Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[danlb_2000]

Right, just that’s not the messaging right now and the massive failure on the part of the CDC and Biden administration. The messaging needs to be once you are vaccinated you are safe and don’t spread the virus (which studies show is accurate in almost all cases) and once we get enough people vaccinated then we can remove the restrictions. Instead you have the cdc telling you it’s still not safe and your at risk if you’re vaccinated and Biden masking up on Zoom calls. It’s a colossal messaging failure which is cratering demand for the vaccination IMO.

You may disagree with the guidelines, but it would send a bad message for Biden not to follow them, thus the reason for the mask on the call. He was in close contact with people who don't live with him. We also don't know if everyone with him was vaccinated.

 

[Archie123]

What do you think going to college is? Attending a lot of lectures and reading a lot of textbooks (and in grad school, often a lot of current literature.) Sure there are tests and writing to prove knowledge and depending on your field labs/clinicals to demonstrate skills. But at the end of the day, people are not born scientists but choose to gain that knowledge (and I say this as a scientist). They can choose to gain knowledge in other fields as well.

Not what I am talking about. People on here became covid "experts" by reading articles and watching tv. If you think that you can read enough articles on your own to become said expert then more power to you. I mean you are 100% wrong but more power to you regardless.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Kevin_W]

Not what I am talking about. People on here became covid "experts" by reading articles and watching tv. If you think that you can read enough articles on your own to become said expert then more power to you. I mean you are 100% wrong but more power to you regardless.

How many people have you seen here claiming to be an expert? I haven't seen any. I do see people claiming to have a good understanding of the conclusions reached by experts if various studies, and that seems quite reasonable.

 

[corsairk09]

I assume your first sentence was supposed to end with "virus", but based on the article just posted above I can't be sure.

Either way, the science does NOT say vaccinated don't pose a risk to spreading, it says they pose minimal risk.

The article said that the school has: "a chiropractor on staff to give adjustments to students and staff and practices meditation among students with the use of crystals."


They are a different brand of crazy

 

[FantasiaMickey2000]

You may disagree with the guidelines, but it would send a bad message for Biden not to follow them, thus the reason for the mask on the call. He was in close contact with people who don't live with him. We also don't know if everyone with him was vaccinated.

Agree to disagree. I think we can say with 100% certainty at this point that Kamala Harris, John Kerry, and Gina McCarthy are vaccinated and the White House isn’t letting unvaccinated people into close quarters with the president. The visual message of once you are vaccinated you should still mask up if gathered with other vaccinated individuals is damaging IMO. Idk I’m just frustrated at the declining doses being administrated and to me that means it’s clear the current messaging isn’t working and needs to change.

 

[ABQ]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but oh well, I finally watched Rochelle Walensky's presentation from today and though it's nice that some new guidance is presented, I really think she missed an opportunity to pull in some of the vax hesitant crowd but did little to sway them.
I don't have an answer myself, but she touts the efficacy of the vaccine a few times, but then doesn't provide much in terms of benefits of being vaccinated.
I'm not anti vaccine myself, took my Moderna jabs in early Feb and March, but her only examples of things you can do vaccinated without a mask or distancing that you cannot do unvaccinated are likely, in every instance, already being done by the anti vax crowd. Going over a friends house for a meal inside or out? That's being done by them. Exercising outdoors, while impossible to enforce anyway, is already being done. We'll never get to the 70% of the nation or whatever it was they want without better carrots and fewer sticks being offered to that group.

 

[Archie123]

How many people have you seen here claiming to be an expert? I haven't seen any. I do see people claiming to have a good understanding of the conclusions reached by experts if various studies, and that seems quite reasonable.

Claiming to be an expert and acting like an expert are two totally different things. The former is zero and the latter is much larger number.

This was fun but time to move on and catch up on my Scientific Journal. It has some really big sciencey words I want to learn.

 

[DCBaker]

Numbers are out - there were 46 new reported deaths.

