Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DavidNoble]

This plus no masks.

Agreed. Those unvaccinated and unwilling put those who are 'at-risk' and unable to get vaccinated at risk. They do more damage to our economy as well in addition to keeping these very restrictions in place because of them. Honestly, while they want to point fingers at everyone else, the reality is they're why we continue to have these issues.

 

[Roy G. Dis]

OK, are we all agreed? Adults 16+ must be vaccinated and <15 can enter without a vac? Did we do it? No masks, just vacs?

Did we do it??

 

[GoofGoof]

100% vaxxed adults + unvaccinated kids should be pretty low risk for everyone. If that's not good enough, require they get tested.

I wouldn’t be opposed to that. Unfortunately it will be tied up in court for months and if the legislature passes a bill to double down on the governor’s executive order it’s going to take time and a lot of money to overturn. By the time Disney got the legal OK to implement we hopefully won’t need it anyway.

 

[disneygeek90]

OK, are we all agreed? Adults 16+ must be vaccinated and <15 can enter without a vac? Did we do it? No masks, just vacs?

Did we do it??

I'm letting Disney know we solved it for them now.

 

[havoc315]

I actually think that could work at WDW. You could submit proof of vaccination ahead of time when you make your park reservation and if you are verified vaccinated then you are flagged with your park ticket. At the gate you show your vaccination status (linked to the ticket or the paper copy) and you get a wrist band like a 21+ person in an 18 to get in 21 to drink club. Anyone remember the wrist bands from the PI days? Then if you have a wrist band no need to wear a mask or distance. If a CM sees you don’t have a wrist band on and you don’t have a mask on they approach you and tell you to mask up. It’s a lot of enforcement but it’s doable. It avoids Disney having to exclude the 2/3 of adults who aren’t vaccinated yet.

1 -- That would probably require a "vaccine passport" or would similarly run afoul of DeSantis rules
2 -- Most critically, even if you could get rid of the DeSantis ban, imaging the massive conflict you're inviting between cast members and guests. Remember, demographically -- anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers overlap extensively. You'd have massive numbers of un-vaccinated people, when seeing lots of other people walking around without masks, taking off their masks too. Inviting lots of conflict for CMs checking those wristbands.

 

[GoofGoof]

OK, are we all agreed? Adults 16+ must be vaccinated and <15 can enter without a vac? Did we do it? No masks, just vacs?

Did we do it??

We did it You are now officially nominated to go tell the governor our plan

 

[MrMcDuck]

Not generally relevant to WDW, but I wonder when DeSantis will change the proof of residency requirement for vaccination. I recall reading a few weeks ago how they were really struggling to get illegal aliens/farmworkers vaccinated due to this (and Florida has lots of such workers) and that calls for change were falling on deaf ears (no surprise with that guy). One would think it wouldn't be a big deal now that vaccines are plentiful, but he probably figures denying illegals access to a lifesaving vaccine is a political winner.

 

[DavidNoble]

We did it You are now officially nominated to go tell the governor our plan

Welp, my work here is done. Ya'll have a good day, ya hear?

 

[GoofGoof]

1 -- That would probably require a "vaccine passport" or would similarly run afoul of DeSantis rules
2 -- Most critically, even if you could get rid of the DeSantis ban, imaging the massive conflict you're inviting between cast members and guests. Remember, demographically -- anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers overlap extensively. You'd have massive numbers of un-vaccinated people, when seeing lots of other people walking around without masks, taking off their masks too. Inviting lots of conflict for CMs checking those wristbands.

It’s not a vaccine passport. You are simply giving fully vaccinated people an exemption from the mask rule which applies to everyone. You are not stopping the unvaccinated from entering.

No more conflict than today. It’s more difficult to enforce because you have to look for the wrist band and not everyone would be in a mask but CMs today are asking guests to mask up. Before the parks opened there was a lot of talk about Disney not wanting to enforce mask rules to avoid conflict and they have proven that unlike things like refillable drinks they are willing to confront guests on safety violations. Disney has proven us wrong on that assumption.

 

[havoc315]

It’s not impossible to have different requirements for vaccinated vs non-vaccinated people, it would just be impossible to monitor it. That is the problem I have. Let people make their own decisions

You just contradicted yourself. If it's "let people make their own decisions" -- then it's not a requirement.

