Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Chi84]

No. A presidential executive order cannot override state law. The Federal Government is free to setup a vaccine passport system but they cannot require any state to use it. If the Federal system is established which would be used for things like TSA at airports and International travel which are under the control of the Federal government I am not sure how residents of FL will be handled. Since the executive order also prevents state agencies from sharing vaccination status I would think if you got a vaccine in FL your status would not be easily confirmed. Not sure if a pharmacy chain would have the records and be able to link them, but for anyone that went to a government run vaccination site your record won’t be shared based on this EO. Could mean people have issues taking cruises or traveling Internationally.

What about the doctrine of federal preemption based on the Supremacy Clause? I'm not sure what you mean, but no Florida law could conflict with federal law to the extent that it would interfere with international travel. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?

Mask mandates don't interfere with anyone's right to travel or transact business. Vaccine passports may do both. Different considerations are involved that may (probably will) result in the federal government getting involved.

 

[Kiwiduck]

I got friends in New Zealand. They can't leave. It's the equivalent of booking a two bedroom at SSR and looking across the way at Disney Springs knowing you can't get there.

That's not true - you can leave NZ any time you want but if want to come back you have to have a negative Covid test and a spot booked in a managed isolation hotel for two weeks; the kicker being that there is a long waiting list for these spots. In other words you can go to Disney Springs but if you want to come back to SSR you have to hang out at Homecomin and Uniqlo for 3 months while you wait for a spot to open for you in the SSR lobby and then sleep on a sofa near the check-in desk for two weeks before you go back to your two bedroom room.

 

[DCBaker]

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

you can leave NZ any time you want but if want to come back you have to have a negative Covid test and a spot booked in a managed isolation hotel for two weeks

That's why they won't leave. Not worth the hassle. Technically, yes you can leave. Practically, it doesn't make sense to.

 

[JoeCamel]

That's not true - you can leave NZ any time you want but if want to come back you have to have a negative Covid test and a spot booked in a managed isolation hotel for two weeks; the kicker being that there is a long waiting list for these spots. In other words you can go to Disney Springs but if you want to come back to SSR you have to hang out at Homecomin and Uniqlo for 3 months while you wait for a spot to open for you in the SSR lobby and then sleep on a sofa near the check-in desk for two weeks before you go back to your two bedroom room.

With your username I believe you

 

[GoofGoof]

What about the doctrine of federal preemption based on the Supremacy Clause? I'm not sure what you mean, but no Florida law could conflict with federal law to the extent that it would interfere with international travel. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?

I don’t think the executive order has anything to do with International travel. The Federal government would set all requirements for International travel. If at the federal level they require proof of vaccination to get on an international flight there isn’t anything a governor can do about that.

I was referring to the state of FL being willing to link their state vaccination data to a potential federal vaccine passport system. If FL government agencies are not allowed to share people’s vaccination status then that could be problematic for people living in FL if they want to participate. Any federal system would rely on accessing state databases since to my knowledge we don’t have a federal database of everyone who has been vaccinated. That system would also likely be run by a third party similar to the trial system setup in New York.

From the Executive Order:
Section 1. No Florida government entity, or its subdivisions, agents, or assigns, shall be permitted to issue vaccine passports, vaccine passes, or other standardized documentation for the purpose of certifying an individual's COVID-19 vaccination status to a third party, or otherwise publish or share any individual's COVID-19 vaccination record or similar health information.

 

[danlb_2000]

I don’t think the executive order has anything to do with International travel. The Federal government would set all requirements for International travel. If at the federal level they require proof of vaccination to get on an international flight there isn’t anything a governor can do about that.

I was referring to the state of FL being willing to link their state vaccination data to a potential federal vaccine passport system. If FL government agencies are not allowed to share people’s vaccination status then that could be problematic for people living in FL if they want to participate. Any federal system would rely on accessing state databases since to my knowledge we don’t have a federal database of everyone who has been vaccinated. That system would also likely be run by a third party similar to the trial system setup in New York.

From the Executive Order:
Section 1. No Florida government entity, or its subdivisions, agents, or assigns, shall be permitted to issue vaccine passports, vaccine passes, or other standardized documentation for the purpose of certifying an individual's COVID-19 vaccination status to a third party, or otherwise publish or share any individual's COVID-19 vaccination record or similar health information.

Could a case be made that since the federal government is supplying and paying for the vaccine, they are entitled to the vaccination data?

