Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

This is the kind of nonsense we are fighting against with the vaccines:

Miami private school Centner Academy won’t employ vaccinated teachers, staff

A private school with two campuses in Miami has warned its staff against taking vaccines that prevent COVID-19, saying it will not employ anyone who has been inoculated and spreading misinformation about the potential risks of vaccination.

www.yahoo.com

 

[danlb_2000]

Ok let me clear this up:

if fully vaccinated let us make our own decisions as to whether or not we want to wear a mask and social distance as the risk is extremely low and will always be there

if not vaccinated let them make their own decisions as to whether or not they want to wear a mask and social distance

all assume the risks and make our own decisions as to what to or not to do and where to go

I know that won’t happen and we are going to go into 2022 with restrictions because of media constantly pushing doom and gloom but here we are. I just wonder how long vaccinated people are going to accept having to be restricted basically the same as before getting the shot

Wow, I wasn't expecting this one...

“reports have surfaced recently of non-vaccinated people being negatively impacted by interacting with people who have been vaccinated.”

 

[GhostHost1000]

Yes, I know that's your position. Nothing to clear up. And thus, no incentive whatsoever to get vaccinated.

Basically... your logic is simply, "no restrictions, ever" --

It's the next step in the logic of:
March 2020 -- "Covid is a hoax, therefore we don't need any restrictions!"
April 2020 -- "Covid is just the flu, we don't need restrictions for the flu, so no restrictions!"
May-June 2020 -- "The disease can't be worse than the cure... people are going to commit suicide and get addicted to drugs due to the restrictions, so lift all the restrictions!"
July-August 2020 -- "Herd immunity should be the cure, so lift all the restrictions so we can get to herd immunity!"
September-2020 -- "Cases are low, nobody will talk about Covid after the election, so lift all the restrictions!"
October-November 2020 -- "We can't live this way forever, so lift all the restrictions!"
December-January 2021 -- "Vaccines have been approved, we will never reach herd immunity anyway, so lift all the restrictions!"
Feb-March -- "It's been a year, it's time to lift all the restrictions!"
April-- "People aren't getting vaccinated because of the restrictions, If you want people to get vaccinated, lift all the restrictions!"

So yes, we have heard this argument before. "Lifting restrictions" is always the solution, restrictions are never necessary.

Sorry, this argument has lost all credibility.



I got vaccinated and I'm no longer restricted "basically the same." I saw my parents indoors and close up for the first time in 12 months. My kids got to hug their grandparents for the first time in a year. I'm planning to travel outside of the state for the first time in a year. I've gotten together with friends that I haven't seen in a year. I've eaten indoors in a restaurant for the first time in a year.

So I certainly feel I've been substantially freed by getting the vaccine.

That’s great but I’ve been doing all of that from the beginning wearing masks and social distancing as have many in other states without issue. Now that many are vaccinated we still have to do all of that? Many people aren’t going to be ok with that for the rest of the year

 

[MisterPenguin]

Cicadas supposed to be here in a few weeks, masks sound like a good idea lol.

Hey! I'm vaccinated. I'm allowed to eat outdoors!!

 

[GoofGoof]

Wow, I wasn't expecting this one...

“reports have surfaced recently of non-vaccinated people being negatively impacted by interacting with people who have been vaccinated.”

If you believe those nut jobs from that private school the vaccinated people are transmitting something from their bodies. Not sure whether a mask helps block that or not . Maybe just a tinfoil hat.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Fully vaccinated means being less of a risk to people, because transmission is significantly lower and potentially non-existent except in rare cases. In addition, fully vaccinated people are highly unlikely to get COVID-19 (some 5,000 people have gotten COVID out of 97 million people who have been vaccinated). Fully vaccinated is lessening the burden on our healthcare system and are able to lead productive lives without the risk of others becoming ill.

Unvaccinated means being a risk to people such as kids, those who are unable to get vaccinations for medical reasons, and one another. These people continue to transmit the virus, are more susceptible to variants, and are putting themselves and others at risk. Unvaccinated means being a burden on the healthcare system and others.

Choosing to be unvaccinated doesn't give you the right to recklessly ruin other people's lives.

I agree and understand all of that but things like choosing to serve alcohol to people who are going to get in their vehicle and drive drunk can recklessly ruin other people’s lives too but we do it because it’s how we live and enjoy life. I know it’s not apples and oranges but the point is there is always going to be a risk for this and that so at what point are we going to accept that later this year or do we just mask up forever because there are too many who never get vaccinated. That is the issue. 100% won’t get vaccinated, the virus will never go away, and there will always be a risk

 

[GoofGoof]

That’s great but I’ve been doing all of that from the beginning wearing masks and social distancing as have many in other states without issue. Now that many are vaccinated we still have to do all of that? Many people aren’t going to be ok with that for the rest of the year

I won’t be real happy doing that stuff the rest of the year. That’s why we need to get enough people vaccinated. It’s not going to just go away without a real drop in community spread.

