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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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- coronavirus covid covid-19
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oceanbreeze77
Well-Known Member
I see what youre saying, but this is still very important information. It could mean the difference between 2 and 3 doses.
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
How about you find out why people are somewhat reluctant to take the vaccines before making quips like this. I can tell you polarizing groups and saying we all don't want something won't fix the issue.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
I made a normative statement. I described data that exists and I described it accurately. I made no claims about right, wrong, or why.
Disney Experience
Well-Known Member
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
No you stated groups don't want. It's not that marginalized don't want the vaccine. They have true medical fears that cause hesitation. Not the same thing as not wanting it.
oceanbreeze77
Well-Known Member
Being very careful. Optimistic, but careful.
JAKECOTCenter
Well-Known Member
Start booking your very merry Christmas party tickets
The reporting presentation is poor, but there's actionable information hiding in there.
People keep asking about reducing restrictions and ability to not use mitigation based on either when they get the vaccine or when enough people get the vaccine. The answer for both is no, and no (at least not directly). It's because of this.
Every time the virus spreads from person A to B, it can mutate. Maybe that mutation does nothing, maybe it makes the virus weaker, maybe it makes it spread easier, or maybe if we're really unlucky it mutates in a way where the vaccine isn't effective anymore. (We have not seen the last scenario so far.)
The solution for this is less spreading of the virus, as that will reduce the number of chances for a mutation to occur.
Right now, when there's still tons of virus roaming about the community and there's a middle amount of vaccinated people, is probably the most dangerous. Without mitigation efforts, those vaccinated people are likely to be exposed to lots of virus from lots of different people. Each time a chance for a mutation to get past the vaccine. Most will not, fortunately, but the impact if one does is catastrophic.
That's why vaccinated people still need to wear masks, maintain distance, and other mitigation efforts.
Once spread is low, then a vaccinated person is much less likely to run into the virus. Less interactions, less chances for mutation.
Once enough people get the vaccine, it should disrupt transmission enough that spread is lowered. Once spread is low, that's when we'll get to ditch all the mitigation efforts.
If we never convince enough people to get the vaccine that we're never able to reduce spread, we're in huge trouble. The vaccinated will want stop using mitigation efforts and tell those not vaccinated they're on their own. But, with spread still high, we'll have tons of interactions between the virus and a vaccinated person. Each one a chance for a mutation to occur that's a disaster.
The doctors on the board can tell us how they have to get special approval for some antibiotics, because they're specifically trying to avoid this scenario. They can also tell us about the kinds of problems an antibiotic resistant bacteria causes for patients.
Parents of younger kids can tell us how the lice medication recommended by parents of older kids didn't help them at all. As use over the years and lice that mutated resistance to it escaped and became the dominant spread.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
I'm asking this genuinely because I don't understand and I'd like to understand. What medical fears do (some in) these groups have and why?
I know many doctors and nurses and nothing I've ever seen has shown that they care for minorities any differently than they do white people. I understand access to affordable care issues with people that earn too much for Medicaid and too little for health insurance. When I see comments about reluctance to take a vaccine for a virus that disproportionally effects minority communities I truly don't understand what would cause that reluctance.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you mean by twit-mob, but what we don't want is to push science behind closed doors so that later someone can rail on the lack of transparency and if something serious/bad does show up, "Why didn't anyone warn/tell us!" Personally, I've found it a benefit to be able to use Twitter to go directly to the experts because so many media takes have been sub-par.
I am concerned, however, that this "we're scaring people" is just the new talking point. So far the polling has shown an increased willingness of people to be vaccinated. So what is the point of scaring people into thinking people are scared because of recent media stories? It deflects from the discussions concerning historical, systemic medical trust issues, it places blame on scientists instead of people misrepresenting data/science to serve their personal agenda, and ultimately gives people the excuse they need to turn any potential spotlights off them and onto others. People aren't getting vaccines because of what they heard on last night's news. They aren't getting vaccines because of past "baggage." Changing the news report isn't going to help as much as helping people work through their baggage. Just changing the news story, means that people will just twist some other thing into justification for not having to deal with their baggage.
It's one thing when the sci com people say: we need to do better. We need to be aware of how what we say will be weaponized or intentionally misinterpreted or misrepresented for clicks or politics. We need to be able to translate science speak into things that are easy for regular people to digest. We've never been on a stage like this, and we're learning what being on one like this means. But it's something else to turn that into science needs to abandon what works for the science process, because now that people have a window into the process, people have knowledge gaps or misuse it. That problem needs to be addressed by something other than "shut up science, and go away."
