Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Flugell]

Yeah, don't force people who are perfectly healthy to get the vaccine, just make it impossible for them to live a normal life. All for the "greater good" right? Anyone who supports vaccine passports should immediately start pushing for bans on unhealthy foods. After all we have to protect each others health and unhealthy food creates a huge drag on our health care system as well.

There will always be communicable diseases. Life will always have risk. These passports just continue the further stripping away of our freedoms in the name of "safety".

I find your posting incredibly disheartening! Eating unhealthy foods impacts the eaters’ health but doesn’t put other peoples lives at risk. That is an individual choice that can be made without impacting on other people, in a shop for example. As I understand it most health care in the USA is paid for by insurance and I would like to see evidence that it is a huge drag on hospitals.
You are correct there will always be communicable diseases and life carries risk with the only certainty being death at some point - hopefully far into the future.
However I see no difficulties in stripping away “freedoms” (perhaps you could clarify which freedoms you are finding it so difficult to live without) for safety of strangers, family and friends.
During the war, yes I know it’s a long time ago and no I don’t remember it!, in Britain we had to ensure that all Blackout was observed to try and make the bombers job more difficult. There was no intentional defiance that I can find in any reports. Perhaps it was the possibility that breaking the rules would likely impact on our safety rather than the safety of strangers made the imposition of lockdown type rules easier to observe! Sorry it’s the only example I can think of at 2am.
I also don’t understand the use of quotes around safety, implying that it is of no importance. I presume that you don’t believe in the effectiveness of masks, social distancing or frequent hand washing/sanitising.
I believe that the “greater good” for all should be the prime aim for ALL during a WORLD pandemic. N.B. I also include financial security in the “greater good.”

 

[WillWrambles]

Well, we're not, so...

COVID EXISTS. WE’VE BEEN THROUGH THIS ALREADY.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

I find your posting incredibly disheartening! Eating unhealthy foods impacts the eaters’ health but doesn’t put other peoples lives at risk. That is an individual choice that can be made without impacting on other people, in a shop for example. As I understand it most health care in the USA is paid for by insurance and I would like to see evidence that it is a huge drag on hospitals.
You are correct there will always be communicable diseases and life carries risk with the only certainty being death at some point - hopefully far into the future.
However I see no difficulties in stripping away “freedoms” (perhaps you could clarify which freedoms you are finding it so difficult to live without) for safety of strangers, family and friends.
During the war, yes I know it’s a long time ago and no I don’t remember it!, in Britain we had to ensure that all Blackout was observed to try and make the bombers job more difficult. There was no intentional defiance that I can find in any reports. Perhaps it was the possibility that breaking the rules would likely impact on our safety rather than the safety of strangers made the imposition of lockdown type rules easier to observe! Sorry it’s the only example I can think of at 2am.
I also don’t understand the use of quotes around safety, implying that it is of no importance. I presume that you don’t believe in the effectiveness of masks, social distancing or frequent hand washing/sanitising.
I believe that the “greater good” for all should be the prime aim for ALL during a WORLD pandemic. N.B. I also include financial security in the “greater good.”

My problem would be if these passports were made permanent. Would you be happy if you still, to this day, had to keep your lights off at night?

And no I don't believe masks are exceedingly effective, or lockdowns. If they were, the states with the strictest rules through all of this (California, etc.) would already be far ahead, not they're terribly behind the recovery of other states.

By your logic we should also reduce speed limits.

And yes, unhealthy eating is a MASSIVE drag on the US health system raising rates for all of us.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

COVID EXISTS. WE’VE BEEN THROUGH THIS ALREADY.

Sure, but it's not the black plague.

You can freely live in your fear bubble. Carry on.

 

[GhostHost1000]

leave it up to individual businesses to decide if they want to require a vaccine or not - government should not mandate

 

[Archie123]

Well, we're not, so...

Also who gets to say when it's over? Is that with zero cases? 1 year? 10 years from now?

Slippery slope. Powerful people don't like to give up power and control once they have it, it's just a fact of life proven time and time again throughout history.

Just like people who wear their tin foil hats hate to take them off.

