Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[FantasiaMickey2000]

The visual message is the correct one, because it aligns with the current CDC guidelines. As I said, if you want to discuss the validity of the guidelines, that's another matter.

People who got their second vaccine at least two weeks ago may now gather in small groups at home without wearing masks, according to guidance the CDC issued on Monday, March 8. Biden was in a small group at his home (technically speaking the White House is his home) of fully vaccinated people. The guidance has been he should have been unmasked for over a month. He was not in accordance with CDC guidelines.

 

[hopemax]

This is the kind of nonsense we are fighting against with the vaccines:

Miami private school Centner Academy won’t employ vaccinated teachers, staff

A private school with two campuses in Miami has warned its staff against taking vaccines that prevent COVID-19, saying it will not employ anyone who has been inoculated and spreading misinformation about the potential risks of vaccination.

www.yahoo.com

And while it's easy to dismiss that as just a small number of idiots, this is where the real damage comes. Nothing the CDC could ever say would have as much impact.

Spotify’s Joe Rogan encourages "healthy" 21-year-olds not to get a coronavirus vaccine

www.mediamatters.org

 

[GhostHost1000]

I agree. Someone vaccinated should be able to not be required to wear a mask wherever they go. I'm fully vaccinated. I would love to go everywhere without a mask. Soon, I will be able to. We can get there faster if everyone who can goes and gets vaccinated. That doesn't mean everyone has to, but when we get to that 75-80% mark, we will see any restrictions lifted with great jubilation and glee.

I hope so but I’ll believe it when I see it

just like Fauci making it over home plate with baseball lol

 

[mmascari]

I agree. My biggest concern and frustration that I so poorly communicate here is that while cases may/should drop, not everyone will get vaccinated, covid will never go away, and there will always be some type of risk...so then what. When is something going to give or that line be drawn and what comes first, the CDC restrictions being loosened or people just getting tired of it all? It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out but unfortunately we are all part of this and some days it feels more political than actual seeing how different states are handling things

Literally nobody on this thread is saying COVID needs to completely go away. Even @havoc315 who is hoping for the lowest possible spread of anyone else here isn't asking for completely gone. The only people saying this are those who are creating an impossible goal as justification that it's unattainable.

Many people posting have drawn a line, several slightly different. It's your choice to ignore those and instead argue against a fake goal.

Which really just makes us all think your line is at or even larger than 650 daily / 230,000 yearly dead. That's fine, if that's your number. But, please, just own it then. That's your line, we're there, good to go, open it all up, it'll rise a little then, say 250,000 dead every year when we have a perfectly valid vaccine that can prevent it. Drop the "When is something going to give" and just own it, you're fine with 250,000 dead every year if that's the cost of getting back to normal.

 

[DavidNoble]

I hope so but I’ll believe it when I see it

just like Fauci making it over home plate with baseball lol

Is there some reason you believe that won't happen? Do you think we have to hit 110% attainment? I'm confused by the lack of confidence. Unless you think people will continue to be selfish and we stall at 65%?

 

[mmascari]

You may disagree with the guidelines, but it would send a bad message for Biden not to follow them, thus the reason for the mask on the call. He was in close contact with people who don't live with him. We also don't know if everyone with him was vaccinated.

He's on a zoom call just like my middle schooler right? Alone in a room, in front of a Chromebook, with nobody else around at all?

He wouldn't have a staff just off camera managing lights, cameras, the computer, notes, press, outside visitors?

People who got their second vaccine at least two weeks ago may now gather in small groups at home without wearing masks, according to guidance the CDC issued on Monday, March 8. Biden was in a small group at his home (technically speaking the White House is his home) of fully vaccinated people. The guidance has been he should have been unmasked for over a month. He was not in accordance with CDC guidelines.

How small was the group? His home is also an office building, with visitors in and out, members of the press, contractors, all the people that normally interact with offices. Is there a vaccine passport program at the Whitehouse? Did the upgrade the security checks to include vaccination checks? Have the polled everyone and validated?

I would actually be more upset if the Whitehouse was running a vaccine passport program instead of following mitigation guidelines. They've said they're not going to create a federal passport program. If they did exactly that for themselves while saying it's not needed for the rest of us, that would be upsetting. We accept that they run a more frequent testing program than most people do, but if they ran a passport restricted access while at the same time saying they don't want to support that type of action, that wouldn't go over well.

 

[ABQ]

You may disagree with the guidelines, but it would send a bad message for Biden not to follow them, thus the reason for the mask on the call. He was in close contact with people who don't live with him. We also don't know if everyone with him was vaccinated.

I'll probably get in trouble for speaking of this, but at today's outdoor presser he came to the podium, mask on, after the new CDC guidance for fully vaccinated and outdoor events. No one was within 30 feet of him either. Granted, he left without the mask on, but missed an opportunity to show a benefit of being vaccinated off the jump.

