Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
I probably won't run these numbers again until sometime next week but here is the breakdown of percentage of each age group that has at least one shot as well as the increase from the prior report.

Age% VaccinatedIncrease 4/15-4/16
16-24
13.7%​
18205​
25-34
19.6%​
20918​
35-44
28.8%​
21527​
45-54
37.3%​
23465​
55-64
54.2%​
25401​
65-74
82.8%​
9028​
75-84
82.6%​
4046​
85+
69.1%​
1394​
Total
36.3%​
123984​

For 65+, 80.9% have had at least one shot so far. The percentage is really a little higher for 16-24 because my population number is 15-24.
 

DCBaker

Premium Member
According to CDC Covid-19 data tracker, the US has now crossed over 200 million doses administered and over 80 million fully vaccinated -

Screen Shot 2021-04-16 at 3.29.46 PM.png


 

zurj

Active Member
Perfect example.... not being able to distinguish the true freedoms enshrined in our Constitutions and values from, "I have to wear a mask for a few weeks!?!?! That's fascism!"
You nailed me there, havoc315. You saw quickly not only my mask comment, but also my fascism comment. This is why I nominate you to be in charge of all Americans decision making... You see all the things no one else can see. Brilliant!
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
According to CDC Covid-19 data tracker, the US has now crossed over 200 million doses administered and over 80 million fully vaccinated -

View attachment 549470

An interesting observation is that based on the hesitancy map somebody posted the other day, New Hampshire had a lot more hesitancy than Vermont but according to this tracker, New Hampshire has vaccinated 12% more of the population with at least one dose than Vermont (NH at 57.5%). Hopefully things like this indicate that the hesitancy polls don't play out in reality.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Exactly. And we're at roughly the point as a percentage of population where their drop began. So, while our current status of mitigations may not allow for such a steep decline, why is there no reason to believe that the US shouldn't begin to see similar drops? In fact, the best mirror to Israel may be CA. They were still under relatively strict "lockdowns" when they started vaccinating en force, and looking at their trendline now it's pretty good.

Correct -- We should see very significant decline.

But here is what is getting lost: The difference between case REDUCTION vs herd immunity (ERADICATION).

There seems to be an attitude that they are the same thing.... that if we can get cases down significantly, where we have ongoing 10,000-20,000 cases per day, "that's good enough." There seems to be a wide belief that eradication just won't be possible, so let's not try.

Israel is a demonstration of what happens if you don't stop at the 5 yard line. If you actually do the hard work of those extra 5 yards.... You actually have the potential to virtually eradicate the disease. Israel is nearly at the point where they have zero community spread -- just a handful of cases from international travel.
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
I think it's a safe bet to say they are identical. The county site where my wife and I got our shots had us stand in the same line and people getting their first doses when we got our second and the tables set up for vaccinations didn't have separate stacks of needles labeled for first or second shots.
I thought I had read it in trial info too. The article did confirm it when I finally went back to read.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
Got it. So maskless Christmas party [ON] off ? 😀
I suppose it depends on when Disney starts celebrating Christmas. I don't think anyone will be wearing masks outside in October - inside, they may still want people to wear them. At that point, everyone who wants a vaccine will have had one, so my best guess is they may be recommended but not required.
 

Dranth

Well-Known Member
Well rights of the individual are an important component of The Constitution.
True but let's be honest, a large chunk of the US population has done little research into the people, discussions, papers, books, articles etc. published/written by the very people who put it all together. The "I can do what I want cause freedom" is a more modern take and not altogether accurate to the original vision.

Not saying you are doing this at all but just in general it's something that has really come to the forefront during the last year. Maybe I'm way off and it is just a vocal minority but it really seems like that group just gets larger as time goes. The loss of nuance just makes me kind of sad.
 

Parker in NYC

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
True but let's be honest, a large chunk of the US population has done little research into the people, discussions, papers, books, articles etc. published/written by the very people who put it all together. The "I can do what I want cause freedom" is a more modern take and not altogether accurate to the original vision.

Not saying you are doing this at all but just in general it's something that has really come to the forefront during the last year. Maybe I'm way off and it is just a vocal minority but it really seems like that group just gets larger as time goes. The loss of nuance just makes me kind of sad.
People follow whatever cult they subscribe to, especially in the modern age where every voice has an immediate platform via social media. The loudest cults are usually the... loudest. There's really no way around it. Oh, and there's money to be made...
 
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DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Correct -- We should see very significant decline.

But here is what is getting lost: The difference between case REDUCTION vs herd immunity (ERADICATION).

There seems to be an attitude that they are the same thing.... that if we can get cases down significantly, where we have ongoing 10,000-20,000 cases per day, "that's good enough." There seems to be a wide belief that eradication just won't be possible, so let's not try.

