Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[correcaminos]

Let me first state that I am certainly not against vaccines and feel we should get as many people done as we can. But when I see people say a vaccine passport would not have anything to do with HIPAA I have to speak up. Why do you think a restaurant or hotel can't ask what a person's medical necessity to bring a companion dog? Because that would be forcing them to give their medical information. If I bring my emotional support chimpanzee on a plane they can not question why I need it. The whole idea that HIPAA is not involved because people would be choosing to go somewhere knowing they would be forced to give their info is nonsense. HIPAA laws state the you can not discriminate or infringe on an individual based on whatever medical state they are in and you can not compel them to release their information, or as an entity release their medical info without their permission. Going to Disney, or going to a restaurant or hotel is just that. There has been a ton of court challenges to this and it holds solid. This is the same reason I can go on Ebay and get a support dog vest for my dog and then take it into the Magic Kingdom with me. Is it my voluntary choice to go to WDW? Yes, it is, but I do it secure in the knowledge than under HIPAA laws Disney can not ask me about the dog or my condition that would require the dog. I am posting this not as an expert but and as a retired LEO with a few years in law school and a sister who is a doctor, who had a major HIPAA lawsuit brought against her. For the record she won but it was a case that never should have been filed. HIPAA laws are incredibly broad and the courts in nearly every case have interpreted it to be "don't ask don't tell". If any of you "experts" out the care to quote some case law I would be happy to see it.

ESAs are not protected. They actually are not being allowed the same way true service dogs are allowed on planes. They can now charge you and require you to crate it like any pet. There are two questions you may ask
1. Is the animal required because of a disability?
2. What work or task has the animal been trained to perform?

Service Animals and Emotional Support Animals | ADA National Network

(Printer-friendly PDF version | 555 KB) (Large Print PDF version | 565 KB) Service Animals and Emotional Support Animals Where are they allowed and under what conditions? Jacquie Brennan Vinh Nguyen (Ed.) Southwest ADA Center A program of ILRU at TIRR Memorial Hermann Foreword This manual is...

adata.org

Support animals are not allowed in Disney parks. Service animals are.
"Service animal means a dog or miniature horse that is trained to do work or perform tasks for, and to assist, an individual with a disability. All other animals, including emotional support, comfort or companion animals, are not considered service animals."

Walt Disney World Resort Property Rules

Read the full property rules for Walt Disney World theme parks.

www.disneyworld.eu

 

[Polkadotdress]

If I bring my emotional support chimpanzee on a plane they can not question why I need it.

Like @helenabear said above emotional support animal are not considered service animals. Furthermore, chimps are not a type of animal that would be allowed as a service animal. It's only dogs and miniature ponies.

 

[drizgirl]

Could a case be made that since the federal government is supplying and paying for the vaccine, they are entitled to the vaccination data?

But then wouldn't the government also be entitled to all the medical information of everyone on Medicare? Since they are paying?

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

A famous face on the screen grabs someone's attention quicker than someone who is behind the scenes. Advertisers know this.

You are correct with advertisers and ratings. The all mighty dollar wins again.

 

[havoc315]

They sure as heck won't be doing a rapid test on every guest... cost's way to much.

I'm guessing they will drop the "Temp" checks, as those are pointless anyways right after easter.
Mask policy goes away by July.

Soon, about $5 per test for rapid testing. Likely too expensive unless WDW simply adds a $5 surcharge to each ticket.

Still unlikely, the mechanics are difficult.

Easy would be to just put the onus on guests and use a vaccine/testing passport like in NY. Unfortunately, it’s become a culture war where it’s really just simple sound health policy.

 

[havoc315]

Could a case be made that since the federal government is supplying and paying for the vaccine, they are entitled to the vaccination data?

They are getting the data. It’s already doing to the CDC.

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

Though there is some state to state variance on exactly what is getting reported.

 

[Tinkwings]

You are correct with advertisers and ratings. The all mighty dollar wins again.

But bottom line is that whatever it takes to get more people vaccinated is a win for EVERYONE......

 

[ABQ]

Good news, appears WDW is hosting vaccine clinics on site for cast.

 

[Chi84]

Let me first state that I am certainly not against vaccines and feel we should get as many people done as we can. But when I see people say a vaccine passport would not have anything to do with HIPAA I have to speak up. Why do you think a restaurant or hotel can't ask what a person's medical necessity to bring a companion dog? Because that would be forcing them to give their medical information. If I bring my emotional support chimpanzee on a plane they can not question why I need it. The whole idea that HIPAA is not involved because people would be choosing to go somewhere knowing they would be forced to give their info is nonsense. HIPAA laws state the you can not discriminate or infringe on an individual based on whatever medical state they are in and you can not compel them to release their information, or as an entity release their medical info without their permission. Going to Disney, or going to a restaurant or hotel is just that. There has been a ton of court challenges to this and it holds solid. This is the same reason I can go on Ebay and get a support dog vest for my dog and then take it into the Magic Kingdom with me. Is it my voluntary choice to go to WDW? Yes, it is, but I do it secure in the knowledge than under HIPAA laws Disney can not ask me about the dog or my condition that would require the dog. I am posting this not as an expert but and as a retired LEO with a few years in law school and a sister who is a doctor, who had a major HIPAA lawsuit brought against her. For the record she won but it was a case that never should have been filed. HIPAA laws are incredibly broad and the courts in nearly every case have interpreted it to be "don't ask don't tell". If any of you "experts" out the care to quote some case law I would be happy to see it.