 

[Incomudro]

This new guidance is literally nothing. It’s like they are living under a rock. People have been gathering since before the vaccine was available. Small gatherings with family were actually allowed as far as I knew. There’s never been any enforcement of gatherings and outdoor masks. As far as outdoor dining, this is a green light for everyone to stop wearing masks at outdoor restaurants (which I think is reasonable even for unvaccinated people).
I don’t think they are going to be able to get around the fact that people will do what they want to do. This is why it’s easier to just wear masks in higher risk settings for now rather than try to keep track of who is vaccinated.

It should mean that masks are off for beaches, boardwalks (unless they're densely packed) parks etc., shouldn't it?
I know some people never wore masks in some of those situations, but now the stigma and fear of not wearing one should be reduced.

 

[DCBaker]

Current Florida vaccine report -

 

[JAKECOTCenter]

Numbers are out - there were 46 new reported deaths.

View attachment 552444View attachment 552446View attachment 552445View attachment 552447

There is definitely a plateau in Florida. Testing is adequate enough to suggest that cases aren't surging anymore

 

[DavidNoble]

I agree and understand all of that but things like choosing to serve alcohol to people who are going to get in their vehicle and drive drunk can recklessly ruin other people’s lives too but we do it because it’s how we live and enjoy life. I know it’s not apples and oranges but the point is there is always going to be a risk for this and that so at what point are we going to accept that later this year or do we just mask up forever because there are too many who never get vaccinated. That is the issue. 100% won’t get vaccinated, the virus will never go away, and there will always be a risk

Your statement though would then suggest we should never have any kind of regulations. No seatbelts, build planes however you want, everyone gets a gun at birth, etc.

We have rules in place to protect the general public. If someone gets behind the wheel intoxicated, they can be arrested. If they kill someone while driving drunk, they can be held accountable for their actions and go to jail. The same is not the case with COVID-19.

Obviously 100% won't get vaccinated. We need to get to like 75-80% with probably yearly boosters. Children right now are exempt because they're doing studies. Should the 10 year old girl be forced to have to live her life in a house because she had cancer when she was younger and because some people are too proud to get a vaccine? Because they believe in conspiracy theories and think they're going to have 5G implanted (by the way, my speeds have tripled in the past week thanks to my second vaccine shot) if they get the vaccine or be controlled by Bill Gates?

We all have a responsibility to one another, whether we like it or not. We have all, largely, entered a social contract with one another. That social contract says we won't walk up to one another and kill someone, drive drunk behind the wheel, treat each other with some modicum of respect. Largely, if you don't, you're held responsible for it and are punished. Why are we treating this any differently? It's flat out ridiculous and the level at which those will act selfishly is disappointing for a country that is supposed to be the best in the world.

 

[mmascari]

This is kind of frustrating, honestly. So the "reward" for those getting the vaccine, aside from the safety risks, is I can eat outside with multiple people outside while distancing?? Everything else is the exact same as someone who chooses to not be protected.

There's a lot more green boxes in the vaccinated column. The mask may be the same in most, but the risk profile is not the same.

Everyone needs to hop on board or there's no real benefit to society.

Yes.

Worse yet, if not enough do, having a large pool of circulating virus in constant contact with vaccinated people is a recipe for long term disaster.

At this point, I'd rather just have passports and be allowed to do things normally again.

While I dislike that we appear not able to reduce spread enough because of vaccine holdouts that we may require passports, I'm starting to think it may be the only way. I think the implementation is going to be full of peril and conflict, and will still leave us wide open to the problems of uncontrolled spread. But, it may be the only thing to convince enough people to vaccinate if the alternative is being excluded from large parts of society.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It should mean that masks are off for beaches, boardwalks (unless they're densely packed) parks etc., shouldn't it?

Yes, definitely for the vaccinated.

For the unvaccinated... if you're in an undistanced line for an Orangeade, you should be masked.