 

[GoofGoof]

On a note related to vaccine passports, I had seen a news report that Royal Caribbean is moving forward with their plans to have Caribbean cruises leave from Bermuda and the Bahamas and they will be requiring proof of vaccination for anyone 18+ and a negative Covid test for anyone under 18. They had initially made this plan since the US was slow on allowing cruises back but now they can’t come back to FL terminals as long as the executive order stands and their policy is in place.

 

[Chi84]

I don’t think the executive order has anything to do with International travel. The Federal government would set all requirements for International travel. If at the federal level they require proof of vaccination to get on an international flight there isn’t anything a governor can do about that.

I was referring to the state of FL being willing to link their state vaccination data to a potential federal vaccine passport system. If FL government agencies are not allowed to share people’s vaccination status then that could be problematic for people living in FL if they want to participate. Any federal system would rely on accessing state databases since to my knowledge we don’t have a federal database of everyone who has been vaccinated. That system would also likely be run by a third party similar to the trial system setup in New York.

From the Executive Order:
Section 1. No Florida government entity, or its subdivisions, agents, or assigns, shall be permitted to issue vaccine passports, vaccine passes, or other standardized documentation for the purpose of certifying an individual's COVID-19 vaccination status to a third party, or otherwise publish or share any individual's COVID-19 vaccination record or similar health information.

I think the EO is overly broad and could result in conflicts between federal and state governments in areas where the federal government would take precedence. It's impossible to say just yet because the EO is attempting to prevent situations that have not yet occurred. Again, I would wait before placing too much importance on it.

 

[mmascari]

So OK, no problem... start carrying your PAPER CDC vaccination card. Inconvenient, but exactly the same as carrying a PAPER US passport. Those mass locations that demand proof of vaccination may very well be at a serious ADVANTAGE, perceived as safer. There are a load of other business dodges... two lines, one for COVID Card , another for mandatory test .

The value of the perceived safety, along with how safe eliminating other mitigation measures actually is, depends on the trust conveyed by the passport. One that checks in a database that’s matching to independent verifiable vaccine information provides that. One that’s relatively standard, with security measures to prevent fraud, issued by a trusted authority who verified vaccine information to issue, pretty strong too. One that someone can make on their own that looks exactly like a real one with no way to know or not, doesn’t really provide any trust at all.

The NY one appears to have strong verification for NY residents. It’ll be interesting to see what CA rolls out. This is much easier in states that planned central records from the start.

 

[GoofGoof]

Could a case be made that since the federal government is supplying and paying for the vaccine, they are entitled to the vaccination data?

I don’t know why we didn’t set up a national database anyway from the start. I think the sticking point could be sharing the data with a 3rd party. The way the passport system in NY works is you register, give them your vaccination data and location and they connect to the state database to confirm your vaccination status. If a third party cannot connect to the state database in FL the Federal government would need to scrape all the data out and house it in their own database. Then it should be doable.

 

[DisneyCane]

No. A presidential executive order cannot override state law. The Federal Government is free to setup a vaccine passport system but they cannot require any state to use it. If the Federal system is established which would be used for things like TSA at airports and International travel which are under the control of the Federal government I am not sure how residents of FL will be handled. Since the executive order also prevents state agencies from sharing vaccination status I would think if you got a vaccine in FL your status would not be easily confirmed. Not sure if a pharmacy chain would have the records and be able to link them, but for anyone that went to a government run vaccination site your record won’t be shared based on this EO. Could mean people have issues taking cruises or traveling Internationally.

I could be wrong but I think that a Federal vaccine passport that was mandatory could be found to violate HIPAA and thus be illegal. Proof of health insurance is different because you aren't sharing any health information.

Could a case be made that since the federal government is supplying and paying for the vaccine, they are entitled to the vaccination data?

I don’t know why we didn’t set up a national database anyway from the start. I think the sticking point could be sharing the data with a 3rd party. The way the passport system in NY works is you register, give them your vaccination data and location and they connect to the state database to confirm your vaccination status. If a third party cannot connect to the state database in FL the Federal government would need to scrape all the data out and house it in their own database. Then it should be doable.

The only way they could set up a database is if they made accepting the vaccine contingent on agreeing to let the Federal Government have the data. If you think there's a segment who doesn't want to be vaccinated because they don't trust the government now, imagine how many more there would be if you had to agree to be in a Federal vaccine database in order to take it.