 

[mickeymiss]

This new guidance is literally nothing. It’s like they are living under a rock. People have been gathering since before the vaccine was available. Small gatherings with family were actually allowed as far as I knew. There’s never been any enforcement of gatherings and outdoor masks. As far as outdoor dining, this is a green light for everyone to stop wearing masks at outdoor restaurants (which I think is reasonable even for unvaccinated people).
I don’t think they are going to be able to get around the fact that people will do what they want to do. This is why it’s easier to just wear masks in higher risk settings for now rather than try to keep track of who is vaccinated.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I won’t be real happy doing that stuff the rest of the year. That’s why we need to get enough people vaccinated. It’s not going to just go away without a real drop in community spread.

I agree. My biggest concern and frustration that I so poorly communicate here is that while cases may/should drop, not everyone will get vaccinated, covid will never go away, and there will always be some type of risk...so then what. When is something going to give or that line be drawn and what comes first, the CDC restrictions being loosened or people just getting tired of it all? It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out but unfortunately we are all part of this and some days it feels more political than actual seeing how different states are handling things

 

[FantasiaMickey2000]

It's the same with masks.

I don't know why this is so difficult for some people to grasp.

The pushback is science says vaccinated people don’t pose a risk of spreading the vaccine. Therefore, asking vaccinated people to mask up is not following the science. And it actively discourages people from getting the vaccine because some people won’t get it until it results in a change in quality of life. I say this as someone already vaccinated.

 

[Chomama]

The pushback is science says vaccinated people don’t pose a risk of spreading the vaccine. Therefore, asking vaccinated people to mask up is not following the science. And it actively discourages people from getting the vaccine because some people won’t get it until it results in a change in quality of life. I say this as someone already vaccinated.

I really believe they are only encouraging everyone to mask up now so there isn’t confusion over who is doing what in public. Everyone wears a mask is way easier than 70/30. Not saying I agree. I think the same will hold at wdw. Once vaccines are high enough and infections are low enough they will drop masks for everyone. They won’t do this in a piecemeal way. It’s too complicated. It just won’t happen.

 

[havoc315]

What do you consider a conflict?

Conflict does not mean bar brawl. Conflict is any time a CM has to ask a cast member to change their behavior. Hopefully the conflict does not escalate beyond, "please put on your mask, thank you."

Today CMs who are frequently reminding people to mask up at the parks. It’s not viral video worthy. Do you think people who resist masks aren’t going to the parks today?

Sure they are. But they are under immense peer pressure to keep their mask on, because everyone else has their mask on.

Imagine the bus on the safari at Animal Kingdom, for example. 20 people on the bus, all wearing masks. There is 1 anti-masker... keeping his mask on. Because even if the driver doesn't start yelling at him to put his mask back on, he will get dirty looks from the other 19 people on bus. Now, imagine 19 people who are vaccinated, not wearing their masks. 1 anti-masker, anti-vaxxer. Is he really going to keep his mask on? He can take it off without dirty looks -- stick his hand in his pocket and nobody would even see which band he has on. The driver isn't going to stop the bus every few minutes to double check bands.

That's the thing -- The easier it is to get away with breaking a rule, the more people will break it. If the rule is universal and is being enforced by peer pressure (along with CMs), you will get far more compliance than if you remove the peer pressure and rely solely on CMs who then have to do spot checks of wrists.

They go and they try to get away with pulling their masks down or not wear them at all. The same would be true in that plan.

Someone 50 feet away in a crowds pulls down their mask -- Making them the only unmasked person in the crowd -- Easy for a CM to spot, from 50 feet away.

Someone 50 feet away, in a crowd of mostly unmasked people -- removes his mask, wrist band not visible from 50 feet away -- The CM from 50 feet away will have no idea whether that person was allowed to remove their mask or not.

I don’t think there would be an increase in the number of conflicts. It would be harder to enforce because as a CM you would need to take the extra step of checking for a wrist band first.

Not just first. You would need to constantly re-check. Or else, they would wear their mask at the turnstile, and then take it off once in the park. So you'd need to have CMs walking around constantly checking wrist bands.

There’s no higher level of conflict though, they would just politely ask the person to put on their mask and if they didn’t comply they kick them out. Same as today.

Not about whether you would have a higher level of conflict. You'd simply have far far more conflicts. You'd need to have CMs constantly strolling through the parks, constantly checking wrist bands.

The benefit of that plan over straight vaccine passports is you defeat the EO without getting dragged into court and Disney doesn’t have to exclude a large portion of people from coming.

Again, speaking as a lawyer -- it would be a direct violation of the EO. The mask requirement is a different level of service.

