only know when we did reach herd immunity by looking back and identifying the point where the r-naught dropped below 1 for good. So right now in Israel cases are extremely low and the r-naught is well below 1 and has been since the end of February. If they have a sudden spike in cases then herd immunity hadn’t been fully reached but if they never do spike again then we will look back and say they reached herd immunity in March.

My definition is the exact definition infectious disease experts use as well. When someone says it will take 80% of the population vaccinated to reach herd immunity that’s their guess as to the level needed. They have no way of knowing if that’s the case but people reading that assume that because they are “experts” that it’s an absolute number and it definitely is not. I have seen numerous articles posted saying the US will never reach herd immunity because we will have less than 80% or 90% or whatever number the author picks vaccinated. That’s simply not a guarantee to be true. It’s not over yet, but it looks really promising that Israel has actually reached herd immunity and at a level of vaccination much lower than the 80%+ some people guessed...20%+ lower. I’m not saying we are a lock to reach it at that level either, just that it’s foolish to say we can never reach herd immunity without getting 80%+ vaccinated because there is no actual science behind that.
R naught is not R and it's also not Rt. Those are three representations of R that ID experts use to represent different things, that regular people, as you just demonstrated, are using, interchangeably. It's the Rt that has dropped below 1 at various points of the pandemic not R naught. That's why the website that was so popular was called rt.live. What Israel is doing is tracking their Rt but calling it R. When they say R is .59, they mean Rt. The snapshot observed over a specific period of time (they use the last 10 days). However, if Rt stays low, without mitigation, it infers that R has been effectively lowered, but we don't know what R can be expected for different levels of vaccination, and we're not going to know until the calculations are done later.

It also doesn't help that within ID, people do use R naught and R interchangeably. But there is a movement to use R naught strictly for the base / initial state, when 100% of a population is susceptible to a virus. And use R for a vaccinated / immune population. So yes, Israel absolutely has Rt <1, and it's likely they also have R<1. Some people will then say R naught is <1 and others will say R naught remains 5.7 and each of the variants has their own unique number.

If there is a communication failure it's not the 60/80%. It's not explaining the effect natural immunity would have on the vax level. There's a reason many industries don't let the techies talk to the customers, and IMO, that's what has been going on here. Herd Immunity is a calculable number (1–1/R0, so if R0=5.7 it's ~82.4%) It is a valid and proven mathematical formula. So the experts are relying on that for the answer because it's the thing most likely to give the correct answer. Plus, it's the one that future generations will need to maintain as we die off, and our natural immunity stops factoring in. The disconnect is because of the natural immunity. Regular people are factoring it in, and the experts aren't differentiating. The problem with saying "only need 60% vax to reach herd immunity" is that it will absolutely NOT be true in Australia, Iceland, South Korea, New Zealand, etc. Nor will it be true for Hawaii vs FL. You figure out how to tell some states they need 60% because they did so bad at avoiding community spread, but other states, you did so well avoiding infection, that your "reward" is that you need 80% or higher. It's not going to happen, they'll just say 80. Whatever we learn from Israel and the US is only valid for areas that have experienced similar infection rates. How many ticks below those previously listed countries the US ends up to the same effect, will tell us more about how many people were really infected here. The world is also watching and wanting to apply it to their own country, so that is also another element for consideration of what number to publicly say. In our case, Israel and the US are close enough 99,000/million population for us, 91,000/million population for them. But with Australia's 1158/million and NZ 552/million... vax levels are going to have to look a lot different.

I am not going to get into a back and forth with you about this, but I am putting this out there now because it demonstrates the misunderstandings that have arose and why ID folks recognize that they need a better defined terminology, like the naming of variants. What worked in papers isn't working for the rest of us.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
R naught is not R and it's also not Rt. Those are three representations of R that ID experts use to represent different things, that regular people, as you just demonstrated, are using, interchangeably. It's the Rt that has dropped below 1 at various points of the pandemic not R naught. That's why the website that was so popular was called rt.live. What Israel is doing is tracking their Rt but calling it R. When they say R is .59, they mean Rt. The snapshot observed over a specific period of time (they use the last 10 days). However, if Rt stays low, without mitigation, it infers that R has been effectively lowered, but we don't know what R can be expected for different levels of vaccination, and we're not going to know until the calculations are done later.

