Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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GoofGoof

Premium Member
Sorry all i can hear is joe biden...with the come on man in the beginning there.
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lisa12000

Well-Known Member
Your rant, as you put it, has made me feel the need to respond.
I will address the points that you have made 1 by 1.

1. It is easy to put the wrong proposition when typing or talking, so I wasn’t meaning to jump down your throat, though it may have appeared that I was but simply pointing out that the difference between ‘for’ and ‘from in the context of your posting is essential. As I said in the post you are not speaking for me or for the entirety of the U.K., you are however speaking from the U.K..

2. As for wearing masks every time I leave the house, which I admit is infrequently, I genuinely do. This is advised by every medical expert I have heard to help everyone- including you. I don’t anticipate wearing them for ever but at the moment they are recommended strongly and insisted on in some places. I will continue to wear them as long as the recommendations remain in place. Why do you think Disney has mandated them?

3. I am genuinely sorry if wearing a mask, of any kind, causes you to suffer bacterial infections, that would most certainly impact on my enthusiasm for wearing masks. It is possible to get an exemption from wearing a mask for medical reasons and to my non medical mind it would seem that you may qualify for one. I have absolutely no problem with people who can’t wear masks for legitimate medical reasons. My argument is with individuals who would have no problem with wearing masks but choose not to.

4. I do believe that restrictions should remain in place until we can be certain that the virus will not regain its grip on our society. If that is months away then unfortunately, so be it. Not what I want, but if that is what prevents thousands of deaths per day, which is what we were seeing last month, then I’ll accept it. The government has repeatedly said that this must be the final lockdown so it is imperative that we are as certain as we can be that it is wise and safe to lift restrictions. I do not believe that we will be able to eradicate the virus, nor that we will achieve zero deaths from COVID-19 but we should aim to make it as small a number as possible.

5. You say that our country is dying on its feet. Maybe we are seeing the country from different perspectives, because that is not my viewpoint. My elder son lost his job when furlough finished in August but got a new job within ten days. I feel desperately sorry for businesses who can’t open, for the travel industry and those working in hospitality, amongst many others but the furlough scheme, business rate assistance and the agreed, rather pathetic increase in Universal Credit amongst other support have helped. The predictions from the financial experts for our economy rebounding remain positive and I know they have greater knowledge and experience than I do and with respect probably more than you do either.

6. We agree!! You say that you have read my posts and that I continuously state that things should remain closed until there is no risk. I don’t think that will be possible but I believe that the risk should be as low as possible. Yes 15,000,000 million people have received vaccinations but that means that approximately 50,000,000, including me, are still waiting. Just hold on a little longer till the majority, rather than the minority are vaccinated and then reassess. We both believe opening everything at once would be wrong, 🙂.

7. As for schools, I acknowledge and agree (again!) with all the negative consequences you mentioned for children who are not benefiting from in school learning and socialising. I taught in one of the poorest socio-economic areas in the U.K. so am acutely aware of the “computer “ inequalities.
I am somewhat reassured that children are resilient and once all pupils return to school permanently, rapid progress will be made. I base this on pupils I’ve taught, who were off school for a year or more due to cancer and other long term illnesses. Within about six months they were working at their expected levels. What I think we need to avoid at all costs is the possibility of schools having to close again. The uncertainty is a large part of the stress. This is why I advocate waiting a little longer to open them.

8. You are a teacher, which KS? I am interested that you say Y1 have regressed more than any other year group and would be very interested in seeing any reports or studies on that. This is honestly out of interest and not because I doubt you.

9. I had no intention of angering you by my response but felt I had to reply as many of my opinions are diametrically opposite to yours! That doesn’t make me right or you wrong any more than it makes you right or me wrong.
It just means we both care. At the heart of things we seem to both want the same thing:- a safe return to normal as soon as possible. We just disagree a bit on the timeline.

10. Finally, which I’m sure will be a relief to anyone who’s ploughed through this epic post, my sincere sympathy for the loss of your dear friend.
Also thanks to your sister for her work in the ICU department at Derby hospital, that must be unbelievably stressful and difficult.
Take care, stay safe.

Edit: My apologies for mentioning mask exemption, I hadn’t seen how much grief you’d been given whilst I was typing.

Thank you so much for your considerate reply :) I really am open to any opinion and I appreciate people will be different from me and that is fine - we have a different opinion on acceptable risk and that is okay too. I managed to go on holiday last year, and spend a few wonderful days in Disneyland Paris, and get out as much as I could right up until the 2nd lockdown and spend christmas with my family. We were all careful and isolated ourselves as much as possible beforehand for christmas, and then isolated ourselves after our holiday so please do not think we dont take this seriously.

I am key stage 3/4 - the story I saw was the sky news story. I apologise I said regress whereas I think that shows the most lack of progress' upon returning to school. There levels of attainment are shocking right now - and this is prior to the latest lockdown. I ma of the genuine opinion that there is an argument to have children repeat years - but not sure how this would work down the school pyramid https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...g-during-the-pandemic-study-suggests-12215628

You are totally correct that we both care - I dont want schools all back on 8th march. Primaries and key years yes but not full schools. I just got riled up again when I saw the NEU are canvassing for strike action and pay rises - I just feel it is slightly opportunistic under the circumstances. There online presence is also antagonistic.