 

[ThatMouse]

It sucks there's no way to prove you got the vaccine. We have cards, but they can be easily faked. We have a registry of vaccines for children, so why can't we have the same thing for adults? The cruise lines are requiring COVID tests. I'd rather show that I got the vaccine than to have to get a COVID test 3 days before and risk one of us getting a false positive from one of the bozos in a lab.

 

[Flugell]

My problem would be if these passports were made permanent. Would you be happy if you still, to this day, had to keep your lights off at night?

And no I don't believe masks are exceedingly effective, or lockdowns. If they were, the states with the strictest rules through all of this (California, etc.) would already be far ahead, not they're terribly behind the recovery of other states.

By your logic we should also reduce speed limits.

And yes, unhealthy eating is a MASSIVE drag on the US health system raising rates for all of us.

I would have no problem with vaccine passports remaining in place until the virus was no more virulent throughout the world than other communicable disease. Many countries also require vaccination certificates for yellow fever, polio and meningitis so I see no difference between that and vaccination proof for Covid-19.
Obviously I would not be happy with a blackout instruction remaining in place as fortunately there are no longer bombers flying overhead so it is no longer necessary!
I respect your personal opinion that masks etc. don’t work but surely it’s better to err on the side of scientific based caution? I can assure you that lockdowns, however unpopular, have worked in the U.K. and are being introduced again in large parts of Europe. I would not look at individual states as proving or disproving the effectiveness of your mitigation in the USA. Look further South to the disaster that is Brazil where virtually nothing has been enforced to prevent the spread of Covid-19.
As for speed limits I wouldn’t advocate lowering them but would urge them to be enforced more rigorously. (Speaking from a U.K. perspective here as I don’t have enough knowledge to comment on the USA limits or enforcement.)
I’ll take your word for the increase in insurance rates caused by overweight patients in the USA. I would take a bet that the impact of Covid-19, including long Covid will cause a bigger increase. We’re lucky to have the NHS so don’t have to consider that aspect of healthcare.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

My problem would be if these passports were made permanent. Would you be happy if you still, to this day, had to keep your lights off at night?

And no I don't believe masks are exceedingly effective, or lockdowns. If they were, the states with the strictest rules through all of this (California, etc.) would already be far ahead, not they're terribly behind the recovery of other states.

By your logic we should also reduce speed limits.

And yes, unhealthy eating is a MASSIVE drag on the US health system raising rates for all of us.

The irony here is that your slippery slope arguments (a logical fallacy, mind you) is what would ultimately keep us from exiting the pandemic in the first place.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

The irony here is that your slippery slope arguments (a logical fallacy, mind you) is what would ultimately keep us from exiting the pandemic in the first place.

California alone proves that idea wrong. Just my opinion, but I don't believe history will look kindly upon the lockdowns. I am not an anti masker nor am I anti vaccines. I simply prefer personal choice in those matters for anything very long term, like 2+ years.

If Disney wants to make it a requirement to have the vaccine to get in for the next year or so, that's fine. I would not, however, be happy if that requirement never went away.

 

[GimpYancIent]

It sucks there's no way to prove you got the vaccine. We have cards, but they can be easily faked. We have a registry of vaccines for children, so why can't we have the same thing for adults? The cruise lines are requiring COVID tests. I'd rather show that I got the vaccine than to have to get a COVID test 3 days before and risk one of us getting a false positive from one of the bozos in a lab.

Fair point. The Elon Musk COVID test issue still rings in my head where he took 4 tests in rapid succession and had 2 positive Results and 2 negative results. A man with his resources one would imagine he would get quality care and accurate tests. The every day person is just left wondering.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

