Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[havoc315]

They are approving JnJ as we speak. Now that the data is out officially it’s a formality. Nothing to stop it now but if you believe it won’t be approved I will gladly take that bet.

Just my 2 cents: listing out all of the possible ways that the vaccine rollout could fail is being overly pessimistic. That’s my opinion of course so it can’t be right or wrong. Only listing negative “facts” is by definition being pessimistic. You do you. Nothing you have said so far changes my belief that the vaccines were highly effective against hospitalization and death. Some of those things you listed will never be known. There can always be a new variant or immunity could fade over time. Should the plan be to continue as we are today forever just in case?

My simple solution is this, once everyone has access to the vaccine they start rolling back covid restrictions. Anyone who has been vaccinated but feels the vaccines are not effective can choose to stay home, avoid crowds, and wear a mask still. Nobody will be forced to stop doing those things. There’s no reason to ask people to continue as if nothing has changed once the vaccine is rolled out.

Where did I say it won't be approved? It almost certainly will be approved. And I have been saying that for weeks/months.
But again, honesty, truthfulness and facts are important.
There is a difference between "It's already approved" and "it's likely going to get approved."

And saying things are "unknown" is neither optimistic nor pessimistic. I've cited tons of "positive" and "optimistic" facts.
Saying, "we don't know what percentage will be required for herd immunity" is neither optimistic nor pessimistic.

If someone said, "we won't get to herd immunity until we reach 100% vaccination until 2022!" -- Then am I being an optimist or pessimist when I say, "we don't know that."

And finally -- Your simple solution -- We are ALREADY rolling back Covid restrictions. We've been rolling them back for a while. The question is, when do we ELIMINATE Covid restrictions, when we do allow maskless large gatherings?
And there, every single health expert is in agreement -- We need to wait until we have herd immunity.

You may have your "opinion" that all of the experts are wrong. But I'll side with the experts.

I get you're in a hurry. But if we can prevent 50,000+ deaths (mostly among non-vaccinated people, but including a few vaccinated people) by wearing masks for an extra 4-6 weeks.... Then I'll fully support mandatory mask wearing for an extra 4-6 weeks.
And if we can prevent millions of 2022-2025 deaths by wearing masks for an extra 4-6 weeks in 2021... even more so, I'm all for it.

 

[havoc315]

I agree.

The positive is that the vaccines reduces the number of cases proportionally. For example: If 100 people in vaccinated group got covid and 80 were hospitalized. One might infer that the vaccine protects people prone to non serious covid better than the people prone to serious. As it is it looks like it ( Both Pfizer and Moderna) protects almost equally well whether one would have gotten serious or non serious covid.

Agreed.

 

[havoc315]

We just had a service Monday for my second uncle that passed away from Covid. Strict restrictions on the church seating.. very minimal with only his brothers and sister and their families allowed in. Was surreal.

Sorry for your loss. I've had to attend 2 Zoom funerals/memorials for Covid deaths. (and 1 death that was not Covid).

 

[JAKECOTCenter]

So I know this will never happen but assuming Disney brings back MSEP with a Covid float, will they have a walk around Fauci with it?

 

[danlb_2000]

Did anyone think we’d see the day that @legwand77 and @DisneyCane both loved one of my posts in this thread

I told you guys all along we all wanted the same things, we just disagreed a lot on how to get there. Good times ahead for sure

I am actually shocked that I have started to like more and more of @DisneyCane's posts.

 

[danlb_2000]

Where did I say it won't be approved? It almost certainly will be approved. And I have been saying that for weeks/months.
But again, honesty, truthfulness and facts are important.
There is a difference between "It's already approved" and "it's likely going to get approved."

And saying things are "unknown" is neither optimistic nor pessimistic. I've cited tons of "positive" and "optimistic" facts.
Saying, "we don't know what percentage will be required for herd immunity" is neither optimistic nor pessimistic.

If someone said, "we won't get to herd immunity until we reach 100% vaccination until 2022!" -- Then am I being an optimist or pessimist when I say, "we don't know that."

And finally -- Your simple solution -- We are ALREADY rolling back Covid restrictions. We've been rolling them back for a while. The question is, when do we ELIMINATE Covid restrictions, when we do allow maskless large gatherings?
And there, every single health expert is in agreement -- We need to wait until we have herd immunity.

You may have your "opinion" that all of the experts are wrong. But I'll side with the experts.