HIPAA doesn't say any of that, although some of what you stated involves the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act). There's no need to refer to case law - just read what is stated in the Act (it's the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act). HIPAA doesn't prevent restaurants or hotels from asking about service dogs or medical information, although the ADA does to some extent. HIPAA sets national standards to protect medical records and personal health information, but it apples only to health plans, health care clearinghouses and health care providers that conduct certain health care transactions electronically. Your sister, as a doctor, would be a healthcare provider and therefore subject to the act. Restaurants, hotels and Disney are not.

To the extent that HIPAA would have any application in the area of vaccine passports, it does give patients rights over their own heath information, including rights to examine and obtain a copy of their health records. If someone wanted to provide the federal government with a copy of their own health records, including a record of being vaccinated for COVID through the state, no state could refuse to provide it.

 

[Chi84]

Then why don't school vaccination requirements run afoul of HIPAA?

Does HIPAA Apply to Schools?

Does HIPAA apply to schools? Here we explore the circumstances when HIPAA applies to schools and how HIPAA intersects with FERPA.

www.hipaajournal.com

This article contains a good explanation.

 

[Incomudro]

For the 100th time, it doesn’t work that way. Unless you’re trying to create a variant the vaccines are less effective against.

Prior post showing how not getting vaccinated extends the time mitigations are necessary.


I’m starting to think the people who don’t want to get vaccinated want to continue mitigations forever. That’s the direct consequence of not enough people being vaccinated. The message isn’t “get vaccinated, stop masking immediately”. The message is “don’t get vaccinated, wear a mask forever”. Imposed on themselves and in any gathering unsure if everyone is vaccinated.

In a prior post, I said nobody was in favor of mitigations forever. I was wrong. Clearly all the people who don’t want to get vaccinated are in favor of mitigation forever.

One of the problems is that this message isn't put out there clearly enough, and often enough.
I believe that many people who don't want the vaccine, but don't necessarily fall into the usual anti vaxer crowd - haven't gotten this message.

 

[jlhwdw]

I'm more convinced than ever that some people are looking for every reason to not be optimistic and not want to get back to a new semblance of normal. And I say this as a liberal snowflake!

 

[GoofGoof]

Let me first state that I am certainly not against vaccines and feel we should get as many people done as we can. But when I see people say a vaccine passport would not have anything to do with HIPAA I have to speak up. Why do you think a restaurant or hotel can't ask what a person's medical necessity to bring a companion dog? Because that would be forcing them to give their medical information. If I bring my emotional support chimpanzee on a plane they can not question why I need it. The whole idea that HIPAA is not involved because people would be choosing to go somewhere knowing they would be forced to give their info is nonsense. HIPAA laws state the you can not discriminate or infringe on an individual based on whatever medical state they are in and you can not compel them to release their information, or as an entity release their medical info without their permission. Going to Disney, or going to a restaurant or hotel is just that. There has been a ton of court challenges to this and it holds solid. This is the same reason I can go on Ebay and get a support dog vest for my dog and then take it into the Magic Kingdom with me. Is it my voluntary choice to go to WDW? Yes, it is, but I do it secure in the knowledge than under HIPAA laws Disney can not ask me about the dog or my condition that would require the dog. I am posting this not as an expert but and as a retired LEO with a few years in law school and a sister who is a doctor, who had a major HIPAA lawsuit brought against her. For the record she won but it was a case that never should have been filed. HIPAA laws are incredibly broad and the courts in nearly every case have interpreted it to be "don't ask don't tell". If any of you "experts" out the care to quote some case law I would be happy to see it.

Sorry, but HIPAA doesn’t have anything to do with asking for proof with service animals. The ADA governs service animals and a business can ask you whether the animal is a service animal and they can also ask you what task the animal performs for you. A business cannot ask you for proof of disability but that’s related to potential discrimination or harassment against the disabled person, it has nothing to do with privacy of the medical records. The ADA also narrowly covers protected classes and disabilities. Emotional support animals are not covered so in theory an airline or WDW could stop you from entering with one and they could also ask for more proof of need if they desired.