Figgy1
Well-Known Member
I could cite pages worth "experiments" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study is the best known one
DisneyDebRob
Well-Known Member
Another good article on what you asked is here. I also needed to know why. As a white person who hasn’t had most of this stuff thrown at me in my lifetime, I now understand why some are reluctant.
Anti Vaxxers: Understanding Opposition to Vaccines
Despite the fact that vaccines can prevent the spread of highly infectious (and lethal) diseases, the number of people refusing vaccines has increased.
www.healthline.com
hopemax
Well-Known Member
I know people have a hard time believing that someone would change their level of care based on the color of one's skin, but in actuality it seems to happen more than people think it does. People want to believe the best of others, and that what they would do is what others would do and then that drives their thought process of a situation. And a key part is the doctors and nurses may not even realize when they are treating patients different, and that's the whole idea of systemic racism. It may not be an intentional decision, but the decisions remain with sometimes serious consequences. And why it's so hard to have these type of conversations.
Because of the intersection of BLM type stuff, and the medical Epi stuff, I have seen minority doctors talk about the instances they have seen different levels of care. A big one is pain management. People seem to think black people can tolerate higher levels of pain, and are more susceptible to addiction or are faking. But it's not just meds. One doctor shared how her husband was in a serious car accident and experiencing pain throughout the torso and was discharged from the ER without any of the diagnostic tools she knew should be performed after that level of trauma, having occurred (she reported the hospital). A women of color on one of my other forums, talked about a time she was receiving a shot and a nurse brought in a tray. Then looked at the paperwork, said, "oh, you have good insurance." Took the first vial out and then returned with another without explanation. Maybe it was just a difference of name brand vs generic. But the nurse made a judgement call of which vial to grab originally and the person was left wondering if it was a presumption of her ability to pay, based on her skin color. And lingering doubts if the first vial was less effective than the 2nd.
The stories are out there, but with so much experience of being told, "Oh, you just must have misunderstood, I can't believe anyone would do that!" A lot of people are hesitant to share in day-to-day casual interactions because then they are subjected to having to relive the unpleasantness of the original situation and the 3rd degree from people wanting to explain away what happened.
But I'm not sure how far we want to go down this rabbit hole here. If your concern is genuine there are lots of resources.
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Figgy1
Well-Known Member
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
Dear pretending to be woke people stop using Latinx. Gack that's like nails on a chalkboard in this house seeing a word Spanish speakers took and made their own be turned to English words again. Use Latin or Latinos for they.Another good article on what you asked is here. I also needed to know why. As a white person who hasn’t had most of this stuff thrown at me in my lifetime, I now understand why some are reluctant.
Anti Vaxxers: Understanding Opposition to Vaccines
Despite the fact that vaccines can prevent the spread of highly infectious (and lethal) diseases, the number of people refusing vaccines has increased.
The article did hit on Puerto Rico but there is also a strong distrust of western medicine. Historically Natives, Latinos, and Blacks are also treated unequally in the medical world. There is more to it than being guinea pigs - it's also the knowledge that studies prove that marginalized have worse outcomes for like procedures and we think it's often due to negative bias that leads medical workers to not seemingly care about giving adequate care. Also language barriers can come into play for some.
The articles gave some reasons. While you know doctors you likely haven't seen them in action when it mattered. A personal example from this summer. Being a hint vague but a loved one was in the hospital this summer and was denied a covid test when we requested one. They were brushed aside and due to them having brown skin and an accent they had it suggested to test for TB. They live on the mainland in the US. I shared this with a medical friend locally and their first thought was "that's so racist" because honestly it is. This same loved on gets sub par care often and has had infections run amuck until another medical person of color ran tests proving the care was crap prior. My OB is a woman of color so when delivering I felt confident in her care. I was even brushed aside at first when coming in when they sent me. I had full blown horrible HELLP and it took them hours to get me admitted - I look mixed to many and the arab name going with arab and mediteranean blood doesn't help. A very white named friend was treated differently and taken back asap. Even my office calling prior did nothing. When I said they had called, it took them an hour to verify my info. I can share more about that delivery and how they wouldn't let my husband hold my child (I was too sick to go up to the nursery) because who knows... my husband is Puerto Rican so Black, Native and Latino. The own father not allowed. Fortunately a friend was a special care nursery nurse and she loved on our kid. There is lack of trust for a reason.
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Epcot_Imagineer
Well-Known Member
Speaking from someone who has a wife working in a nursing home - it's almost everyone except the doctors who are at this likely 30% acceptance level. RNs, in addition to all other staff, just do not want to take the vaccine and it all stems from click-bait facebook articles. Can't tell you the number of times actual RNs have told her to not take it as it will "make her sterile", and it's not just a few that think this. It quite literally is the majority.
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
I wonder who could be running such a campaign. A couple of actors come to mind
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