It also doesn't help that within ID, people do use R naught and R interchangeably. But there is a movement to use R naught strictly for the base / initial state, when 100% of a population is susceptible to a virus. And use R for a vaccinated / immune population. So yes, Israel absolutely has Rt <1, and it's likely they also have R<1. Some people will then say R naught is <1 and others will say R naught remains 5.7 and each of the variants has their own unique number.

If there is a communication failure it's not the 60/80%. It's not explaining the effect natural immunity would have on the vax level. There's a reason many industries don't let the techies talk to the customers, and IMO, that's what has been going on here. Herd Immunity is a calculable number (1–1/R0, so if R0=5.7 it's ~82.4%) It is a valid and proven mathematical formula. So the experts are relying on that for the answer because it's the thing most likely to give the correct answer. Plus, it's the one that future generations will need to maintain as we die off, and our natural immunity stops factoring in. The disconnect is because of the natural immunity. Regular people are factoring it in, and the experts aren't differentiating. The problem with saying "only need 60% vax to reach herd immunity" is that it will absolutely NOT be true in Australia, Iceland, South Korea, New Zealand, etc. Nor will it be true for Hawaii vs FL. You figure out how to tell some states they need 60% because they did so bad at avoiding community spread, but other states, you did so well avoiding infection, that your "reward" is that you need 80% or higher. It's not going to happen, they'll just say 80. Whatever we learn from Israel and the US is only valid for areas that have experienced similar infection rates. How many ticks below those previously listed countries the US ends up to the same effect, will tell us more about how many people were really infected here. The world is also watching and wanting to apply it to their own country, so that is also another element for consideration of what number to publicly say. In our case, Israel and the US are close enough 99,000/million population for us, 91,000/million population for them. But with Australia's 1158/million and NZ 552/million... vax levels are going to have to look a lot different.

I am not going to get into a back and forth with you about this, but I am putting this out there now because it demonstrates the misunderstandings that have arose and why ID folks recognize that they need a better defined terminology, like the naming of variants. What worked in papers isn't working for the rest of us.
So we agree that we won’t likely need to get to 80% vaccinated to reach herd immunity :)
 

sullyinMT

Well-Known Member

Looks like Canada and many European countries are going to require proof of vaccination for travel.
Earlier, I saw a report that US citizens would also be included in a process to be able to travel to the EU. Hopefully that holds true. We’re scheduled to be throughout the British Isles next July and I’d hate for tie ups in our political shenanigans to be the reason we cancel.

Also, I absolutely see this as the best way forward for international travel.

-Also, I’m aware of Brexit. But I’m going to assume that GB goes the way of mainland Europe on this.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
So we agree that we won’t likely need to get to 80% vaccinated to reach herd immunity
Family is in WA and I'm in CO, so it' s more likely that in my sphere, it will be closer to 80% then you in PA(?). And your great-great grandchildren will still need 80% ;)
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
R naught is not R and it's also not Rt. Those are three representations of R that ID experts use to represent different things, that regular people, as you just demonstrated, are using, interchangeably. It's the Rt that has dropped below 1 at various points of the pandemic not R naught. That's why the website that was so popular was called rt.live. What Israel is doing is tracking their Rt but calling it R. When they say R is .59, they mean Rt. The snapshot observed over a specific period of time (they use the last 10 days). However, if Rt stays low, without mitigation, it infers that R has been effectively lowered, but we don't know what R can be expected for different levels of vaccination, and we're not going to know until the calculations are done later.