 

[Patcheslee]

The article said that the school has: "a chiropractor on staff to give adjustments to students and staff and practices meditation among students with the use of crystals."


They are a different brand of crazy

Nothing wrong with meditation if it's what helps a kid focus or something else positive. Looking at their academics reviews though, they don't seem too big on college readiness.
The owner held a political event there last October for a mayor candidate. Some parents weren't happy about it.

 

[hopemax]

Literally nobody on this thread is saying COVID needs to completely go away. Even @havoc315 who is hoping for the lowest possible spread of anyone else here isn't asking for completely gone. The only people saying this are those who are creating an impossible goal as justification that it's unattainable.

Many people posting have drawn a line, several slightly different. It's your choice to ignore those and instead argue against a fake goal.

Which really just makes us all think your line is at or even larger than 650 daily / 230,000 yearly dead. That's fine, if that's your number. But, please, just own it then. That's your line, we're there, good to go, open it all up, it'll rise a little then, say 250,000 dead every year when we have a perfectly valid vaccine that can prevent it. Drop the "When is something going to give" and just own it, you're fine with 250,000 dead every year if that's the cost of getting back to normal.

I keep rolling my eyes at everyone acting like we all want zero-COVID, because we aren't wanting to drop restrictions, tomorrow. As a starting point, I would to see the US to get back to where we were before the winter surge. So like 45K/day and we only recently broke through that 70K/day plateau. Ideally, last spring's 22K/day would be better, but people. Or looking at the difference between the "daily new cases" graph and the "active cases" graph on Worldometers, let's get the active cases back to where we were before October (since active represent demands on health care systems, even if it's just doctor's offices and things like your co-worker being out, so you get to cover their tasks). Such unreasonableness!

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[Heppenheimer]

How about vaccination upon request, no waiting, no appointment at multiple locations. There is supposed to be an abundance of vaccine now in the U.S., so lets stop with the multiple steps of scheduling and appointments to get vaccinated. Make it more convenient not more complex!

This is only possible with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Because of the deep-freeze and handling requirements, they need to allot the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to match the demand that day as closely as possible. Otherwise, we would waste a huge amount of doses... wouldn't be good optics on the world stage when so many other countries are struggling to meet their demand.

 

[monothingie]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but oh well, I finally watched Rochelle Walensky's presentation from today and though it's nice that some new guidance is presented, I really think she missed an opportunity to pull in some of the vax hesitant crowd but did little to sway them.
I don't have an answer myself, but she touts the efficacy of the vaccine a few times, but then doesn't provide much in terms of benefits of being vaccinated.
I'm not anti vaccine myself, took my Moderna jabs in early Feb and March, but her only examples of things you can do vaccinated without a mask or distancing that you cannot do unvaccinated are likely, in every instance, already being done by the anti vax crowd. Going over a friends house for a meal inside or out? That's being done by them. Exercising outdoors, while impossible to enforce anyway, is already being done. We'll never get to the 70% of the nation or whatever it was they want without better carrots and fewer sticks being offered to that group.

The messaging has been atrocious. Whether it's TV personalities like the esteemed attention hound Dr. Fauci, or political hacks like Walensky and her boss HHS Secretary Baccera, there is nothing but conflicting and politically motivated messaging. They can't even coordinate and come to numerical metric for "normal".

The vaccine is either effective or it's not. If it is effective then there should be quick move to return to normalcy. There is absolutely no reason to penalize the majority of the population at the expense of the few who won't or can't. You will never have complete acceptance getting vaccinated. You will also never completely eliminate the risk. Further, with supply now outpacing demand for vaccinations, it's no longer a valid excuse to keep restrictions to avoid "spread". Anyone who wants one can easily get one. Frankly, it's not my problem that you choose not get immunized.

But again the terrible messaging just wipes out any motivation of those on the fence to get the shot.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

And while it's easy to dismiss that as just a small number of idiots, this is where the real damage comes. Nothing the CDC could ever say would have as much impact.

Spotify’s Joe Rogan encourages "healthy" 21-year-olds not to get a coronavirus vaccine

www.mediamatters.org

He needs to shut the hell up. Seriously.

 

[CosmicRays]

I feel like if the CDC or the Federal Government would come out and tell people "If we can get to 70% or more vaccinated we can relax mask rules for the majority of the nation.", I think more people might jump on board getting vaccinated. And a concrete number or timeframe is the hope that alot of people might need right now.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I feel like if the CDC or the Federal Government would come out and tell people "If we can get to 70% or more vaccinated we can relax mask rules for the majority of the nation.", I think more people might jump on board getting vaccinated. And a concrete number or timeframe is the hope that alot of people might need right now.

They need to be 100% crystal clear. Not 70% or more adults - 70% or more of the total population.