And if it becomes purely totally optional, that totally contradicts your earlier point about an incentive to get the vaccine.
Right now -- Grrrr.... they are saying I can't take off my mask unless I get a vaccine, along with most other people.

Your proposal -- Woohoo! I don't have to wear a mask anymore, whether I get a vaccine or not!!!!

on what to or not to do now that vaccines are widely available to all. Those of us who are fully vaccinated shouldn’t have to wait longer on a return to normal because of those who will never get a shot and the virus always being around somewhere.

That is why I say something has to give at some point. Vaccinated folks are only going to put up with the same restrictions as before their shot for so long

Yet, it's the anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers, those who have been against every restriction all along -- those are the people who seem to be making the most noise about "putting up with the same restrictions!"

In fact, for responsible citizens, the restrictions are now totally different -- If you're vaccinated, you can have small gatherings indoors without masks, with other vaccinated households. If you're vaccinated, you can now have smallish gatherings outdoors without masks.
So reality is, for those that actually have been following the rules and recommendations -- It no longer is the same restrictions. For those that have followed the recommendations and now have gotten vaccinated, the restrictions are dramatically different!
The rules only seem the "same" for those that have been minimally compliant and have refused to follow the rules the most.

 

[DavidNoble]

The "illegal aliens/farmworkers" that work in our farms can provide proof of residency since they all live here and pay bills. They don't live in a box behind a dumpster. They work to make money and support there families.

Not certain what your comment has to do with my comment?

 

[deeevo]

Not generally relevant to WDW, but I wonder when DeSantis will change the proof of residency requirement for vaccination. I recall reading a few weeks ago how they were really struggling to get illegal aliens/farmworkers vaccinated due to this (and Florida has lots of such workers) and that calls for change were falling on deaf ears (no surprise with that guy). One would think it wouldn't be a big deal now that vaccines are plentiful, but he probably figures denying illegals access to a lifesaving vaccine is a political winner.

The "illegal aliens/farmworkers" that work in our farms can provide proof of residency since they all live here and pay bills. They don't live in a box behind a dumpster. They work to make money and support their families.

 

[deeevo]

Not certain what your comment has to do with my comment?

It didn't.. I moved it.

 

[MisterPenguin]

This is kind of frustrating, honestly. So the "reward" for those getting the vaccine, aside from the safety risks, is I can eat outside with multiple people outside while distancing?? Everything else is the exact same as someone who chooses to not be protected.

According to this new CDC recommendation....

The only time you have to put on a mask outdoors is in a dense crowd that you'll be spending time with. If WDW were to adopt this policy, you could walk about the parks and eat oudoors without a mask, but, you'd have to mask up for large crowds such as pre-pandemic Fantasmic! or the Hub during fireworks.

Unvaccinated people outdoors still have to mask up when there will be smaller crowds made up of people outside their COVID bubble, including eating outdoors. So, basically, anytime in the parks.



For indoors, everyone still has to mask up unless they're with a small group of people who are in their "COVID bubble" or with unvaccinated people from only one bubble.

 

[havoc315]

It’s not a vaccine passport. You are simply giving fully vaccinated people an exemption from the mask rule which applies to everyone. You are not stopping the unvaccinated from entering.

Again, whether you literally call it a "passport" -- It's the same effect. DeSantis EO forbids "any documentation for purpose of certifying" vaccination status. Further, businesses may not check vaccination status in order to obtain "access to, entry upon or service from the business" -- While in your exam, access and entry are not effected. You are giving a different level of service and access to vaccinated vs un-vaccinated, which really is contrary to the order.

No more conflict than today. It’s more difficult to enforce because you have to look for the wrist band and not everyone would be in a mask but CMs today are asking guests to mask up.

Much more conflict and difficulty to enforce because of the sheer number. Right now, 99.99% of WDW guests are masked except when taking a socially distanced photo. An anti-masker knows he will stand out like a sore thumb if he suddenly starts walking around without a mask.
Now, if 60% of the adult guests are suddenly permitted to go without masks..... those anti-maskers are going to be emboldened to rip off their masks as well.

Before the parks opened there was a lot of talk about Disney not wanting to enforce mask rules to avoid conflict and they have proven that unlike things like refillable drinks they are willing to confront guests on safety violations. Disney has proven us wrong on that assumption.

You are missing that inherently, it's much easier to enforce a rule that is applicable to 100% of guests then a rule that is applicable to 30-40% of guests.