I get you're in a hurry. But if we can prevent 50,000+ deaths (mostly among non-vaccinated people, but including a few vaccinated people) by wearing masks for an extra 4-6 weeks.... Then I'll fully support mandatory mask wearing for an extra 4-6 weeks.
And if we can prevent millions of 2022-2025 deaths by wearing masks for an extra 4-6 weeks in 2021... even more so, I'm all for it.

The answer to this is quite simple, "to soon", maybe not everywhere in the country, but definitely in a lot of places. I would put money on it.

 

[havoc315]

The answer to this is quite simple, "to soon", maybe not everywhere in the country, but definitely in a lot of places. I would put money on it.

I agree... as a lot of places were reluctant to ever have any restrictions. But most Americans will continue to deal with significant restrictions. (I suspect California and New York won't allow large maskless gatherings until at least late summer/early fall... and just those two states are already almost 1/5th of all Americans).

 

[_caleb]

I am actually shocked that I have started to like more and more of @DisneyCane's posts.

Yeah, the new guy running that account seems pretty cool.

 

[DisneyCane]

I am actually shocked that I have started to like more and more of @DisneyCane's posts.

Yeah, the new guy running that account seems pretty cool.

Maybe the nanobots from my wife's vaccine somehow got into me!

 

[_caleb]

Maybe the nanobots from my wife's vaccine somehow got into me!

THANK YOU for having a great sense of humor about that post! I was reticent to post it because I know things can get heated around there, but I meant it in jest.

Also, you’re one of the few members here that I actually DON’T suspect of posting under multiple accounts or being run by a marketing team.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

THANK YOU for having a great sense of humor about that post! I was reticent to post it because I know things can get heated around there, but I meant it in jest.

Also, you’re one of the few members here that I actually DON’T suspect of posting under multiple accounts or being run by a marketing team.

He’s good spirited, you can tell from his posts. Now only if he would stop the Fauci and masks stuff I might jump aboard. ( also in jest)

 

[ToTBellHop]

So looking at the data:
In the placebo group, there were 48 infections
In the fully vaccinated group (beyond 28 days for full effectiveness): there were 8 cases of infection

So the reduction from 48 to 8 is statistically significant, and an excellent sign. Even if not as good as Pfizer and Moderna, it's excellent and makes an excellent vaccine.

Now, the reduction in those requiring medical treatment:
In the placebo group, it was 7 out of those 48, meaning 15% of Covid-positive cases needed medical treatment in the placebo group.
In the vaccinated group, it was 0 out of 8.

That data is insufficient to show whether the need for medical treatment is FURTHER reduced in vaccinated Covid-positive cases, or whether it is simply the same reduction as you'd expect based on the reduction in cases).
If it was 70/480 vs 0/80, we would have statistically significant data. But you really can't compare 7 out of 48 with 0 out of 8. Sample size is way too small.

Yes. As we've seen with Pfizer and Moderna, these percentages become more meaningful a month after shots have gone into a million arms. The Catch-22 all along is that we can't wait for stronger data to put shots into arms--thus the EUA before full FDA approval, which I presume will start occurring over the summer.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

This has nothing to do with this thread but it is amazing. Maybe something to take out minds off of the cirus and enjoy some culture from around the world. Each green dot on the globe is a radio station from the city or town. There are thousands. Hover the circle over any place in the world and see what radio station it is and hear what they are playing crystal clear. If the mom or Steve needs to delete this I understand but thought it would be fun. It’s addictive to have some time to explore.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

l.facebook.com

 

[DCBaker]

 

[ToTBellHop]

It's a far cry from "masks for everyone" but it seems correctly-targeted. If only this occurred 12 months ago...

 

[GoofGoof]

Where did I say it won't be approved? It almost certainly will be approved. And I have been saying that for weeks/months.
But again, honesty, truthfulness and facts are important.
There is a difference between "It's already approved" and "it's likely going to get approved."

And saying things are "unknown" is neither optimistic nor pessimistic. I've cited tons of "positive" and "optimistic" facts.
Saying, "we don't know what percentage will be required for herd immunity" is neither optimistic nor pessimistic.

If someone said, "we won't get to herd immunity until we reach 100% vaccination until 2022!" -- Then am I being an optimist or pessimist when I say, "we don't know that."

And finally -- Your simple solution -- We are ALREADY rolling back Covid restrictions. We've been rolling them back for a while. The question is, when do we ELIMINATE Covid restrictions, when we do allow maskless large gatherings?
And there, every single health expert is in agreement -- We need to wait until we have herd immunity.

You may have your "opinion" that all of the experts are wrong. But I'll side with the experts.