HIPAA protects you from a medical provider sharing your health records without your permission. It’s why if I call a doctor‘s office for my wife they won’t give me any information unless I’m listed on her account as an authorized contact. In relation to a vaccine passport I would assume a hospital or a pharmacy chain could not share your vaccination record with a third party app without your permission without violating the law. That’s the extent that HIPAA applies to vaccine passports. The way the existing passports work is you register yourself with the company that runs them and as part of the registration you are authorizing the company to reach out to a State run database to verify your vaccination status. Once you have been verified there is no issue with a company like Disney or a cruise line or the New York Yankees asking you to show proof of vaccination. Whether you use a 3rd party app or just show the paper vaccine records they give you when you get a shot there’s no issue with HIPAA because you are voluntarily sharing that information.

 

[GoofGoof]

HIPAA doesn't say any of that, although some of what you stated involves the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act). There's no need to refer to case law - just read what is stated in the Act (it's the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act). HIPAA doesn't prevent restaurants or hotels from asking about service dogs or medical information, although the ADA does to some extent. HIPAA sets national standards to protect medical records and personal health information, but it apples only to health plans, health care clearinghouses and health care providers that conduct certain health care transactions electronically. Your sister, as a doctor, would be a healthcare provider and therefore subject to the act. Restaurants, hotels and Disney are not.

To the extent that HIPAA would have any application in the area of vaccine passports, it does give patients rights over their own heath information, including rights to examine and obtain a copy of their health records. If someone wanted to provide the federal government with a copy of their own health records, including a record of being vaccinated for COVID through the state, no state could refuse to provide it.

This is a good point and perhaps a loophole around FL refusing to participate in any vaccine passport programs. It would take longer than just providing access to the state database directly, but if they refuse to share that information with the federal government or a 3rd party provider after you requested it from them then the state would actually be violating HIPAA itself.

 

[GoofGoof]

One of the problems is that this message isn't put out there clearly enough, and often enough.
I believe that many people who don't want the vaccine, but don't necessarily fall into the usual anti vaxer crowd - haven't gotten this message.

I’ve been saying this for a while. We need a stepped up PR campaign. Smoking was cool until they came up with some very successful ads that made smoking “uncool”. It’s time to make not getting vaccinated “uncool”.

 

[GimpYancIent]

This is a good point and perhaps a loophole around FL refusing to participate in any vaccine passport programs. It would take longer than just providing access to the state database directly, but if they refuse to share that information with the federal government or a 3rd party provider after you requested it from them then the state would actually be violating HIPAA itself.

It all hinges on people wanting to share their information. Some people see it as a progressive good thing to do, some people don't care, some people see it as an annoyance and others as an invasion of privacy. No I do not see voluntary sharing working out.

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm more convinced than ever that some people are looking for every reason to not be optimistic and not want to get back to a new semblance of normal. And I say this as a liberal snowflake!

I'm getting optimistic about life returning to normal soon. I will say it is concerning that more younger people are being hospitalized for Covid and no one cares. I get that people are getting vaccinated now and things are getting better. The group filling hospitals are the ones who aren't getting the vaccines.

Personally I am at the point where watching people over react to everything Covid related is entertainment to me now. It's actually quite funny.

 

[GoofGoof]

It all hinges on people wanting to share their information. Some people see it as a progressive good thing to do, some people don't care, some people see it as an annoyance and others as an invasion of privacy. No I do not see voluntary sharing working out.

It is completely voluntary. You don’t have to share anything with anyone. If a business wants to require you to be vaccinated to take a cruise or go to a ball game or visit a theme park it’s your choice to go or not. If you don’t want to share your vaccination status or a negative test result with that business you don’t have to, you just stay home. If you don’t want to use an app you can use the old fashioned paper copy of vaccine proof. The app is a convenience for people. There’s no invasion of privacy.

 

[Chi84]

This is starting to sound like the old fights over smoking all those years ago. When non-smokers first started complaining about smoke in restaurants, the answer was "if you don't like it, stay home." Several years later, when no-smoking laws were the norm, smokers were told "if you don't like it, stay home." I hope we can avoid being this divisive with vaccine passports, if they actually come into play. That said, one side or the other will likely become dominant based on what people want to happen. Hopefully, we'll be able to get the virus under control to the point vaccine passports won't be necessary.

 

[Jrb1979]

This is starting to sound like the old fights over smoking all those years ago. When non-smokers first started complaining about smoke in restaurants, the answer was "if you don't like it, stay home." Several years later, when no-smoking laws were the norm, smokers were told "if you don't like it, stay home." I hope we can avoid being this divisive with vaccine passports, if they actually come into play. That said, one side or the other will likely become dominant based on what people want to happen. Hopefully, we'll be able to get the virus under control to the point vaccine passports won't be necessary.

I want to believe that but vaccine passports are already being talked about for parts of the UK. I see it being required for air travel, concerts sporting events. Basically any large gatherings.