 

[DavidNoble]

It didn't.. I moved it.

Well, I just got to your post too fast I guess

 

[MrMcDuck]

The "illegal aliens/farmworkers" that work in our farms can provide proof of residency since they all live here and pay bills. They don't live in a box behind a dumpster. They work to make money and support there families.

No one said they live in a dumpster. But providing two documents that satisfy the requirements is not as easy as you think for many of these people. There are charities trying to work with these people and find ways around it, but it would be much easier if the stupid requirement didn't even exist. It's not needed at this point, but Desantis is going to Desantis and most Floridians are just fine with that 'cause they've never been in the shoes of an illegal alien. (Edit: And, I'd point out, forget the benefits to ALL of having as many vaccinated as possible.)

 

[GhostHost1000]

You just contradicted yourself. If it's "let people make their own decisions" -- then it's not a requirement.

And if it becomes purely totally optional, that totally contradicts your earlier point about an incentive to get the vaccine.
Right now -- Grrrr.... they are saying I can't take off my mask unless I get a vaccine, along with most other people.

Your proposal -- Woohoo! I don't have to wear a mask anymore, whether I get a vaccine or not!!!!




Yet, it's the anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers, those who have been against every restriction all along -- those are the people who seem to be making the most noise about "putting up with the same restrictions!"

In fact, for responsible citizens, the restrictions are now totally different -- If you're vaccinated, you can have small gatherings indoors without masks, with other vaccinated households. If you're vaccinated, you can now have smallish gatherings outdoors without masks.
So reality is, for those that actually have been following the rules and recommendations -- It no longer is the same restrictions. For those that have followed the recommendations and now have gotten vaccinated, the restrictions are dramatically different!
The rules only seem the "same" for those that have been minimally compliant and have refused to follow the rules the most.

Ok let me clear this up:

if fully vaccinated let us make our own decisions as to whether or not we want to wear a mask and social distance as the risk is extremely low and will always be there

if not vaccinated let them make their own decisions as to whether or not they want to wear a mask and social distance

all assume the risks and make our own decisions as to what to or not to do and where to go

I know that won’t happen and we are going to go into 2022 with restrictions because of media constantly pushing doom and gloom but here we are. I just wonder how long vaccinated people are going to accept having to be restricted basically the same as before getting the shot

 

[havoc315]

According to this new CDC recommendation....

The only time you have to put on a mask outdoors is in a dense crowd that you'll be spending time with. If WDW were to adopt this policy, you could walk about the parks and eat oudoors without a mask, but, you'd have to mask up for large crowds such as pre-pandemic Fantasmic! or the Hub during fireworks.

When was the last time you walked around most WDW pathways mid-day?!? Many of the paths at WDW are always densely crowded.

Unvaccinated people outdoors still have to mask up when there will be smaller crowds made up of people outside their COVID bubble, including eating outdoors. So, basically, anytime in the parks.



For indoors, everyone still has to mask up unless they're with a small group of people who are in their "COVID bubble" or with unvaccinated people from only one bubble.

 

[GoofGoof]

Again, whether you literally call it a "passport" -- It's the same effect. DeSantis EO forbids "any documentation for purpose of certifying" vaccination status. Further, businesses may not check vaccination status in order to obtain "access to, entry upon or service from the business" -- While in your exam, access and entry are not effected. You are giving a different level of service and access to vaccinated vs un-vaccinated, which really is contrary to the order.



Much more conflict and difficulty to enforce because of the sheer number. Right now, 99.99% of WDW guests are masked except when taking a socially distanced photo. An anti-masker knows he will stand out like a sore thumb if he suddenly starts walking around without a mask.
Now, if 60% of the adult guests are suddenly permitted to go without masks..... those anti-maskers are going to be emboldened to rip off their masks as well.




You are missing that inherently, it's much easier to enforce a rule that is applicable to 100% of guests then a rule that is applicable to 30-40% of guests.

The EO prevents businesses from denying access to someone based on vaccination status. An unvaccinated person would have all of the same access they would just have to wear a mask. There’s no difference in level of service. They have access to the same rides, shows, restaurants and entertainment. It would be somewhat more difficult to enforce due to the wristbands. Outside of that the conflict is the same. Someone without a mask has to be told to wear one. If 60% of the people are vaccinated that’s 60% less people to have potential conflict with.