It also doesn't help that within ID, people do use R naught and R interchangeably. But there is a movement to use R naught strictly for the base / initial state, when 100% of a population is susceptible to a virus. And use R for a vaccinated / immune population. So yes, Israel absolutely has Rt <1, and it's likely they also have R<1. Some people will then say R naught is <1 and others will say R naught remains 5.7 and each of the variants has their own unique number.

If there is a communication failure it's not the 60/80%. It's not explaining the effect natural immunity would have on the vax level. There's a reason many industries don't let the techies talk to the customers, and IMO, that's what has been going on here. Herd Immunity is a calculable number (1–1/R0, so if R0=5.7 it's ~82.4%) It is a valid and proven mathematical formula. So the experts are relying on that for the answer because it's the thing most likely to give the correct answer. Plus, it's the one that future generations will need to maintain as we die off, and our natural immunity stops factoring in. The disconnect is because of the natural immunity. Regular people are factoring it in, and the experts aren't differentiating. The problem with saying "only need 60% vax to reach herd immunity" is that it will absolutely NOT be true in Australia, Iceland, South Korea, New Zealand, etc. Nor will it be true for Hawaii vs FL. You figure out how to tell some states they need 60% because they did so bad at avoiding community spread, but other states, you did so well avoiding infection, that your "reward" is that you need 80% or higher. It's not going to happen, they'll just say 80. Whatever we learn from Israel and the US is only valid for areas that have experienced similar infection rates. How many ticks below those previously listed countries the US ends up to the same effect, will tell us more about how many people were really infected here. The world is also watching and wanting to apply it to their own country, so that is also another element for consideration of what number to publicly say. In our case, Israel and the US are close enough 99,000/million population for us, 91,000/million population for them. But with Australia's 1158/million and NZ 552/million... vax levels are going to have to look a lot different.

I am not going to get into a back and forth with you about this, but I am putting this out there now because it demonstrates the misunderstandings that have arose and why ID folks recognize that they need a better defined terminology, like the naming of variants. What worked in papers isn't working for the rest of us.

Amazing explanation.

I will point out though: while it is a proven mathematical formula, the actual R naught is uncertain. Especially as newer variants may have a different R naught.

Further, even calculating the level of vaccinated immunity has uncertainly, as a vaccinated person is not 100% immune.

If JNJ is 71% effective, and 100% of the population was vaccinated with JNJ, you’d actually only be at 71% immunity — potentially still shy of herd immunity though it would certainly lead to a dramatic reduction in the disease.

Then throw in the uncertainty about infection-acquired immunity — how long does it last, how effective against variants, etc.

All these factor make it very difficult to know the ultimate Vax % needed for herd immunity.

It is disheartening to watch some areas struggling to even get 40% of their population vaccinated.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
So we agree that we won’t likely need to get to 80% vaccinated to reach herd immunity :)

To reach true herd immunity, you’d need 80% immunity level.

If vaccines provide 100% immunity.
If a region had 33% of the population with naturally acquired immunity, then you’d need to vaccinate 70% of the population to get to the 80% level.

If a region had 20% of the population naturally immune, then you’d need to vaccine 75% of the population.

Ultimately, I suspect we won’t reach actual herd immunity. Instead, we will settle for “close enough.”
 

MrMcDuck

Well-Known Member
In addition to FL residents, any individual who is in Florida to provide goods or services for the benefit of residents and visitors is now eligible to be vaccinated in Florida.

Yep. It was good to see they made this official change to the wording on Thursday. No reason not to vaccinate the farmworkers even if they don't have all the right documents. It's not like this is a debate over benefits or voting. It's the best thing for the health of everyone AND there are so many vaccines just going to waste right now.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
1619928678964.png


Number of people starting their vaccine series is slowing very rapidly.

56% of adults have at least started vaccination.
At our peak, 1.8 million people were starting vaccination per day... its dropped to 1 million and still declining very very fast.