I would have no problem with vaccine passports remaining in place until the virus was no more virulent throughout the world than other communicable disease. Many countries also require vaccination certificates for yellow fever, polio and meningitis so I see no difference between that and vaccination proof for Covid-19.
Obviously I would not be happy with a blackout instruction remaining in place as fortunately there are no longer bombers flying overhead so it is no longer necessary!
I respect your personal opinion that masks etc. don’t work but surely it’s better to err on the side of scientific based caution? I can assure you that lockdowns, however unpopular, have worked in the U.K. and are being introduced again in large parts of Europe. I would not look at individual states as proving or disproving the effectiveness of your mitigation in the USA. Look further South to the disaster that is Brazil where virtually nothing has been enforced to prevent the spread of Covid-19.
As for speed limits I wouldn’t advocate lowering them but would urge them to be enforced more rigorously. (Speaking from a U.K. perspective here as I don’t have enough knowledge to comment on the USA limits or enforcement.)
I’ll take your word for the increase in insurance rates caused by overweight patients in the USA. I would take a bet that the impact of Covid-19, including long Covid will cause a bigger increase. We’re lucky to have the NHS so don’t have to consider that aspect of healthcare.

Lots of good points in there and you seem very level headed. Also sidenote, my wife and I visited London and some of the countryside about 5 years ago and my goodness, just amazing.

 

[celluloid]

California alone proves that idea wrong. Just my opinion, but I don't believe history will look kindly upon the lockdowns. I am not an anti masker nor am I anti vaccines. I simply prefer personal choice in those matters for anything very long term, like 2+ years.

If Disney wants to make it a requirement to have the vaccine to get in for the next year or so, that's fine. I would not, however, be happy if that requirement never went away.

That is always hard to say though. it was and still is a Novel virus. We knew so little about it and had to give experts a chance to figure out what they could study and not be overburdened, which plenty of hospitals were. California was obviously an extreme of extremes outside of China.

 

[HarperRose]

Every place that has ever administered a shot would have had to have everyone that got a shot on list that can be imported into a Federal data bank. That would take time.

Then there's the lawsuits. That would take time.

Then by the time it's settled law, it would be too late...

... for this pandemic. But, best be prepared for the next.

In Wisconsin, everyone who is vaccinated is entered into the state vaccination database, which is updated anytime you get any shot. I can go online and print out every vaccine I've gotten (or for my children) since the database began.

 

[Flugell]

Lots of good points in there and you seem very level headed. Also sidenote, my wife and I visited London and some of the countryside about 5 years ago and my goodness, just amazing.

Well let’s hope we can welcome you back in less than 5 years, hopefully without a vaccine passport, glad you enjoyed your previous visit though!

 

[GoofGoof]

California alone proves that idea wrong. Just my opinion, but I don't believe history will look kindly upon the lockdowns. I am not an anti masker nor am I anti vaccines. I simply prefer personal choice in those matters for anything very long term, like 2+ years.

If Disney wants to make it a requirement to have the vaccine to get in for the next year or so, that's fine. I would not, however, be happy if that requirement never went away.

CA has gone from one of the worst states in cases per capita in Dec to one of the best now. They have actually done pretty well with containing their massive surge with temporary restrictions.

As far as Disney having vaccine passports there would be no reason and certainly no desire from the company to keep vaccine passports forever or even a day longer than they had to to be beneficial, just like there is no need to keep masks and distancing forever. The concept of vaccine passports is a temporary bridge to allow businesses that would otherwise be restricted by masks or distancing to either open or fully open. It’s an alternative to masks and distancing and capacity limits.

 

[WillWrambles]

Sure, but it's not the black plague.

You can freely live in your fear bubble. Carry on.

I’m making a comparison to an actual event. Would rather me say a modern Spanish Flu?

 

[Dan Deesnee]

I’m making a comparison to an actual event. Would rather me say a modern Spanish Flu?

Well, I mean, that would be more accurate.

 

[Bullseye1967]

I’m making a comparison to an actual event. Would rather me say a modern Spanish Flu?

Didn't the black plague kill like 50% of Europe and 30% of the World population? Not saying COVID isn't bad but I don't think we are quite there yet.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

Didn't the black plague kill like 50% of Europe and 30% of the World population? Not saying COVID isn't bad but I don't think we are quite there yet.

Also, and I do not want to go down this rabbit hole, I know two different families who lost loved ones in vehicle accidents last year. Both families had to fight for months to get covid removed as the cause of death. it was listed to the cause simply because they tested positive during their autopsies or however that works.

2020 sucked.