I get you're in a hurry. But if we can prevent 50,000+ deaths (mostly among non-vaccinated people, but including a few vaccinated people) by wearing masks for an extra 4-6 weeks.... Then I'll fully support mandatory mask wearing for an extra 4-6 weeks.
And if we can prevent millions of 2022-2025 deaths by wearing masks for an extra 4-6 weeks in 2021... even more so, I'm all for it.

JnJ is going to be approved and we obviously both agree on that. It’s not dishonest to say that we have 3 highly effective vaccines. Again, your desire to argue just to argue. You do you on that.

All of the experts agree 100% with me that the vaccines we have are highly effective in preventing hospitalization and death. You are disagreeing with me and with them and saying they are not. I chose to side with the experts, the FDA, the CDC and the manufacturers.

Nowhere have I talked about being in a hurry, that’s your label for doing things in a reasonable timeframe. Nobody here is saying get rid of all Covid protocols now. I clearly said a few pages back that IF the vaccine rollout is on time and the manufacturers meet their targets and IF enough people agree to get the vaccine it is POSSIBLE we could see cases lowered enough by as early as this summer to see a lot of Covid restrictions reduced or gone. I am not willing to right now on Feb 24 commit to no changes in Covid protocols for an additional 4-6 months after everyone has the vaccine in case that May save an extra 50,000 people (a number that has no basis in science). We have no way of knowing that’s the case at all right now. So based on that plan if the vaccine rollout is complete by July (Biden’s goal) we have no reduction of protocols and no changes to life until between November and January 2022. I’d rather see how the rollout goes and if it’s successful then act accordingly. It’s foolish to set an arbitrary 4-6 additional month goal just in case. People are not going to buy into that and if the vaccines works as expected it won’t be necessary. Remember that we don’t need to wait until every person has received both shots to see the start of the downward trend in cases and the beginning of the reduction in mitigations.

If you chose to avoid public contact for an extra 4-6 months for no good reason that’s your call. The general public won’t do it and businesses like WDW certainly won’t require it. Many people who have faithfully followed the public health recommendations all along will not go along with that either.

 

[SamusAranX]

THANK YOU for having a great sense of humor about that post! I was reticent to post it because I know things can get heated around there, but I meant it in jest.

Also, you’re one of the few members here that I actually DON’T suspect of posting under multiple accounts or being run by a marketing team.

Ok, you got me. I’m a bot account run by Churro Ingredients and Provisioners LLC [a subsidiary of Pete’s Petrochemicals and Wheelbarrows Int’l]. We really need WDW to sell more churros so we advocate against capacity limits and mask rules

 

[ToTBellHop]

Closer than we thought to vaccine #4, as well--Novavax says they should have results from their Phase III around the start of Q2 (April 1) and apply for EUA shortly thereafter, so adding Novavax to the mix in May is not unreasonable.

 

[Miss Bella]

DCL update -

"Disney Cruise Line Coronavirus (COVID-19) Travel Alert

February 24, 2021

Disney Cruise Line Extends Suspension of All Departures Through May 2021 and Disney Magic Sailings Through August 10

Our team at Disney Cruise Line remains focused on the health and well-being of our Guests and team members. We are carefully preparing for a return to service following the guidelines issued by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

As we continue to refine our protocols and await further technical guidance from the CDC, we are cancelling all sailings departing through May 2021.

Disney Magic European Season

Given the likelihood of international borders remaining closed for an extended period of time, we have also made the decision to cancel Disney Magic sailings through August 10, 2021.

Canada Departures

In light of the Canadian government’s announcement that they will not allow ships with more than 100 passengers to dock in any Canadian port until February 28, 2022, we are evaluating various options for the Disney Wonder’s scheduled season in Alaska. Once a decision is made, we will reach out to Guests booked on these sailings.

Additionally, as previously shared, based on the conditional sail order provided by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Disney Cruise Line must cancel sailings longer than 7 nights.

Guests booked on affected sailings, who have paid their reservation in full, will be offered the choice of a cruise credit to be used for a future sailing or a full refund. Guests, who have not paid their reservations in full, will automatically receive a refund of what they have paid so far. Affected Guests and travel agents will receive an email from Disney Cruise Line outlining details and next steps.

Guests who've booked their reservation through a travel agent should contact them directly with any questions. Those who have booked directly with Disney Cruise Line, and have questions after receiving their email, should call (866) 325-6685 or (407) 566-7797."

https://disneycruise.disney.go.com/guest-services/advisory/

It means 2022 European cruises are about to be released. They are hoping people move their cruises again.

 

[ToTBellHop]

It means 2022 European cruises are about to be released. They are hoping people move their cruises again.

All of summer 2022 is coming soon, including Wish.