Fingers crossed that we will get to 70% of adults by mid June, but at the rate we are slowing down, it will be very difficult.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Amazing explanation.

I will point out though: while it is a proven mathematical formula, the actual R naught is uncertain. Especially as newer variants may have a different R naught.

Further, even calculating the level of vaccinated immunity has uncertainly, as a vaccinated person is not 100% immune.

If JNJ is 71% effective, and 100% of the population was vaccinated with JNJ, you’d actually only be at 71% immunity — potentially still shy of herd immunity though it would certainly lead to a dramatic reduction in the disease.

Then throw in the uncertainty about infection-acquired immunity — how long does it last, how effective against variants, etc.

All these factor make it very difficult to know the ultimate Vax % needed for herd immunity.

It is disheartening to watch some areas struggling to even get 40% of their population vaccinated.
Incorrect, the percent effective number for a vaccine is a risk reduction from a non vaccinated person. A non vaccinated person does not have a 100% chance of getting Covid when contacted, it’s much less than that.
 

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
View attachment 553909

Number of people starting their vaccine series is slowing very rapidly.

56% of adults have at least started vaccination.
At our peak, 1.8 million people were starting vaccination per day... its dropped to 1 million and still declining very very fast.

Fingers crossed that we will get to 70% of adults by mid June, but at the rate we are slowing down, it will be very difficult.
Yeah I noticed that, was hoping for at least a climb in completion after J&J was unpaused. Indiana has dropped 1st and completed doses since, coincidentally, April 13th.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Incorrect, the percent effective number for a vaccine is a risk reduction from a non vaccinated person. A non vaccinated person does not have a 100% chance of getting Covid when contacted, it’s much less than that.

??? I never said a non vaccinated person has a 100% chance of getting Covid.

I said a vaccine does not give 100% immunity. Thus, 90% of the population vaccinated with a vaccine that gives 80% immunity has the same community effect as 80% of the population given a vaccine that gives 90% immunity.
Doesn’t mean every unvaccinated person will get covid. But if you have a vaccine that confers only 50% immunity, and you give it to 100% of the population, while you’ll reduce cases significantly, you won’t achieve herd immunity.
 

DisneyFan32

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
View attachment 553909

Number of people starting their vaccine series is slowing very rapidly.

56% of adults have at least started vaccination.
At our peak, 1.8 million people were starting vaccination per day... its dropped to 1 million and still declining very very fast.

Fingers crossed that we will get to 70% of adults by mid June, but at the rate we are slowing down, it will be very difficult.
Is this chance we will wait to get back to normal even longer by summer / fall or winter as future variants ruined our lives?
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
The below Yahoo article echoes what CDC data is telling us - there's a downward trend in vaccines administered.

1619955352463.png


Orange County Major Jerry Demings announced that all mask mandates would be lifted when 70% of local residents age 16+ receive their first dose, and/or the county's 14-day rolling positivity rate drops to 5% or below. He also stated that this had been discussed with park operators.

My interpretation is that Demings and Disney believe it will be nearly impossible to achieve an 85% vaccination rate in the United States. :(

All signs point to WDW returning to near-normal before the federal government recommends it. :(


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New Yahoo News/YouGov COVID poll: The U.S. is about to run out of adults who are eager to get vaccinated

Andrew Romano
·West Coast Correspondent
Sat, May 1, 2021, 10:49 AM

The U.S. is about to run out of adults who are ready and willing to get vaccinated against COVID-19, according to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll.

The survey of 1,558 Americans 18 or older, which was conducted from April 27 to April 29, found that while the number who say they have already been vaccinated (57 percent) has continued to climb in recent weeks, just 6 percent now say they have not yet been vaccinated but plan to get a shot “as soon as it is available to me.”

That’s down from 35 percent in February and 17 percent earlier in April.

ae678180-a9f6-11eb-83f5-1d387ef7c205


At the same time, the share of adults who say they are unsure (7 percent), are waiting to see “what happens to others before deciding” (10 percent) or will “never” get vaccinated (20 percent) has not budged.