And if you're in an MTV Spring Break mosh pit, masks for everyone.

If they're following the guidance... and their state's rules.

 

[danlb_2000]

Agree to disagree. I think we can say with 100% certainty at this point that Kamala Harris, John Kerry, and Gina McCarthy are vaccinated and the White House isn’t letting unvaccinated people into close quarters with the president. The visual message of once you are vaccinated you should still mask up if gathered with other vaccinated individuals is damaging IMO. Idk I’m just frustrated at the declining doses being administrated and to me that means it’s clear the current messaging isn’t working and needs to change.

The visual message is the correct one, because it aligns with the current CDC guidelines. As I said, if you want to discuss the validity of the guidelines, that's another matter.

 

[mmascari]

I agree and understand all of that but things like choosing to serve alcohol to people who are going to get in their vehicle and drive drunk can recklessly ruin other people’s lives too but we do it because it’s how we live and enjoy life. I know it’s not apples and oranges but the point is there is always going to be a risk for this and that so at what point are we going to accept that later this year or do we just mask up forever because there are too many who never get vaccinated. That is the issue. 100% won’t get vaccinated, the virus will never go away, and there will always be a risk

When did states introduce liability laws for overserving people? It seems we determined the number of deaths from DUI were to large and changed the rules to impose liability on the server not just the consumer in an effort to reduce the number. Good news, iii.org says we've reduced yearly alcohol-impaired crash fatalities from 18,125 in 1985 to under 11,000 since 2010.

If that's the model we want to use, can we make someone liable for the medical bills or a death benefit if they infect someone else with COVID? That kind of risk should encourage everyone to get vaccinated, since it virtually eliminates any risk. It would spur contact tracing too.

 

[Incomudro]

Yes, definitely for the vaccinated.

For the unvaccinated... if you're in an undistanced line for an Orangeade, you should be masked.

And if you're in an MTV Spring Break mosh pit, masks for everyone.

If they're following the guidance... and their state's rules.

Yes, but in general outdoor areas that aren't packed - nobody needs them and probably never did.
Well, if you're in a high risk category you probably should - and you should probably make that mask an n95 to protect yourself.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Your statement though would then suggest we should never have any kind of regulations. No seatbelts, build planes however you want, everyone gets a gun at birth, etc.

We have rules in place to protect the general public. If someone gets behind the wheel intoxicated, they can be arrested. If they kill someone while driving drunk, they can be held accountable for their actions and go to jail. The same is not the case with COVID-19.

Obviously 100% won't get vaccinated. We need to get to like 75-80% with probably yearly boosters. Children right now are exempt because they're doing studies. Should the 10 year old girl be forced to have to live her life in a house because she had cancer when she was younger and because some people are too proud to get a vaccine? Because they believe in conspiracy theories and think they're going to have 5G implanted (by the way, my speeds have tripled in the past week thanks to my second vaccine shot) if they get the vaccine or be controlled by Bill Gates?

We all have a responsibility to one another, whether we like it or not. We have all, largely, entered a social contract with one another. That social contract says we won't walk up to one another and kill someone, drive drunk behind the wheel, treat each other with some modicum of respect. Largely, if you don't, you're held responsible for it and are punished. Why are we treating this any differently? It's flat out ridiculous and the level at which those will act selfishly is disappointing for a country that is supposed to be the best in the world.

I understand what you’re saying but for someone who is vaccinated they probably have less risk of harming someone than they would by driving to Orlando on I-4

 

[DavidNoble]

I understand what you’re saying but for someone who is vaccinated they probably have less risk of harming someone than they would by driving to Orlando on I-4

I agree. Someone vaccinated should be able to not be required to wear a mask wherever they go. I'm fully vaccinated. I would love to go everywhere without a mask. Soon, I will be able to. We can get there faster if everyone who can goes and gets vaccinated. That doesn't mean everyone has to, but when we get to that 75-80% mark, we will see any restrictions lifted with great jubilation and glee.