Personally I wouldn't really care but there are many people that would. The Federal government does not have the authority to collect the data without consent. The Federal government also does not have the authority to scrape data from any State database. The States are reporting statistics to the CDC, not personally identifiable information.

 

[DisneyCane]

I think the EO is overly broad and could result in conflicts between federal and state governments in areas where the federal government would take precedence. It's impossible to say just yet because the EO is attempting to prevent situations that have not yet occurred. Again, I would wait before placing too much importance on it.

What conflict between Federal and State could there be from that EO? Air travel? The EO doesn't matter for that because if they try to impose a vaccine passport requirement for domestic travel the lawsuits will fly faster than RotR BGs run out.

I guess the Federal government could require a vaccine passport to enter a National Park or other Federal property but the State doesn't have jurisdiction over that anyway so there is no conflict.

 

[GoofGoof]

I could be wrong but I think that a Federal vaccine passport that was mandatory could be found to violate HIPAA and thus be illegal. Proof of health insurance is different because you aren't sharing any health information.

It wouldn’t be mandatory. Like the one setup in NY you would have to register with the site first and then they confirm the data. By registering you authorize the 3rd party to confirm your status. There’s no issue with HIPAA.

 

[danlb_2000]

I could be wrong but I think that a Federal vaccine passport that was mandatory could be found to violate HIPAA and thus be illegal. Proof of health insurance is different because you aren't sharing any health information.

Then why don't school vaccination requirements run afoul of HIPAA?

 

[GoofGoof]

Then why don't school vaccination requirements run afoul of HIPAA?

Nope. If a school shared that information with a third party without your approval then it would be a violation. Just like an employer can legally ask for proof of vaccinations, or a doctor’s note for sick leave or other medically related data and retain that in your file. As long as they don’t share that data without your permission they aren’t in violation. It’s a common misconception that HIPAA laws prevent businesses from being able to ask for proof of medical conditions.

 

[Chi84]

Oh my goodness. HIPAA is not implicated here. Best advice on the EO is wait and see.

 

[Bullseye1967]

Oh my goodness. HIPAA is not implicated here. Best advice on the EO is wait and see.

I know that Michelle Obama and other famous people are going to be doing a vaccine special on NBC I think???, I hope they address what HIPPA actually is. Seems like a lot could use the lesson.

Let me first state that I am certainly not against vaccines and feel we should get as many people done as we can. But when I see people say a vaccine passport would not have anything to do with HIPAA I have to speak up. Why do you think a restaurant or hotel can't ask what a person's medical necessity to bring a companion dog? Because that would be forcing them to give their medical information. If I bring my emotional support chimpanzee on a plane they can not question why I need it. The whole idea that HIPAA is not involved because people would be choosing to go somewhere knowing they would be forced to give their info is nonsense. HIPAA laws state the you can not discriminate or infringe on an individual based on whatever medical state they are in and you can not compel them to release their information, or as an entity release their medical info without their permission. Going to Disney, or going to a restaurant or hotel is just that. There has been a ton of court challenges to this and it holds solid. This is the same reason I can go on Ebay and get a support dog vest for my dog and then take it into the Magic Kingdom with me. Is it my voluntary choice to go to WDW? Yes, it is, but I do it secure in the knowledge than under HIPAA laws Disney can not ask me about the dog or my condition that would require the dog. I am posting this not as an expert but and as a retired LEO with a few years in law school and a sister who is a doctor, who had a major HIPAA lawsuit brought against her. For the record she won but it was a case that never should have been filed. HIPAA laws are incredibly broad and the courts in nearly every case have interpreted it to be "don't ask don't tell". If any of you "experts" out the care to quote some case law I would be happy to see it.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

I know that Michelle Obama and other famous people are going to be doing a vaccine special on NBC I think???, I hope they address what HIPPA actually is. Seems like a lot could use the lesson.

I would rather have a HIPPA compliance officer explain the law to the public with a total breakdown of everything. Having celebrities do these public announcements is a turnoff to a lot of people. It would reach half of the demographic out there.

 

[Lilofan]

I would rather have a HIPPA compliance officer explain the law to the public with a total breakdown of everything. Having celebrities do these public announcements is a turnoff to a lot of people. It would reach half of the demographic out there.

A famous face on the screen grabs someone's attention quicker than someone who is behind the scenes. Advertisers know this.