The implication is stark: Unless many of the unvaccinated Americans who have been saying for months that they’re waiting or unsure have a sudden change of heart, fewer than 65 percent of U.S. adults are likely to be inoculated against COVID-19 this spring — far short of the level experts say is required for the kind of lasting population-wide protection known as herd immunity.

Reaching that threshold — the point when an estimated 80 percent of all Americans regardless of age have been vaccinated and the coronavirus runs out of potential hosts — would then require an additional 96 million U.S. residents to be vaccinated, a process that could presumably begin when regulators approve the COVID vaccines for use in children.

The only problem? There are just 73 million minors in the entire country, and nowhere near all of them will be vaccinated.

Herd immunity through vaccination, in other words, seems almost certain to elude the U.S. — an outcome that has become increasingly plausible in recent weeks as vaccine supply outstrips demand and the average number of daily doses administered starts to slip.

This doesn’t mean the pandemic will never subside in the U.S. The immunity induced by prior infection is also powerful (if less so) and tens of millions of Americans have already been infected, further limiting the virus’s opportunities for transmission. In the poll, 44 percent of respondents say America has gotten past the worst of the pandemic, and they’re probably correct. Just half that number (22 percent) say the worst is yet to come.

But the U.S. may head into the colder fall and winter months with more lingering vulnerability to outbreaks than a country like Israel, where a full 80 percent of adults have already been vaccinated. (In line with the Yahoo News/YouGov poll, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that 55.4 percent of U.S. adults have been vaccinated.)

“The summer is here and people are outside and nobody seems like they’re dying every day,” explains Yahoo News Medical Contributor Dr. Kavita Patel, a Brookings Institution health scholar and former Obama administration official. “People think, ‘Right. I’m done. I don’t need to get vaccinated.’ So we’re probably going to hit 60 to 65 percent [vaccinated] and have to get used to a couple hundred COVID deaths a day. That’s the price we’re going to have to pay.”

The Yahoo News/YouGov poll hints at which communities could have lower levels of vaccination and thus higher risk. While 73 percent of Democrats say they’ve already been vaccinated and another 7 percent say they plan to get a shot as soon as possible, just 56 percent and 4 percent of Republicans, respectively, say the same — a potential 20-point immunity gap. The gap between Joe Biden voters (83 percent plus 6 percent) and Donald Trump voters (57 percent plus 3 percent) is even larger.

The lower you are on the income ladder, the less likely you are to be vaccinated, with the number of vaccinated (74 percent) or eager (5 percent) Americans making $100,000 or more per year far exceeding the same numbers (49 percent and 7 percent) among those making less than $50,000. And while efforts to overcome access issues and historical distrust in Black communities have helped, Black Americans continue to rank among the least likely to say they have already been vaccinated (50 percent) and the likeliest to say they will “never” get jabbed (24 percent).


The CDC’s decision last month to pause the Johnson & Johnson vaccine while officials investigated a handful of “extremely rare” blood clotting incidents — and then to resume its use after the risk was confirmed to be vanishingly small and limited to women ages 18 to 48 — has not improved the situation. Although most Americans (67 percent) say pausing was the right decision, just 47 percent say unpausing was wise, and the public is now divided over whether the J&J vaccine itself is safe (44 percent) or unsafe (36 percent) as a result. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines do not have the same perception problem: 65 percent of Americans consider them safe, with a full 44 percent and 40 percent, respectively, saying they’re “very safe.” Just 18 percent say the same about J&J.

This suspicion is especially detrimental because the single-dose, refrigeratable Johnson & Johnson vaccine is well suited for reaching underserved communities. Just 27 percent of Americans who remain hesitant (either waiting to see or unsure) now say the J&J vaccine is safe, while a full 43 percent of these hesitant Americans say it’s unsafe. Again, hesitant Americans do not harbor the same fears about Pfizer (51 percent safe vs. 14 percent unsafe) or Moderna (49 percent safe vs. 13 percent unsafe).