And thank you for your condolences, he was a wonderful man and only 47 with no health conditions; his only vulnerability seems to be his ethnic background tbh (and he was a teacher so I am sensitive to the issues surrounding safety). My sister is a star, im so proud of her and what she does.

And haha its one time I genuinely wish I hadn't opened my mouth about masks!! I really didnt mean anything by it except to assure that although I wear them when I have to and dont use an exemption as I dont feel I can - they really do cause me distress

Take care and thanks again for your considered response.
 

lisa12000

Well-Known Member
It’s insane that after so many months, adults are still bickering about a piece of cloth on there faces in order to help against a global pandemic. Cmon man!
I will say for the final time - I have never not worn one, if I don’t want to wear one I don’t go out, I don’t think I’m exempt but the bickering only came from me saying I don’t want to wear one forever and they cause me problems - then I got some really quite hurtful replies
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
I would imagine a private business could do so if they wished. Businesses are allowed to deny customers (see the gay couple and the bakery lawsuit several years ago). It could become as simple as if you wish to fly, either be vaccinated or have evidence of a negative test. Doesn't force you to become vaccinated. Otherwise you are free to either drive or find a carrier who doesn't have such requirements.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
It’s insane that after so many months, adults are still bickering about a piece of cloth on there faces in order to help against a global pandemic. Cmon man!
2 hours from WDW today 30K fans attended a NASCAR race at the Daytona International Speedway today and many in open defiance sat in the grandstands close together mask less. Bicker now, pay the price later.
 

Disney Experience

Well-Known Member
The human mouth is a disgusting place, a human bite is the worst bite to have and we need to cover you the most broadly with antibiotics for a human bite then any animal bite. It doesn’t matter how clean your teeth are.
Komodo dragons are known for a very septic mouth. So much so that they assume their prey will eventually die from the bite.

Bite is not poisonous, rather it is septic.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
The human mouth is a disgusting place, a human bite is the worst bite to have and we need to cover you the most broadly with antibiotics for a human bite then any animal bite. It doesn’t matter how clean your teeth are.

It's a misnomer that a human mouth is more loaded with harmful bacteria than the mouths of other animals.
What animals?
What bacteria?
What people for that matter?
We have this practice of oral hygiene.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if a mandated vaccination would get past the right to privacy precedent set by that famous case which should not be discussed in any way, shape or form in this thread. For the Government to know if you were vaccinated, they would have to violate your right to privacy.

I would think a carrot approach would be the way to go. You get a tax credit if you file proof of vaccination with your tax return. That way, you aren't forced to be vaccinated or forced to give medical information to the Government. If you want the tax credit then you'll get vaccinated and disclose the vaccination.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
2 hours from WDW today 30K fans attended a NASCAR race at the Daytona International Speedway today and many in open defiance sat in the grandstands close together mask less. Bicker now, pay the price later.
It was outdoors. It doesn't get more "well ventilated" than outdoors. Sure if somebody sneezes or coughs in your face then it can be a high risk for transmission outdoors but asymptomatic people talking, yelling or breathing are not going to be high risk of spreading COVID or anything else in an outdoor environment.

Many months ago, there was a Japanese lab that used laser imaging to show droplets and how they build up in a room. They simulated opening two windows and the result was that barely any of the droplets hung around. Being outdoors is going to be far better for ventilation than opening two windows in a room.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
It was outdoors. It doesn't get more "well ventilated" than outdoors. Sure if somebody sneezes or coughs in your face then it can be a high risk for transmission outdoors but asymptomatic people talking, yelling or breathing are not going to be high risk of spreading COVID or anything else in an outdoor environment.

Many months ago, there was a Japanese lab that used laser imaging to show droplets and how they build up in a room. They simulated opening two windows and the result was that barely any of the droplets hung around. Being outdoors is going to be far better for ventilation than opening two windows in a room.
Yeah... no worse than a crowded soccer stadium right? ;)
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Come on man. What Fauci said about masks in March caused a good portion of the anti-mask movement? So you really believe a good portion of the people opposed to masks only came to that conclusion because of “Fauci’s lie”? Do you realize how delusional that sounds? “Fauci’s lie“ was used as a talking point to justify anti-mask sentiment, thats for sure but I don’t believe for a second a single person who is anti-mask would have happily complied to all mask requirements if he never made the statement he made.

Fauci is hated because he stood up to Trump and made him look bad. He was embraced by the anti-Trump crowd as a voice of reason which made him hated by the pro-Trump crowd. Simple politics.

Sorry all i can hear is joe biden...with the come on man in the beginning there.

The studies on “blame Fauci”’clearly indicate that those who do so will find something else to blame and do what they want even if they didn’t blame him.
 

disneycp

Active Member
Oh my goodness I mistakenly said for instead of from and you jump down my throat!

do you genuinely believe in wearing masks every time you step outside your house? I genuinely cannot understand this? And you’re quite prepared to do this forever? Well I’m not I have to say - I wear one within the law but if anyone tells me I have to wear one everytime I step outside my house they can go swivel! Every time I wear one more than 30 mins odd I get bacterial throat infections and I’ve tried every single mask there is!