Israel is a demonstration of what happens if you don't stop at the 5 yard line. If you actually do the hard work of those extra 5 yards.... You actually have the potential to virtually eradicate the disease. Israel is nearly at the point where they have zero community spread -- just a handful of cases from international travel.
If eradication requires mitigation past where everybody who wants to be vaccinated has been or requires mandatory vaccination then it's not going to happen. Very few States will have mandated mitigation past that point. Possibly some will keep the mask mandates to make sure you know who is in charge.
 

Kevin_W

Well-Known Member
This really is a great idea! If the United States of America would just become another country across the ocean, give up the pesky American freedoms and individual liberty that allow them to make their own choices, become a totally different nation with a totally different set of laws, then America could be great at ridding themselves of this deadly virus! Americans are so annoying with their "individual freedoms" that put people like me and my loved ones at risk from this debilitating disease. They should know that true freedom isn't about being free to do what they choose, but it is freedom to do what experts choose. Otherwise, why would we even have experts? I think the rules need to be rewritten from people having God given inalienable rights, to having havoc315 given inalienable rights*. He clearly knows what is best for the collective. If you aren't willing to take place in the largest vaccine trial program in history, do you even deserve freedom?

*May include loss of personal liberty because it's safer that way

Because Britain and Israel are know as oppressive regimes with no personal freedoms? C'mon.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
...at what point does that give? ...at some point we have to have the freedom to make our own decisions...

...when things might change. There HAS to be some type of return to normalcy incentive ...

...Fauci didn’t ever really have an answer either... ...so when is life normal again...

you don’t get what I’m saying it’s not up to us to come up with a return to normal number it’s for the experts who can’t give us an answer which concerns me
You keep asking, when a return to normal. That's not any of the medical experts calls. None of them can answer that. They can tell you what the impact of doing XYZ is to current spread and impacts. That's not a "when" though. The "when" is a policy decision. A policy that's dependent on defining a level of impact that we can consider "normal". The best the experts an do is estimate (guess) at when we'll get to to that normal target, assuming actions we're taking today stay consistent. They can add in predictions with changing actions, but they'll just get less and less accurate estimates. Because they're all just guessing, and nobody is defining what level of impact is normal, you'll never get a hard answer. If you did, it would be wrong anyway.

Before you can define the "when" you have to define the goal.

I get it just fine. I don't know the "when", but I've shared (and others have) what they think the target should be. After that, it's just watching the data to see how we're moving towards the target or not. We'll get there when we get there. Generally speaking, we're moving in the correct direction.

For some, their targets look like they'll take all of 2020. For others, we're there already, it's over, target reached. Most are in between.

If you cannot say what done means you, nobody can tell you when we'll get there.

The tone coming through is that you want to be done NOW. So, either the current levels are fine with you, or you've got a problem that your when and your target aren't in agreement.

Its cause it changes daily with new information.
To be clear, this is mostly new information about the actions we've taken and how the impacts of those actions is playing out. Vaccinate a record number of people, we'll get lower faster, arrive at a low target faster. Throw a raging club party over spring break with no mitigations, we'll create more spread, take longer to get to a lower target. Figure out how to use an extra dose from an existing vial, faster. Halt distribution of a vaccine, slower.

With so many moving parts, there's no way for an estimate today based on "things continue as-is" to ever be right. Assuming we've all even agreed on the target.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
you don’t get what I’m saying it’s not up to us to come up with a return to normal number it’s for the experts who can’t give us an answer which concerns me
It’s not really totally up to the experts either. It’s up to politicians and business owners (or management in the case of large public companies like Disney). Both politicians and business owners take public health expert’s opinions into consideration but most are swayed more by public opinion than medical experts. We have a lot of say in how long mitigations stick around. We as in the collective population, not we as in each individual. So while some people have felt all along that mitigations were unnecessary or overreaches, the majority of Americans supported them and so they were an easy call for politicians and business owners. As majority opinion changes we will see those leaders change too. So even if Fauci or the CDC are saying don’t have WDW open without masks or distancing its up to state and local government (not going to restrict them) and Disney management who aren’t as likely to hold on to restrictions opposed by the majority of their customers.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
If eradication requires mitigation past where everybody who wants to be vaccinated has been or requires mandatory vaccination then it's not going to happen. Very few States will have mandated mitigation past that point. Possibly some will keep the mask mandates to make sure you know who is in charge.

The best mitigation is a vaccine passport. Do anything you want, as long as you’re vaccinated. If you’re not vaccinated, stay away from gathering places.

But as Dr. Gottlieb implied, we aren’t willing to do that as a society.

Alternatively, have a lockdown for 4 weeks. But our society isn’t willing to do that either.

So, our societal impatience might lead to Covid sticking around, when quite reasonable actions would have eradicated it.
 
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