On the bright side, broader fears about COVID-19 continue to wane. While a majority of Americans (57 percent) continue to be very or somewhat worried about the virus, that number is the lowest in any Yahoo News/YouGov poll since early March 2020 — the start of the pandemic in the U.S.

Likewise, the share of Americans who say they wore a mask always or most of the time this past week (72 percent) is at its lowest level since July 2020, and less than half (48 percent) now say they always wear a mask outside their home, down from 55 percent in early April.

But even those figures carry with them a note of caution. While 54 percent of Americans who’ve had at least one vaccine shot continue to “always” mask up in public, just 41 percent of unvaccinated Americans say they do the same.
 

DisneyFan32

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
The below Yahoo article echoes what CDC data is telling us - there's a downward trend in vaccines administered.

View attachment 553952

Orange County Major Jerry Demings announced that all mask mandates would be lifted when 70% of local residents age 16+ receive their first dose, and/or the county's 14-day rolling positivity rate drops to 5% or below. He also stated that this had been discussed with park operators.

My interpretation is that Demings and Disney believe it will be nearly impossible to achieve an 85% vaccination rate in the United States. :(

All signs point to WDW returning to near-normal before the federal government recommends it. :(


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New Yahoo News/YouGov COVID poll: The U.S. is about to run out of adults who are eager to get vaccinated

Andrew Romano
·West Coast Correspondent
Sat, May 1, 2021, 10:49 AM

The U.S. is about to run out of adults who are ready and willing to get vaccinated against COVID-19, according to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll.

The survey of 1,558 Americans 18 or older, which was conducted from April 27 to April 29, found that while the number who say they have already been vaccinated (57 percent) has continued to climb in recent weeks, just 6 percent now say they have not yet been vaccinated but plan to get a shot “as soon as it is available to me.”

That’s down from 35 percent in February and 17 percent earlier in April.

ae678180-a9f6-11eb-83f5-1d387ef7c205


At the same time, the share of adults who say they are unsure (7 percent), are waiting to see “what happens to others before deciding” (10 percent) or will “never” get vaccinated (20 percent) has not budged.

The implication is stark: Unless many of the unvaccinated Americans who have been saying for months that they’re waiting or unsure have a sudden change of heart, fewer than 65 percent of U.S. adults are likely to be inoculated against COVID-19 this spring — far short of the level experts say is required for the kind of lasting population-wide protection known as herd immunity.

Reaching that threshold — the point when an estimated 80 percent of all Americans regardless of age have been vaccinated and the coronavirus runs out of potential hosts — would then require an additional 96 million U.S. residents to be vaccinated, a process that could presumably begin when regulators approve the COVID vaccines for use in children.

The only problem? There are just 73 million minors in the entire country, and nowhere near all of them will be vaccinated.

Herd immunity through vaccination, in other words, seems almost certain to elude the U.S. — an outcome that has become increasingly plausible in recent weeks as vaccine supply outstrips demand and the average number of daily doses administered starts to slip.

This doesn’t mean the pandemic will never subside in the U.S. The immunity induced by prior infection is also powerful (if less so) and tens of millions of Americans have already been infected, further limiting the virus’s opportunities for transmission. In the poll, 44 percent of respondents say America has gotten past the worst of the pandemic, and they’re probably correct. Just half that number (22 percent) say the worst is yet to come.

But the U.S. may head into the colder fall and winter months with more lingering vulnerability to outbreaks than a country like Israel, where a full 80 percent of adults have already been vaccinated. (In line with the Yahoo News/YouGov poll, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that 55.4 percent of U.S. adults have been vaccinated.)