So you are saying that boris shouldn’t release any restrictions until we have definite proof? No matter that that could be months? I’m sorry that’s just plain wrong - our country is dying on its feet, the economy is through the floor! You do that and there will be absolutely no returning from it. I’ve seen your posts consistently and you seem to advocate a position so far to the extreme of not opening up anything at all until there’s no risk - for me that’s as bad as the other side of throw everything open at once which is as much wrong

as for your remarks about teaching and teachers - our children need school; not online zoom classes where there is no engagement from students, where students disappear in lessons, where children have had to mute themselves and some have to leave because there parents are arguing downstairs abs they’re embarrassed, that have poor internet connection or laptops that are struggling, of little children who really struggle to cope with online learning. Did you know that for primary schools many are asking parents to be in the lesson with them - that’s primary teachers not only doing their lessons to 30 children but also all their parents as well! It is not sustainable in the long term - children in year 1 have regressed the most out of all the year groups, our year 13s will get qualifications that they’ve had no formal assessment on, even those taking btecs with modular exams - there is talk of no exams next year already! That will mean year 11s last year will have lost their GCSEs and their a level assessments - and will be expected to go on to university without skills! This is a crisis! Exam system has collapsed! Integrity of qualifications has gone!

don’t talk to me about teachers and how stressed they are! Guess what I am one! I know the stress every single day and I am still absolutely disgusted by the unions as are many of not all of my colleagues

I don’t often get angry on any forum but your replies to me make me angry - I’m not covid denier, my most wonderful friend died of it back last April, my sister works in an ICU ward in derby but the harm that your proposing by suggesting no opening up potentially for many more months is huge

(apologies to everyone else for this rant)

I love you for this post. Sorry some people on here thought it would be appropriate to say you probably don’t brush your teeth because you have issues wearing a mask?? Some of the folks on here can be pretty nasty if you disagree with them...

The mask wearing issue has become an argument that goes too far on both sides. I wear a mask every time I leave my house but I don’t like doing it and I find it annoying. But if you so much as mention that to some people, you’ll get a ton of comments saying “why are you such a baby that you can’t wear a piece of cloth over your face!!” Uhhh I do wear it...? Not sure why some people get so angry when others say masks are less than appealing. I’m not going to pretend I love masks and want to wear one for the rest of my life just so I can virtue signal and pat myself on the back
 

Chi84

Premium Member
I love you for this post. Sorry some people on here thought it would be appropriate to say you probably don’t brush your teeth because you have issues wearing a mask?? Some of the folks on here can be pretty nasty if you disagree with them...

The mask wearing issue has become an argument that goes too far on both sides. I wear a mask every time I leave my house but I don’t like doing it and I find it annoying. But if you so much as mention that to some people, you’ll get a ton of comments saying “why are you such a baby that you can’t wear a piece of cloth over your face!!” Uhhh I do wear it...? Not sure why some people get so angry when others say masks are less than appealing. I’m not going to pretend I love masks and want to wear one for the rest of my life just so I can virtue signal and pat myself on the back
I don't get it either. Maybe it's a control thing. People are terrified that if they acknowledge any possible difficulty associated with mask-wearing, others will use it as an excuse not to wear them? The people I know all hate masks but wear them because it's the right thing to do. But that doesn't seem to be enough here - you have to also agree it's "no problem."
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
It was outdoors. It doesn't get more "well ventilated" than outdoors. Sure if somebody sneezes or coughs in your face then it can be a high risk for transmission outdoors but asymptomatic people talking, yelling or breathing are not going to be high risk of spreading COVID or anything else in an outdoor environment.

Many months ago, there was a Japanese lab that used laser imaging to show droplets and how they build up in a room. They simulated opening two windows and the result was that barely any of the droplets hung around. Being outdoors is going to be far better for ventilation than opening two windows in a room.
Your argument " outdoors, well ventilated " would not fly in Disney theme parks regarding a reason mask wearing. Daytona NASCAR just did a poor job enforcing
 
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JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Your argument " outdoors, well ventilated " would not fly in Disney theme parks regarding a reason mask wearing. Daytona NASCAR just did a poor job enforcing but then again look at the general customer base of the sport.
Nascar limited the attendance to 25% of capacity. Normally there would be 100,000+ in attendance. It was outside (yeah people still go to bathrooms and restaurants while there) so they covered themselves. Lay the blame on the people that just don't care about covid or others and decided seeing cars go round and round til they crash it worth the risk, those are the bad guys here. Too big a windmill for me though.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
It's a misnomer that a human mouth is more loaded with harmful bacteria than the mouths of other animals.
What animals?
What bacteria?
What people for that matter?
We have this practice of oral hygiene.
It is not a misnomer. Human bites that break the skin are almost always infected. Of the three most common bites we treat in the medical field, dog bites are the "cleanest", followed by cats, then human.

EDIT: And this has nothing to do with good or bad oral hygiene practices, it's simply the reality of the commensal oral bacteria that we live with.
 
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