 

[correcaminos]

I don't see them formally relaxing their rules, but I'm willing to bet enforcement will be relaxed out of necessity. I'll be there next week (vaccinated and following the rules), but it will be interesting to observe how the CDC's change will affect most people's behavior and Disney's response to it.

I agree. They already are from what I've seen/been told from others who have been there. Why do we think they relaxed the pic mask rule? Nothing changed other than guests.

Not sure we will formally see things, but not all view walking paths at Disney the same as being in a huge crowd like at a sporting event. I know I don't... again something I'll watch and wait. Not to worry, I have plenty of masks for when I do go.

 

[danlb_2000]

The pushback is science says vaccinated people don’t pose a risk of spreading the vaccine. Therefore, asking vaccinated people to mask up is not following the science. And it actively discourages people from getting the vaccine because some people won’t get it until it results in a change in quality of life. I say this as someone already vaccinated.

I assume your first sentence was supposed to end with "virus", but based on the article just posted above I can't be sure.

Either way, the science does NOT say vaccinated don't pose a risk to spreading, it says they pose minimal risk.

 

[JD80]

How about vaccination upon request, no waiting, no appointment at multiple locations. There is supposed to be an abundance of vaccine now in the U.S., so lets stop with the multiple steps of scheduling and appointments to get vaccinated. Make it more convenient not more complex!

I saw a vaxx site at a local Target yesterday for the first time. We'll be getting vaccines in every Walmart in the country soon.

 

[Kevin_W]

Yes, I suppose all those epidemiologists and scientists could have just read articles and had the same depth of knowledge. Makes sense to me.

What do you think going to college is? Attending a lot of lectures and reading a lot of textbooks (and in grad school, often a lot of current literature.) Sure there are tests and writing to prove knowledge and depending on your field labs/clinicals to demonstrate skills. But at the end of the day, people are not born scientists but choose to gain that knowledge (and I say this as a scientist). They can choose to gain knowledge in other fields as well.

 

[FantasiaMickey2000]

I really believe they are only encouraging everyone to mask up now so there isn’t confusion over who is doing what in public. Everyone wears a mask is way easier than 70/30. Not saying I agree. I think the same will hold at wdw. Once vaccines are high enough and infections are low enough they will drop masks for everyone. They won’t do this in a piecemeal way. It’s too complicated. It just won’t happen.

Right, just that’s not the messaging right now and the massive failure on the part of the CDC and Biden administration. The messaging needs to be once you are vaccinated you are safe and don’t spread the virus (which studies show is accurate in almost all cases) and once we get enough people vaccinated then we can remove the restrictions. Instead you have the cdc telling you it’s still not safe and your at risk if you’re vaccinated and Biden masking up on Zoom calls. It’s a colossal messaging failure which is cratering demand for the vaccination IMO.

 

[Bullseye1967]

Meanwhile in Tennessee:

Coronavirus in Tennessee: State reports 958 new cases, nine new deaths

We'll have the latest news on the fight against the coronavirus in Tennessee, including case counts, vaccine phases and appointment updates.

www.tennessean.com

 

[Chomama]

Right, just that’s not the messaging right now and the massive failure on the part of the CDC and Biden administration. The messaging needs to be once you are vaccinated you are safe and don’t spread the virus (which studies show is accurate in almost all cases) and once we get enough people vaccinated then we can remove the restrictions. Instead you have the cdc telling you it’s still not safe and your at risk if you’re vaccinated and Biden masking up on Zoom calls. It’s a colossal messaging failure which is cratering demand for the vaccination IMO.

Completely and totally Agree. It’s very disheartening to say the least

 

[hopemax]

Ok let me clear this up:

if fully vaccinated let us make our own decisions as to whether or not we want to wear a mask and social distance as the risk is extremely low and will always be there

if not vaccinated let them make their own decisions as to whether or not they want to wear a mask and social distance

all assume the risks and make our own decisions as to what to or not to do and where to go

I know that won’t happen and we are going to go into 2022 with restrictions because of media constantly pushing doom and gloom but here we are. I just wonder how long vaccinated people are going to accept having to be restricted basically the same as before getting the shot

And the point you are still missing is that these actions will still have an effect on you. Just like you having a well-maintained house and car is not enough to compensate for the negative effects that your neighbors' dilapidated house and yard full of broken down cars will have on your property values. I get that, today, you aren't selling your house and so it's not high on the list of things to be thinking about. But I am sure that your years of living in a maintained house aren't going to be consolation about the lost money when the day you start thinking about it arrives. Especially, since we aren't talking about selling a house, but potentially how much you will be paying in future years in taxes, insurance premiums, and rising health care costs and availability (there is already a shortage of GPs) due to thousands of people needing treatment and assistance for things they didn't need before COVID. (But they didn't die...) Public health and infectious diseases aren't like people choosing which concert or movie to see.

I know: "There's no way that will happen."