 

[monothingie]

I keep rolling my eyes at everyone acting like we all want zero-COVID, because we aren't wanting to drop restrictions, tomorrow. As a starting point, I would to see the US to get back to where we were before the winter surge. So like 45K/day and we only recently broke through that 70K/day plateau. Ideally, last spring's 22K/day would be better, but people. Or looking at the difference between the "daily new cases" graph and the "active cases" graph on Worldometers, let's get the active cases back to where we were before October (since active represent demands on health care systems, even if it's just doctor's offices and things like your co-worker being out, so you get to cover their tasks). Such unreasonableness!

Cases per day do not give an total perspective on what is going on. It's an arbitrary number in evaluating what's going on. Since the majority of cases are asymptomatic or mild and do not require hospitalizations it does not reflect the real impact. Hospitalizations and deaths are the key metric. Additionally, since the majority of the most vulnerable population who are most susceptible to death or serious affliction (age 65 and up)has been immunized, the overall impact is significantly lower. You can't use statistical criteria for decision making established pre-vaccine to evaluate how to proceed in an post-vaccine environment.

 

[jlhwdw]

People who got their second vaccine at least two weeks ago may now gather in small groups at home without wearing masks, according to guidance the CDC issued on Monday, March 8.

Why can't it be a large group? If I am in a group of 5 or 50 (or 500) if everyone is immunized, why does group size matter?

 

[monothingie]

Why can't it be a large group? If I am in a group of 5 or 50 (or 500) if everyone is immunized, why does group size matter?

Stop asking questions....

 

[mmascari]

Why can't it be a large group? If I am in a group of 5 or 50 (or 500) if everyone is immunized, why does group size matter?

As the group size increases, the chances that "if everyone is immunized" is true starts to fade away. If your trust circle is 50 or 500 people that you're sure are all vaccinated and nobody (or at least not 2 of them) are lying. I would say go for it. Just like we've all been walking the dog for months with no mask. On the other hand, I think we had one poster go to a family gathering where everyone was vaccinated only to find out afterwards someone lied.

They're not going to publish the guideline as "group that you trust not to lie to you about being vaccinated". By using small, it keeps the risk low without knowing. It's a trade off in the guideline.

If a movie theater allowed only vaccinated people and up to 15% unvaccinated kids under 16. If the only proof was the cashier asking people and taking their word. Would you take your kids to that movie with no mitigations to eat popcorn and have a normal movie? Any bets on the chance of someone not vaccinated being in the audience? Any bets on the chance of someone with COVID that just doesn't know it yet?

 

[ABQ]

As the group size increases, the chances that "if everyone is immunized" is true starts to fade away. If your trust circle is 50 or 500 people that you're sure are all vaccinated and nobody (or at least not 2 of them) are lying. I would say go for it. Just like we've all been walking the dog for months with no mask. On the other hand, I think we had one poster go to a family gathering where everyone was vaccinated only to find out afterwards someone lied.

They're not going to publish the guideline as "group that you trust not to lie to you about being vaccinated". By using small, it keeps the risk low without knowing. It's a trade off in the guideline.

If a movie theater allowed only vaccinated people and up to 15% unvaccinated kids under 16. If the only proof was the cashier asking people and taking their word. Would you take your kids to that movie with no mitigations to eat popcorn and have a normal movie? Any bets on the chance of someone not vaccinated being in the audience? Any bets on the chance of someone with COVID that just doesn't know it yet?

Guess it depends on how the movie theatre is seating people. Are they limiting attendance, is any party within 6 feet of another party or is it spaced out like a restaurant would be and people are eating meals? If that's the case in the theatre, then why not?
Again, the message of the efficacy of the vaccine is being undermined when you are told small groups are fine, but larger ones are not because some not truly vaccinated people are there. If the vaccine does its job, even MOST of the time, if not ALL of the time, then it's a risk I'm willing to take. I took the vaccine knowing that slim chance is there and if the healthcare systems are not overwhelmed, then let the dice roll. If hospitals across the nation were as they seem to be in Michigan, then no, the dice should not roll, but that's not the case for the rest of the nation.

 

[monothingie]

As the group size increases, the chances that "if everyone is immunized" is true starts to fade away. If your trust circle is 50 or 500 people that you're sure are all vaccinated and nobody (or at least not 2 of them) are lying. I would say go for it. Just like we've all been walking the dog for months with no mask. On the other hand, I think we had one poster go to a family gathering where everyone was vaccinated only to find out afterwards someone lied.

They're not going to publish the guideline as "group that you trust not to lie to you about being vaccinated". By using small, it keeps the risk low without knowing. It's a trade off in the guideline.

If a movie theater allowed only vaccinated people and up to 15% unvaccinated kids under 16. If the only proof was the cashier asking people and taking their word. Would you take your kids to that movie with no mitigations to eat popcorn and have a normal movie? Any bets on the chance of someone not vaccinated being in the audience? Any bets on the chance of someone with COVID that just doesn't know it yet?

What percentage is acceptable for mitigating risk?

Using your analysis, we would never reach point of normalcy.