“The summer is here and people are outside and nobody seems like they’re dying every day,” explains Yahoo News Medical Contributor Dr. Kavita Patel, a Brookings Institution health scholar and former Obama administration official. “People think, ‘Right. I’m done. I don’t need to get vaccinated.’ So we’re probably going to hit 60 to 65 percent [vaccinated] and have to get used to a couple hundred COVID deaths a day. That’s the price we’re going to have to pay.”

The Yahoo News/YouGov poll hints at which communities could have lower levels of vaccination and thus higher risk. While 73 percent of Democrats say they’ve already been vaccinated and another 7 percent say they plan to get a shot as soon as possible, just 56 percent and 4 percent of Republicans, respectively, say the same — a potential 20-point immunity gap. The gap between Joe Biden voters (83 percent plus 6 percent) and Donald Trump voters (57 percent plus 3 percent) is even larger.

The lower you are on the income ladder, the less likely you are to be vaccinated, with the number of vaccinated (74 percent) or eager (5 percent) Americans making $100,000 or more per year far exceeding the same numbers (49 percent and 7 percent) among those making less than $50,000. And while efforts to overcome access issues and historical distrust in Black communities have helped, Black Americans continue to rank among the least likely to say they have already been vaccinated (50 percent) and the likeliest to say they will “never” get jabbed (24 percent).


The CDC’s decision last month to pause the Johnson & Johnson vaccine while officials investigated a handful of “extremely rare” blood clotting incidents — and then to resume its use after the risk was confirmed to be vanishingly small and limited to women ages 18 to 48 — has not improved the situation. Although most Americans (67 percent) say pausing was the right decision, just 47 percent say unpausing was wise, and the public is now divided over whether the J&J vaccine itself is safe (44 percent) or unsafe (36 percent) as a result. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines do not have the same perception problem: 65 percent of Americans consider them safe, with a full 44 percent and 40 percent, respectively, saying they’re “very safe.” Just 18 percent say the same about J&J.

This suspicion is especially detrimental because the single-dose, refrigeratable Johnson & Johnson vaccine is well suited for reaching underserved communities. Just 27 percent of Americans who remain hesitant (either waiting to see or unsure) now say the J&J vaccine is safe, while a full 43 percent of these hesitant Americans say it’s unsafe. Again, hesitant Americans do not harbor the same fears about Pfizer (51 percent safe vs. 14 percent unsafe) or Moderna (49 percent safe vs. 13 percent unsafe).

On the bright side, broader fears about COVID-19 continue to wane. While a majority of Americans (57 percent) continue to be very or somewhat worried about the virus, that number is the lowest in any Yahoo News/YouGov poll since early March 2020 — the start of the pandemic in the U.S.

Likewise, the share of Americans who say they wore a mask always or most of the time this past week (72 percent) is at its lowest level since July 2020, and less than half (48 percent) now say they always wear a mask outside their home, down from 55 percent in early April.

But even those figures carry with them a note of caution. While 54 percent of Americans who’ve had at least one vaccine shot continue to “always” mask up in public, just 41 percent of unvaccinated Americans say they do the same.
I'm scared as outbreaks will go wild in colder fall and winter months. We will never get back to normal as we might continue to wear masks and social distancing by fall and winter months if they will be forever for good....Nooooooo...Stupid anti-vaxxs, new variants, as there will be new outbreaks by fall and winter. Is that chance we will never get back to normal before getting worse by fall and winter?
 

drizgirl

Well-Known Member
I'm scared as outbreaks will go wild in colder fall and winter months. We will never get back to normal as we might continue to wear masks and social distancing by fall and winter months if they will be forever for good....Nooooooo...Stupid anti-vaxxs, new variants, as there will be new outbreaks by fall and winter. Is that chance we will never get back to normal before getting worse by fall and winter?
I actually think an awful lot of vaccinated people will start ignoring the rules by fall. Disney can maintain the policy, but in general, I think it's going to be very hard to keep a hard line on it.
 
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